[
Replying to shnarkle]
In our post modern culture words like "wrong" or "immoral" have no meaning.
Ha, ha, ha . . . maybe to you and if being totally honest probably not even you. All men can know rape is wrong/immoral. It’s a bit amusing when post modern man pretends he is “above� labels like right/wrong/moral. Morality is something all men can know and typically live their daily lives accordingly.
The bible simply displays options that result in things like blessings or curses. This is pervasive throughout the bible.
Perhaps you are a bit confused. Something isn’t right or wrong/good or bad simply because the Bible says it’s right/wrong. Rather, the Bible says something is right/wrong because it is. IOW, murder isn’t wrong because in the Bible it says, “Thou shall not kill�, rather the reason the Bible says, “Thou shall not kill� is because it is wrong to kill.
same sex acts don't necessarily need to be conflated with same sex marriage.
There is absolutely no evidence to conclude same sex marriage is condoned in the Bible. To do so would be reading what is not there.
Nonbelievers are always free to do as they please. They are also free to be wrong.
Not really. There is nothing a nonbeliever can do to be saved or be right in God's eyes.
Huh? Jesus Christ dined with non believers. Scripture is full of examples of Christ speaking with and giving dignity to those who were not His followers.
They are not free to be right or wrong. Their standards of right and wrong are irrelevant to God.
Incorrect. God created the world with its natural laws, which determine right/wrong. A non believer can do that which is good and right and a believer can do that which is wrong/bad. Scripture tells us good can be found outside of Christ’s followers. “Those who are not against us . . . “
Paul goes into great detail in his letter to the Romans on why nonbelievers are effectively incapable of making a bad decision because they're all ultimately bad decisions.
Yes and no. You don’t get it. Again, one can find good outside of the Church and we ought to always encourage and acknowledge when we see good. Perhaps with just a twitch upon the thread, God can bring a person back again.
free will isn't the deciding factor in God's plans, e.g. "not by will or effort, but by God Who shows mercy...etc."
God does not change wolves into sheep, or tares into wheat according to the desire or will of wolves and tares.
Of course He does BECAUSE He is merciful.
Quote:
"24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:... For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men...etc."
Quote:
Yes, this passage confirms God’s disapproval of same sex unions with words like dishonor and unnatural.
You're reading that into the text.
What are you talking about? Those words are in the text.
I take out the trash, but I don't disapprove of the trash. I have no ill will towards the trash.
Of course you do. You take it out because you know if you don’t in 3 days it’s really going to stink. Taking out the trash is rejecting the trash!
When I pick some vegetables from the garden and grab one that is beginning to rot, I toss it to the chickens, and while I may be disappointed that I didn't get it sooner, I don't disapprove of the tomato for being overly ripe.
Throwing out the rotten fruit is showing disapproval for rotten fruit. You are saying you refuse to eat rotten fruit and you want no part of it.
This presupposes that they are his to begin with.
Yes it does. Because His desire is that we all be His children.
I can see how you came to your conclusions with the words "gave them up", however in the broader scheme of things we already know that they were never God's to begin with.
Not what I see . . .
“For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.� –Romans 11:36
“The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.� -2 Peter 3:9
“But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.� –Romans 5:8
“But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness.� –Psalm 86:15
“Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.� 1 John 4:7-8
“But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—“ –Ephesians 2:4-5
“We love because he first loved us.� -1 John 4:19
“Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.� –Ezekial 18:4
The bible doesn't outlaw murder for nonbelievers. God's laws aren't directed at nonbelievers in the first place. Their adherence to the law is of no concern to God.
This is what you don’t get. Truth is truth. That doesn’t simply apply to believers. If something is right/wrong, it is right/wrong for all. God created all of us and this world we live in. We can know right from wrong based on the world we live in. This is what you call Natural Law. So again, something isn’t wrong because the Bible says it is wrong. Rather the Bible says it is wrong because the Bible cannot contradict the natural laws that govern us.
The worst thing one can do is to disbelieve God
Actually, the worst thing a person can do is to continue to disbelieve in God. And a bad thing to also do is to disbelieve in God’s love and mercy – a mercy that is big enough to melt away disbelief.