Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Jagella
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Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Post #1

Post by Jagella »

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

I was inspired to broach this topic after reading a column in the January 2020 issue of Scientific American. The column written by the editors is entitled Time's Up for "Anti-Gay Therapy." According to those editors:
Although medical and psychological associations have asked explicitly that Congress and state governments ban anti-gay conversion (by Christians), there has been a backlash from (Christian) groups like the Liberty Council, which promotes "evangelical values."
The column condemns the "detestable practice" of the attempt by many Christians to alter a person's homosexuality because the practice does "irreparable harm" to people. Forty-two percent of a subgroup who have had this "therapy" inflicted on them have committed suicide.

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Re: Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Post #51

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to post 32 by Jagella]
What's wrong with worshiping "other things"?
I consider worship to be one of the most pointless activities ever devised by human beings. Any being who demands or responds to acts of worship is not worthy of it anyway.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Post #52

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to post 38 by JehovahsWitness]
Are you aware that dietary laws were part of the Mosaic law that was not imposed on Christians but that homosexual acts are condemned in "new Testament" and regarded by many as Christian law?
Where in the NT are homosexual acts condemned? Does not the NT have Jesus condemning divorce as adultery? Why so much focus on one but not the other?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Post #53

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to post 39 by otseng]
I'm against divorce and premarital sex also, but those are not outlawed.
I have trouble understanding what people see is morally wrong with any of these practices. There are far more serious issues in the world to worry about than which people are having sex with each other.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Post #54

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to post 48 by otseng]
Do you mean why do I disapprove of homosexual sex? Well, the Bible condemns it so I don't approve of it.
The trouble with that, for me, is that the Bible doesn't explain why. When I was a teacher, we considered that the rules we set for student behaviour should have valid reasons behind them. Why make up rules and prohibitions without valid justification. Mere whims on the part of the authority behind any rules is not valid justification, even if it is allegedly God.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Post #55

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jagella wrote:
Two of my brothers are gay. I don't think it would be "moral excellence" for them to be put to death.

Relatives of criminals rarely support the execution of their family members and that irrespective of whether they merit the punishment. I'm not suggesting your brothers are criminals, (I know of few countries that have criminalized mere sexual orientation), my point us that the emotional involvement often overides rationale thinking. Whether one judges something as "morally excellent" is of course subjective, I have simply shared my personal view on biblical law.

JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Romans 14:8

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Post #56

Post by JehovahsWitness »

brunumb wrote: The trouble with that, for me, is that the Bible doesn't explain why.

WHAT REASONS ARE PRESENTED FOR THE BIBLES PROHIBITION ON HOMOSEXUAL ACTS?

Firstly it should be pointed out that obedience to a mandate is not subject to explanation. For example, a law against driving over 50mph in an urban area does not have to include reasons. Indeed it is unlikely that someone stopped for speeding would say use lack of explanation as a defence for his actions...
"The thing is Officer, since the sign simply stated the speed limit but didn't explain WHY.... I ignored it. You do understand don't you?" The offender would still get his due, in this case a ticket or in a more serious case where he hurt or injured someone, possibly jail time
Discussions and reasons are for the legislators and the law is not obliged to include their debate. Since The Almighty is biblically, the divine "legislator" He is not obliged to give a reason for his decisions. In the absence of (or even in concurrence with) such deliberations being publically available for scrutiny, most laws contain an "internal logic", an evident reason d'etre, which would permit anyone with a minimal amount of critical thinking skills to figure out (If I speed I might hurt myself and others). That said, the God of the bible, out of kindness more often than not does indeed explain why he has prohibited a particular action.


THE MOSAIC LAW
LEVITICUS 20:13

“If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.
The prohibition on certain sexual behaviours were often preceded or followed in the Hebrew scriptures by the following justification.

LEVITICUS 20:22-26 -NWT

You must keep all my statutes and all my judicial decisions and carry them out, so [1] that the land where I am bringing you to dwell will not vomit you out. You must not walk in the statutes of the nations that I am driving out from before you; for [2] they have done all these things and I abhor them [...] [3] You must be holy to me, because I, Jehovah, am holy, and I am setting you apart from the peoples to become mine"
So the reasons presented are as follows
# 1 So they are permitted to keep their territorial possession

# 2 To stand different and apart from the pagan nations that God hated

# 3 To be fully consecrated to Him (Jehovah) as his people

# 1 So they are permitted to keep their territorial possession The ancient nation of Israel, many of whom were the natural born descendants of Abraham where given their land by God on the condition that they obeyed his (Gods laws). Failure to do so would result in Him removing his protection of them, and, small as they were as a people, this would inevitable result in tneir military defeat and loss of heritage. Their respect for Gods law on sexual behaviour literally meant their survival as a people.

