The Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

The Gay Denomination.

For those people that desire same gender sexual behavior or thoughts, AND that claim to be a Christian and claim that their beliefs and theology can fit the New Testament witness, instead of waging an endless, fruitless and vicious war on other Christians - that will NEVER accept their gay doctrines and dogmas . . ., - why won't they just declare a new and alternative denomination, just like Watch Tower theological adherants and Mormons?

Why the need to join forces with anti-Christian and secularist movements to attack "Bible believing" Christians?

Afterall, in referencing the New Testament, there is no justifiable comparison of sex acts to being a slave (slavery), or the charge of bigotry and hatefulness in holding that marriage is a man and a woman.

Why not just start an "Out and Proud" Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

KCKID
This is a long thread and some of us have been participating in it for months. Others have come and gone over the months - as happens - and I feel that most have simply 'had enough' and have therefore chosen to drop out. I don't blame them as I've been tempted several times to throw up my hands in frustration while attempting to get into the mind of the OP.

You continue to try to make "me" the subject of your tactics. Ad hom is a weak champion KID. OK so be it:

50,000-plus views shows that the subject concerns quite a lot of people. That many, many stay on the sidelines, I can attest to and testify about, is not a bad choice. The pro gay pride side plays with nasty tactics. How many personal insults have you bashed me with KID? The standard character assassination can crush many a sweet person. I am a student of histoty and reality so it comes as nothing queer to me to expect the slings and arrows of an adversary.

(Now check it out, how many people will rush to accuse the usage of the word "queer" with a modern charge? See my point KID? It is not the conservative position that comes from an academic washer and dryer.

Ad hominem is a standard experience via the modern Alinsky technique turned toward a Christian these days.

I, personally, have been astounded how this thread has introduced me to people and places that are so diverse and so wide ranging and so, so supportive. And so enlightening of history and sound morality. I have been recharged that the future is not as dark as the debate makes it seem. Nature will not be mocked. I don't hide in the dark, nor should I.

Something that I haven't yet asked 99percentatheism is this: Do you, 99percent, believe homosexuality to be a mental illness that can be healed?

I was listed in the DSM before "politcal correctness" entered the medical field.

I guess you're aware that The American Psychological Association (APA), the world's largest association of psychologists, has stated that: “Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and the APA opposes all portrayals of lesbian, gay and bisexual people as mentally ill and in need of treatment due to their sexual orientation.�

My "opinion" of the psychology business is something I would only discuss in a PM. Needless to pontificate, the secular world is becoming more and more depraved and mentally diseased. This after the APA has taken control of our populace. You may not be aware that a psychologist decides who is mentally healthy right? How convenient is that to the bottomline of paying a mortgage right?

You may not know this (and I'd bet my house you don't) but psyche originally meant soul.

Hint, hint.

I do believe, due to your past remarks, that you don't much approve of the APA's findings. So, 99percent, do YOU believe homosexuality to be a mental illness or not?

I am not a psychologist. So your attempt and tactic here is out of bounds to try to corral me into.

Homosexuality is a behavior is it not KID? A choice behavior. Is it not KID?

This is a 'yes' or 'no' answer although I would appreciate further clarification with regard to your answer. If 'yes', then what would you propose can be done to rectify or to alleviate the illness? Bombard their mind with biblical 'clobber' texts and lengthy diatribe telling them that their illness, if not cured, will ultimately lead them to hell?

I am a Bible affirming Christian. Homosexual acts are choice behaviors. As is the adultery you accuse the divorced and remarried of engaging in.

Start another thread if you want to try to trap me into some diagnosis as a psychologist. All I know is causwe and effect. Where psychology takes command of the populace, trouble follows.

26 dead in a Elementarty school trouble. Our populace is becoming more and more mentally ill isn't it KID? And WHO do we go to decide that? The APA and whatever its equal is ijn Australia for your guys down under right?

If 'no', then what DO you believe 'a homosexual' to be exactly?

Though nausea and its resulting behavior follows any concerted inquiry I entertain where psychology rules a group or individual, "I" believe a homosexual is a person that is attracted to members of the same sex and acts out on that attraction. Like I have defined over and over again, a person is not a Bank Robber for thinking about robbing banks. They are a bank robber when they are convicted of having robber a bank.

Although Jesus judges the thoughts of us all, I am not God. He is. I can only decide what to do with and about actions.

Is he (let's keep it male) simply a 'failed' heterosexual that doesn't 'have the balls' to 'be a man' and therefore avoids intimate relations with the opposite sex?

