Why are there so many atheists here?

[wgreen]

I am curious as to why the atheists spend so much time here arguing with Christians?

Is it because you feel you are doing a service to society in combatting the "opiate of the masses?"

Is it because you feel anger or hatred toward Christians and their God (many atheist posts come across as hostile--not that the Christians are not often hostile as well)?

If not, why is it?

Thanks,

Bill Green

[McCulloch]

I am an atheist and I've been here a while. This site is welcoming to persons of many different points of view, that's one thing that makes it interesting.
This is a place for Atheists to debate Christians AND a place for Christians to debate other Christians.

I personally find it interesting to see the Christians debate other Christians. I seems incredible to me that those who claim to have the wisdom given to them miraculously from the Creator God, cannot agree among themselves.

[kctheshootinfool]

"Christian debate" really should not involve atheists at all, so that Christians could argue amongst themselves about religious differences, interpretations, etc, without interruption.

This site was not set up with that purpose. There are plenty of other sites where debates are only among Christians. But, the purpose of this site is to debate Christianity among people of any belief system. Actually, I don't find it too interesting to debate other Christians about theological nuances. But, it's much more exciting to debate those who have a completely different viewpoint than I do.

I understand this is not that type of site, I was just pointing out why I think the post originator might have been surprised about all the 'atheists' in a 'christian debate forum'. Like I said, I thought the same thing at first, until I got more involved.

[Vladd44]

I know atheists dont like to acknowledge this, but this country was in fact discovered and founded by God-fearing people, and our Constitution and laws based on biblical principles.

Not sure what gives you that idea. I don't know who spefically you are talking about, so I figured I would run down a few.

George Washington - First President and General of the Continental Army during Revolutionary War.

Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.

He never professed any belief in Christianity, also supported John Murray a universalist as chaplain in military in spite of objections to his lack of belief in a hell. Had no priest or minister present at time of death.

John Adams - Second president. Religion: Unitarian

Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?

God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Thomas Jefferson - Third President.

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

James Madison - 4th President.

The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity.

Benjamin Franklin - Diplomat, Inventor and Overall Gadfly.

I conceive, then, that the Infinite has created many beings or gods vastly superior to man.

It may be these created gods are immortals; or it may be that after many ages, they are changed, and others supply their places.

Some volumes against Deism fell into my hands. They were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle’s Lecture. It happened that they produced on me an effect precisely the reverse of what was intended by the writers; for the arguments of the Deists, which were cited in order to be refuted, appealed to me much more forcibly than the refutation itself. In a word, I soon became a thorough Deist.

Thomas Paine - Revolutionary and Author.

The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion. It has been the most destructive to the peace of man since man began to exist. Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses, who gave an order to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and then rape the daughters. One of the most horrible atrocities found in the literature of any nation. I would not dishonor my Creator's name by attaching it to this filthy book.

I will not bother going further. But the vast majority of the Founders of the United States were deist, not christian.

[kctheshootinfool]

Not sure what gives you that idea. I don't know who spefically you are talking about, so I figured I would run down a few.

I don't (and can't) dispute these...I have seen similar quotes before. Washington, for the record, declared himself an episcopalian (certainly Martha was, anyway).

The declaration of independence, however, while it does not reference any particular religion, does reference God and man's creator:

WHEN, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's GOD entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the Causes which impel them to the Separation.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their CREATOR, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

The authors acknowledged that 'a God' or 'a creator' was at the root of our basic human freedoms (and at the root of nature, itself). Also, while the authors of the declaration and the founding fathers themselves may not have required it of there own personal beliefs, the introduction of the phrase 'In God we trust' was due to pressure from the people to include God in the new nation's documents and currency.

So one thing was evident during the formative years of the US: Religion was important to enough people to guide the actions of the nation's leaders of the time.