# 2 To stand different and apart from the pagan nations that God hated The nation's that originally inhabited said territories were characterised by the base moral conditions, sex worship, prostitution, bestiality, incest, child sacrifice, to name a just a few of the practices that were common amongst these people. God had marked these people off for destruction not least because of such behaviours and His own people were not to adopt them for fear of being viewed by God in the same way. Which would lead to point #1 (see above)

# 3 To be fully consecrated to Him (Jehovah) as His people. The Israelites had agreed as a nation to keep Gods laws and were expected to keep to their word. This was important not only because it would ensure the preservation of their nations from external forces (see point #1 and #2) but would prevent social and moral breakdown from within.

NOTE The nation's of were set apart for the special honor of producing the Messiah, who would lead all mankind to salvation. It would be impossible to identfy this one through his bloodline in a nation overtaken by immoral sexual behaviour. Further in a limited period there would be a need to teach that nation a higher mode of thinking that would be beyond the grasp of a people not yet separated from degrades sexual behaviours. It was for this reason, the Prophet John the Baptise was sent as a forerunner to the Christ, since while not being totally degraded, the nation had strayed from strict adherence to the law.

WHY DOES GOD PROHIBIT DEVIANT* SEXUAL BEHAVIOURS?

*deviant from the norm/ majority

The Mosaic law is no longer in force but God still abhors sexually deviant behaviours (including but not limited to homosexual acts) . The Apostle Paul explained why saying:
1 CORINTHIANS 6:18
every other sin that a man may commit is outside his body, but he that practices fornication is sinning against his own body
This is not to say sexual immorality (including homosexual acts such as oral or anal sex) are worse than other sins, but that they carry particular physical, emotional and spiritual consequences that are harmful to the one practising such things as well as others. Things such as veneral diseases, family breakdown, unwanted pregnancies, abortions and/or feelings of shame and degradation... represent repercussions for the person himself can be serious. God's word warns us against these things for our own good.
CONCLUSION God is not obliged to explain why he prohibits certain sexual behaviours. He made the human body including its sexual organs and has the right to say what we do or do not do with it. That said the bible does contain reasons why homosexual acts were and are prohibited namely (for the Israelites) for the preservation of their nations and for Christians to avoid the negative consequences of such actions.
JEHOVAHS WITNESS



RELATED POSTS
WHY does God prohibit homosexual acts? [this post]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 94#p994394

Is there a difference between prohibiting homosexuals and prohibiting homosexual ACTS?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 40#p994140

Should Christians repudiate the biblical laws calling for the execution of those guilty of performing homosexual acts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p994278

What bible principles are violated by anal or cunnilingus/oral sex?
viewtopic.php?p=1016856#p1016856

Does the bible advocate celibacy?
viewtopic.php?p=1058174#p1058174

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:02 am, edited 5 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #57

Post by Menotu »

[Replying to post 55 by JehovahsWitness]

Do you mean ALL biblical law or only some?
Curious as to if you're pickin'-n-chosin' like so many do when it fits their lifestyle.

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Post #58

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Menotu wrote: [Replying to post 55 by JehovahsWitness]

Do you mean ALL biblical law or only some?

Which reference are you speaking about. Perhaps you can use the quote button (look on the top right hand corner of every post you will see a speech tiny bubble with "quote" next to it, click on that and the persons words will appear in your post. You have but to delete what is not relevant to your question and then I can see what specifically you are referring to when you ask "do you mean ...?").


Thanks,


JW
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Post #59

Post by JehovahsWitness »

brunumb wrote:
Where in the NT are homosexual acts condemned?
ROMANS1:26, 27

That is why God gave them over to disgraceful sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.
1 TIMOTHY 1:9-11
... law is made, not for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, ungodly and sinners, disloyal* and profane, murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, manslayers, 10 sexually immoral people, men who practice homosexuality, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and everything else that is in opposition to the wholesome teaching
JUDE God (Compare Leviticus 20:13.)
Jude 7 - NWT RB
“Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. The name Sodom has become the basis for the word "sodomy" which usually designates a homosexual practice)
1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10
Those who are sexually immoral,idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God's Kingdom.
JESUS
...out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings: sexual immorality*, thefts, murders, 22 acts of adultery.


* NOTE: The Greek word for "sexual immorality" is a broader term than that for adultery. It describes all forms of sexual relations outside lawful marriage, including homosexuality.






JEHOVAHS WITNESS


FURTHER READING What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102016128
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #60

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to post 56 by JehovahsWitness]
For example, a law against driving over 50mph in an urban area does not have to include reasons.
Such laws were not just plucked out of the air. There were reasons for setting speed limits and even more to decide which limits applied in different locations.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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