How intersting that you reference testicles (balls).

You do realize that testicles testify against any and all pro homosexual and pro homosexuality argument?

Testicles are not "designed" by nature for rectums and throats. Not even in psychology.

By now you know I don't shrinki away from slang.

If so, then why would that affect you in the way that you obviously are affected? Should not you, a professed Christian, instead show compassion for those who are not as strong as they might be?

Is this not what Jesus would do?

Guilty as you charge. Except, YOU and your side . . . charge me a professed Christian, with hatred, bigotry, bullying, and homophobia for doing as Christ teaches.

Would you, 99percent, at the earliest opportunity tell me/us exactly what YOU believe a homosexual to be?

A human being.(That was as fats as I could answer.)

Unless of course its one of those gay penguins in a european zoo. They are penguins.

It's one thing to suggest that a specific group of people start their own denomination but it's another to demean such people without really explaining why.

I probably have more than a hundred posts in this thread and I point our that it is YOUR CHARGE that I have demeaned people.

So, again, 1) what do YOU believe a homosexual to be ...mentally ill? 2)a 'failed' heterosexual? 3) a 'devious' heterosexual whose role in life is to p--s off Christians? 4)...or are they simply who they are through no choice of their own? 5)I await your response 6)and, as I always request ...please keep it simple.

I edited and numbered your requests to accomodate your simplicity request:

1) No.
2) Only if anatomy shows this to be a fact. (science is important to Christians like me. Especially darwinian evolution which wholly supports Christian marriage.)
3) Sometimes. Current events seems to bear this out.
4) No. Simply? Anatomically, homosexuality has no support group.
5) I believe that fully. Due to facts.
6) That's laughable.

[99percentatheism]

Back to the topic ...there is no need for a specific 'Gay Denomination' here in Australia since an increasing number of churches are opening their doors to both gays and straights. While there could be more, below are a list of 50 "Welcoming Gay Friendly Churches."

Integrity Adelaide Adelaide Anglican
Ashfield Parish Mission Ashfield Uniting Church
Burdekin Uniting Church Ayr Qld Uniting Church
Balmain United Church Balmain Uniting Church
Blackwood Uniting Church Blackwood, Adelaide Uniting Church
Bondi Beach, Chapel By The Sea Bondi Beach Uniting Church
St. John’s Anglican Cathedral Brisbane, Queensland Anglican
MCC Brisbane Brisbane, Queensland MCC
New Way Community Chapel Brisbane, Queensland Non-denominational
Brunswick Baptist Church Brunswick Baptist
Canberra Baptist Church Canberra City Baptist
Canberra City Uniting Church Canberra City Uniting Church
Church of the Trinity Clarence Park Uniting Church
Community Church of St. Mark Clifton Hill Baptist
St. James’ Congregation Curtin, Canberra Uniting Church
Christ Church Anglican Cathedral Darwin Anglican
United Ecumenical Catholic Church Dundas Valley Ecumenical Catholic Church
Yilki Uniting Church Encounter Bay Uniting Church
St. Chad’s Anglican Church Fullarton Anglican
Glebe Cafe Church Glebe Uniting Church
Gordon Uniting Church Gordon Uniting Church
MCC Good Shepherd Granville MCC
Homebush Uniting Church Homebush Uniting Church
Wayside Chapel Parish Mission Kings Cross Uniting Church
St Ninian’s Congregation Lyneham Uniting Church
Integrity Melbourne Melbourne Anglican
Ashburton Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
Box Hill Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
Collins St. Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
East Doncaster Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
Footscray Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
St. Kilda Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
MCC Melbourne Melbourne MCC
Hamilton Uniting Church Newcastle Uniting Church
North Adelaide Baptist Church North Adelaide Baptist
Paddington Uniting Church Paddington Uniting Church
The Open Door Penrith Community of Christ
Randwick Uniting Church Randwick Uniting Church
Strathfield Uniting Church Strathfield Uniting Church
St. Andrew's Anglican Church Subiaco Anglican
St. James, King Street Sydney Anglican
Community of Christ Our Hope Sydney Ecumenical Catholic Church of Australia
Crave MCC Sydney, Paddington MCC
MCC Sydney Sydney MCC
Pitt Street Congregation Sydney Uniting Church
South Sydney Uniting Church Sydney Uniting Church
Waverley Lugar Brae Uniting Church Waverley Uniting Church
Footscray Baptist Church Victoria, Footscray Baptist
South Yarra Community Baptist Church Victoria, South Yarra Baptist
St. Francis & St. Clare Liberal Catholic Mission Victoria Liberal Catholic Church
Acts2Faith Fellowship Victoria Non-denominational
Westgate Baptist Community Yarraville Baptist

There may be Australians aboard the forum who might be interested in the above information. I'm wondering, however, how 99percent and perhaps others would regard these Churches from his/their Christian perspective. Are the members of these 'Gay Affirming' Churches hell-bound, perhaps ...?

