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Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:05 pm
by DanieltheDragon
I have read the bible up and down left and right. There are lots of things about abominations etc etc. What it doesn't say though is whether or not non-believers can have gay marriage. In fact the laws and commandments in the bible are specifically for the Jews. Jesus opened that up and through Paul's doctrine that became inclusive of the gentiles(those who were believers).
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Can anyone find a verse saying that non-believers cannot have gay marriage?
Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:53 pm
by bluethread
DanieltheDragon wrote:
I have read the bible up and down left and right. There are lots of things about abominations etc etc. What it doesn't say though is whether or not non-believers can have gay marriage. In fact the laws and commandments in the bible are specifically for the Jews. Jesus opened that up and through Paul's doctrine that became inclusive of the gentiles(those who were believers).
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Can anyone find a verse saying that non-believers cannot have gay marriage?
As long as one is not living in a Torah submissive community, they can do whatever they want. Of course, Adonai may choose to judge them for it.
Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:22 pm
by KCKID
DanieltheDragon wrote:
I have read the bible up and down left and right. There are lots of things about abominations etc etc. What it doesn't say though is whether or not non-believers can have gay marriage. In fact the laws and commandments in the bible are specifically for the Jews. Jesus opened that up and through Paul's doctrine that became inclusive of the gentiles(those who were believers).
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
The Bible doesn't appear to "outlaw" gay marriage period . . .
DanieltheDragon wrote:Can anyone find a verse saying that non-believers cannot have gay marriage?
Again, there doesn't appear to be a Bible verse stating that gay marriage is "outlawed" whether one is a believer or not.
Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:26 pm
by KCKID
bluethread wrote:
DanieltheDragon wrote:
I have read the bible up and down left and right. There are lots of things about abominations etc etc. What it doesn't say though is whether or not non-believers can have gay marriage. In fact the laws and commandments in the bible are specifically for the Jews. Jesus opened that up and through Paul's doctrine that became inclusive of the gentiles(those who were believers).
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Can anyone find a verse saying that non-believers cannot have gay marriage?
As long as one is not living in a Torah submissive community, they can do whatever they want. Of course, Adonai may choose to judge them for it.
So, are you saying that in order for one to make sure that they avoid Adonai's judgment they should be submissive to the Torah?
Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:36 am
by 99percentatheism
bluethread
DanieltheDragon wrote:
I have read the bible up and down left and right. There are lots of things about abominations etc etc. What it doesn't say though is whether or not non-believers can have gay marriage. In fact the laws and commandments in the bible are specifically for the Jews. Jesus opened that up and through Paul's doctrine that became inclusive of the gentiles(those who were believers).
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Can anyone find a verse saying that non-believers cannot have gay marriage?
As long as one is not living in a Torah submissive community, they can do whatever they want. Of course, Adonai may choose to judge them for it.
Although the term "Torah submissive community" is a fascinating one, your view here seems quite accurate. "Pagans" and/or "the world and its ways" are/is free to follow their behaviors where they will inevitably lead them.
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:02 pm
by Haven
The Bible has no relevance to any non-believer, on marriage for gay people or any other issue.
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:53 pm
by bluethread
KCKID wrote:
bluethread wrote:
As long as one is not living in a Torah submissive community, they can do whatever they want. Of course, Adonai may choose to judge them for it.
So, are you saying that in order for one to make sure that they avoid Adonai's judgment they should be submissive to the Torah?
No one avoids Adonai's judgment, in my opinion. That said, the purpose of HaTorah to give directions regarding how Adonai's people are to live. Some of those directions are generally good advise for all humans, some are for establishing a Torah submissive community and others commemorative to reinforce general principles. If one is not in or part of a Torah submissive community, then that society has no authority to enforce anything on that person on that basis. That community can take part in whatever governmental system to get Torah and rabbinic practices enacted into law, but that is general politics, not Torah.
Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:14 am
by Wordleymaster1
[qu[
Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]
ote]So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
[/quote] If you're a non-believer why would it matter? Why would a non-believer care for themselves what the bible says about anything? Just curious
Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:08 am
by Wordleymaster1
Wordleymaster1 wrote:Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
If you're a non-believer why would it matter? Why would a non-believer care for themselves what the bible says about anything? Just curious
Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:03 pm
by shnarkle
DanieltheDragon wrote:
I have read the bible up and down left and right. There are lots of things about abominations etc etc. What it doesn't say though is whether or not non-believers can have gay marriage. In fact the laws and commandments in the bible are specifically for the Jews. Jesus opened that up and through Paul's doctrine that became inclusive of the gentiles(those who were believers).
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Can anyone find a verse saying that non-believers cannot have gay marriage?
The bible doesn't say anything about gay marriage probably due to the fact that it didn't exist back then. Of course back then they also knew that marriage was for the expressed purpose of sanctioning reproduction as the primary means of building strong families, communities, etc. They would have looked upon this idea as a glaring oxymoron. It would be like asking if the bible outlaws or says one can have a square circle. The word means "to impregnate" which is impossible for gay people to do within the context of a gay relationship.
For the most part, the bible seems to be perfectly content to let unbelievers do whatever they want to. It seems to explicitly state that believers are to let unbelievers do whatever they want to. Paul is especially vocal about this. He points out the hypocrisy of those who want to beat people over the head with the law. He shows that no one is perfect so no one has the right to tell others to keep this or that law when they can't keep them either. He also points out that God has left them to their own devices so they should do the same.