This was not the point of this thread, so I dont intend to divert, but my only point in bringing up the religious basis of the country was that I feel the actions of the non-religious of today are excessive, unnecessary, and unfair to certain groups (Christianity and Judaism in particular). There is no need to send kids home from school because their shirts make a reference to God, or to force companies to take down their christmas trees, etc. And it's absurdly unfair for some public venues to disallow Christian or Jewish symbols, but to allow muslim symbols or Kwanzaa symbols. Political correctness? Gimme a break! That's discrimination, plain and simple.

Religious or not, I CANNOT IMAGINE that this type of petty, spiteful behavior is what the signers of the declaration and constitution had in mind.

[ENIGMA]

Also, while the authors of the declaration and the founding fathers themselves may not have required it of there own personal beliefs, the introduction of the phrase 'In God we trust' was due to pressure from the people to include God in the new nation's documents and currency.

The founders were long dead and buried before "In God We Trust" was printed on the currency. As were their grandchildren.

The original motto "E Pluribus Unum" is still on the currency, and is a good motto, except few can be bothered nowadays to work out what it means.

[bernee51]

Also, while the authors of the declaration and the founding fathers themselves may not have required it of there own personal beliefs, the introduction of the phrase 'In God we trust' was due to pressure from the people to include God in the new nation's documents and currency.

So the USof A was a 'new nation' in the 1950's. That explains a lot.

[otseng]

The faith of the founding fathers is certainly an interesting subject. I'd suggest creating a separte debate thread for this topic.

[Vladd44]

Never tried to imply they were atheists. Just that they were no christian.

From their perspective of deism it seemed to me that their god was more nature than some interfering old man.

[Joe]

I am curious as to why the atheists spend so much time here arguing with Christians?
I spend much of my time searching for new scientific and archaeological findings, progress being made towards proving or disproving theories of evolution, and information related to mathematics and statistics. Often when doing a search I am presented with numerous web sites that are no more than a religious attempt to reduce the validity of a scientific finding or theory. As evolution is one area of interest I encounter many religious sites and often their disproofs are totally unacceptable. I am often directed to a passage in the bible which I will refer to and study. I have no desire or need to argue with anyone with religious beliefs as it is each individuals right to believe what he/she wishes. Religion is also a side interest as it is something that occured early during the development of the human species so cannot be ignored. Often I am presented with stories from the Bible which upon investigation I sometimes find were stories that existed prior to the bible and christianity and had roots in a so called pagan religion and with minor changes became embedded into the one God philosophy. I do enjoy hearing others views and beliefs on religion and accept their views and don't attempt to destroy them. A conversation between persons who think differently is a way of gaining more understanding of people which is helpful in allowing us to live peacefully with one another. My parents are very religious, and constantly try to make a believer out of me, which I feel is a waste of their time but I read what they send me and share my response with them, not in an arguemental way but just to let them know why I believe the way I do. I have friends woth religious and non religious, and often feel I have to keep to myself the fact I am not a believer when speaking with my religious friends. I guess that might be an indicator of what keeps all humans from interacting peacefully with one another. We, humans, seem to find strength in numbers and congregate with others who are most like us. We find things such as race, religion, nationality, language, education, wealth, appearance, and numerous others as a means of determining who we should associate with. I on the other hand find that by throwing those things to the wind I have a more diverse group of friends and am able to glean more understanding from those who are different from me than those who are more similar to me. Why would one want to go to a school where the teachers shared the same amount of knowledge that you possessed? What could you learn? All you could do would be to re-enforce what you thought was true.
So if you have something to share with me, I'll listen. I only request the same courtesy, and if you find something you can prove is in error I'll listen and if I can determine you are correct I will change my view. But I always investigate what I am told and you should do the same with anything I say. Communications is the primary source of learning.

[Deuce]

Hi, this seemed like a good spot for my first post. I was wondering what category I fit into. Deist seems to be right for me and it looks like I'm in good company too. I just think religion should be personal and has no need to be organized.

As for the OP I think there are 2 reasons:
1. Try to convince someone your side is right.
2. Trying to feel superior to those who belive something you don't.

Deuce.