Oh my dearset KCKID. Do you think this is something that was unexpected to happen in the Church?

Let's see shall we?

When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers
Don’t you realize that someday we believers will judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can’t you decide even these little things among yourselves? Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life. If you have legal disputes about such matters, why go to outside judges who are not respected by the church? I am saying this to shame you. Isn’t there anyone in all the church who is wise enough to decide these issues? But instead, one believer sues another—right in front of unbelievers!

Even to have such lawsuits with one another is a defeat for you. Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated? Instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong and cheat even your fellow believers.

Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Some of you were once like that.

But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

- Paul, to Greek Christians in the city of Corinth (1 Corinthians 6)

And even you dearest KCKID, know the following very well:

Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people.

I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives.

The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

So I want to remind you, though you already know these things, that Jesus first rescued the nation of Israel from Egypt, but later he destroyed those who did not remain faithful. And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment. And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment.

In the same way, these people—who claim authority from their dreams—live immoral lives, defy authority, and scoff at supernatural beings. But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, “The Lord rebuke you!� (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses’ body.) But these people scoff at things they do not understand. Like unthinking animals, they do whatever their instincts tell them, and so they bring about their own destruction.

What sorrow awaits them! For they follow in the footsteps of Cain, who killed his brother. Like Balaam, they deceive people for money. And like Korah, they perish in their rebellion.

When these people eat with you in your fellowship meals commemorating the Lord’s love, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you.
They are like shameless shepherds who care only for themselves.
They are like clouds blowing over the land without giving any rain. They are like trees in autumn that are doubly dead, for they bear no fruit and have been pulled up by the roots.
They are like wild waves of the sea, churning up the foam of their shameful deeds.
They are like wandering stars, doomed forever to blackest darkness.

- Jude 1 - The New Testament
A letter to fellow Christians

I think Jude knew what we were going to deal with too.

[99percentatheism]

Back to the topic ...there is no need for a specific 'Gay Denomination' here in Australia since an increasing number of churches are opening their doors to both gays and straights. While there could be more, below are a list of 50 "Welcoming Gay Friendly Churches."

Integrity Adelaide Adelaide Anglican
Ashfield Parish Mission Ashfield Uniting Church
Burdekin Uniting Church Ayr Qld Uniting Church
Balmain United Church Balmain Uniting Church
Blackwood Uniting Church Blackwood, Adelaide Uniting Church
Bondi Beach, Chapel By The Sea Bondi Beach Uniting Church
St. John’s Anglican Cathedral Brisbane, Queensland Anglican
MCC Brisbane Brisbane, Queensland MCC
New Way Community Chapel Brisbane, Queensland Non-denominational
Brunswick Baptist Church Brunswick Baptist
Canberra Baptist Church Canberra City Baptist
Canberra City Uniting Church Canberra City Uniting Church
Church of the Trinity Clarence Park Uniting Church
Community Church of St. Mark Clifton Hill Baptist
St. James’ Congregation Curtin, Canberra Uniting Church
Christ Church Anglican Cathedral Darwin Anglican
United Ecumenical Catholic Church Dundas Valley Ecumenical Catholic Church
Yilki Uniting Church Encounter Bay Uniting Church
St. Chad’s Anglican Church Fullarton Anglican
Glebe Cafe Church Glebe Uniting Church
Gordon Uniting Church Gordon Uniting Church
MCC Good Shepherd Granville MCC
Homebush Uniting Church Homebush Uniting Church
Wayside Chapel Parish Mission Kings Cross Uniting Church
St Ninian’s Congregation Lyneham Uniting Church
Integrity Melbourne Melbourne Anglican
Ashburton Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
Box Hill Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
Collins St. Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
East Doncaster Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
Footscray Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
St. Kilda Baptist Church Melbourne Baptist
MCC Melbourne Melbourne MCC
Hamilton Uniting Church Newcastle Uniting Church
North Adelaide Baptist Church North Adelaide Baptist
Paddington Uniting Church Paddington Uniting Church
The Open Door Penrith Community of Christ
Randwick Uniting Church Randwick Uniting Church
Strathfield Uniting Church Strathfield Uniting Church
St. Andrew's Anglican Church Subiaco Anglican
St. James, King Street Sydney Anglican
Community of Christ Our Hope Sydney Ecumenical Catholic Church of Australia
Crave MCC Sydney, Paddington MCC
MCC Sydney Sydney MCC
Pitt Street Congregation Sydney Uniting Church
South Sydney Uniting Church Sydney Uniting Church
Waverley Lugar Brae Uniting Church Waverley Uniting Church
Footscray Baptist Church Victoria, Footscray Baptist
South Yarra Community Baptist Church Victoria, South Yarra Baptist
St. Francis & St. Clare Liberal Catholic Mission Victoria Liberal Catholic Church
Acts2Faith Fellowship Victoria Non-denominational
Westgate Baptist Community Yarraville Baptist

There may be Australians aboard the forum who might be interested in the above information. I'm wondering, however, how 99percent and perhaps others would regard these Churches from his/their Christian perspective. Are the members of these 'Gay Affirming' Churches hell-bound, perhaps ...?

Not hard to guess
IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! ALL CHRISTENDOM IS DOOMED!

CHRISTENDOM? Are you equating that label with "The Church?" More than likely.

It didn't stop the first century Church. It won't take over the 21st century Church either. It may infect some places but that was well predicted and warned to be expected. The Church is after all called the body of Christ. And one needs to look no further than the infections one endures in the body to see that there are protections built in to deal with sickness.

Like Peter points out to what Christians that have repented and preach repentence can expect from those that refuse to:

For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

[KCKID]

KCKID
This is a long thread and some of us have been participating in it for months. Others have come and gone over the months - as happens - and I feel that most have simply 'had enough' and have therefore chosen to drop out. I don't blame them as I've been tempted several times to throw up my hands in frustration while attempting to get into the mind of the OP.

You continue to try to make "me" the subject of your tactics. Ad hom is a weak champion KID.

Um ...am I not addressing the one who initiated this thread ...?

OK so be it:

50,000-plus views shows that the subject concerns quite a lot of people. That many, many stay on the sidelines, I can attest to and testify about, is not a bad choice. The pro gay pride side plays with nasty tactics. How many personal insults have you bashed me with KID? The standard character assassination can crush many a sweet person. I am a student of histoty and reality so it comes as nothing queer to me to expect the slings and arrows of an adversary.

You're such a martyr. I actually don't recall having bashed you with any personal insults at all, 99percent. I've merely attempted to counter YOUR personal attacks on GLBT people.

(Now check it out, how many people will rush to accuse the usage of the word "queer" with a modern charge? See my point KID? It is not the conservative position that comes from an academic washer and dryer.

That was a nice bit of rhetoric.

Ad hominem is a standard experience via the modern Alinsky technique turned toward a Christian these days.

I just tell it as I see it.

I, personally, have been astounded how this thread has introduced me to people and places that are so diverse and so wide ranging and so, so supportive. And so enlightening of history and sound morality. I have been recharged that the future is not as dark as the debate makes it seem. Nature will not be mocked. I don't hide in the dark, nor should I.

Yes, it IS astounding as well as somewhat disconcerting that others share your message of hate under the guize of Christianity.

Something that I haven't yet asked 99percentatheism is this: Do you, 99percent, believe homosexuality to be a mental illness that can be healed?

I was listed in the DSM before "politcal correctness" entered the medical field.

It might be helpful to give out the full name of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) instead of assuming that everyone knows. Anyway, how do you mean that you were 'listed'?

I guess you're aware that The American Psychological Association (APA), the world's largest association of psychologists, has stated that: “Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and the APA opposes all portrayals of lesbian, gay and bisexual people as mentally ill and in need of treatment due to their sexual orientation.�

My "opinion" of the psychology business is something I would only discuss in a PM. Needless to pontificate, the secular world is becoming more and more depraved and mentally diseased.

But, doesn't this indicate more of a need for understanding and compassion rather than painting these 'depraved and mentally diseased' people with the hateful brush that you paint them with?

This after the APA has taken control of our populace. You may not be aware that a psychologist decides who is mentally healthy right? How convenient is that to the bottomline of paying a mortgage right?

Yes, I DO know that a psychologist decides who is mentally healthy. Also, perhaps surprisingly, I DO agree with you here. I'm no fan of psychology and I'm most skeptical, in fact, often appalled, that 'expert opinions' are regarded so highly by the courts and by people in general. I would place many, if not all, on the list of the most highly paid charlatans ever to be let loose on society. People NEED psychologists to remedy the ills that psychologists tell them that they have. Psychologists NEED mentally unstable people to justify their existence and, as you say, to help pay the mortgage and support their affluent lifestyle.

That said, I don't believe homosexuality to be a mental illness REGARDLESS of what the APA might have to say about it.

]You may not know this (and I'd bet my house you don't) but psyche originally meant soul.

Hint, hint

I certainly DO (and DID) know that. I took psychology as a strand subject of my Social Science Degree. Does your house have a walk-in closet ...?

I'm going to have to leave off now and come back to the rest of your post later.

[KCKID]

Part 2 of KCKID response to 99percentatheism"

I do believe, due to your past remarks, that you don't much approve of the APA's findings. So, 99percent, do YOU believe homosexuality to be a mental illness or not?

I am not a psychologist. So your attempt and tactic here is out of bounds to try to corral me into.

One need not be a psychologist to agree or to disagree with the APA's findings. I'm merely asking your opionion - or your belief - here, nothing to do with attempting to corral you.

Homosexuality is a behavior is it not KID?

Is heterosexuality a behavior? I'd more call it an orientation ...AND an unchosen one at that.

A choice behavior. Is it not KID?

Whatever heterosexuality is just ditto it for homosexuality.

This is a 'yes' or 'no' question although I would appreciate further clarification with regard to your answer. If 'yes', then what would you propose can be done to rectify or to alleviate the illness? Bombard their mind with biblical 'clobber' texts and lengthy diatribe telling them that their illness, if not cured, will ultimately lead them to hell?

I am a Bible affirming Christian.

Bully for you. Do you want a standing ovation?

Homosexual acts are choice behaviors.

Sure they are ...same as heterosexual acts. So what?

As is the adultery you accuse the divorced and remarried of engaging in.

Exactly. So ...?

Start another thread if you want to try to trap me into some diagnosis as a psychologist. All I know is causwe and effect. Where psychology takes command of the populace, trouble follows.

Possibly.

26 dead in a Elementarty school trouble. Our populace is becoming more and more mentally ill isn't it KID? And WHO do we go to decide that? The APA and whatever its equal is ijn Australia for your guys down under right?

I trust you're not blaming GLBTs for society's ills.

If 'no', then what DO you believe 'a homosexual' to be exactly?

Though nausea and its resulting behavior follows any concerted inquiry I entertain where psychology rules a group or individual, "I" believe a homosexual is a person that is attracted to members of the same sex

Correct. Add to that ...not of their choosing, the same as a heterosexual person.

and acts out on that attraction.

Not necessarily so. But, some do ...the same as heterosexuals. Is that a problem to you?

Like I have defined over and over again, a person is not a Bank Robber for thinking about robbing banks. They are a bank robber when they are convicted of having robber a bank.

What a beautiful analogy ...a bank robber and a homosexual. NOT!

Although Jesus judges the thoughts of us all, I am not God. He is. I can only decide what to do with and about actions.

Wow, what a startling revelation! I had begun to think that the only difference between you and God is that God doesn't believe that He is 99percentatheism . . .

That was a joke, by the way . . .

Is he (let's keep it male) simply a 'failed' heterosexual that doesn't 'have the balls' to 'be a man' and therefore avoids intimate relations with the opposite sex?

How intersting that you reference testicles (balls).

Yes, that was rather crass of me.

You do realize that testicles testify against any and all pro homosexual and pro homosexuality argument?

From what I understand homosexuals seem to be quite happy with whatever their intimate practices might entail.

Testicles are not "designed" by nature for rectums and throats. Not even in psychology.

Try telling that to heterosexuals.

By now you know I don't shrinki away from slang.

Oh, I sure do, you're the incredible non-shrinking (from slang) man.

If so, then why would that affect you in the way that you obviously are affected? Should not you, a professed Christian, instead show compassion for those who are not as strong as they might be?

Is this not what Jesus would do?

Guilty as you charge. Except, YOU and your side . . . charge me a professed Christian, with hatred, bigotry, bullying, and homophobia for doing as Christ teaches.

Er ...where does Christ teach Christians to oppose homosexuality, especially to the extent that you do?

Would you, 99percent, at the earliest opportunity tell me/us exactly what YOU believe a homosexual to be?

A human being.

I'm pleased to hear that. I have had my doubts . . .

(That was as fats as I could answer.)

And I commend you for your speedy response. I almost got whiplash.

Unless of course its one of those gay penguins in a european zoo. They are penguins.

I rather like gay penguins. Does this mean that I support their lifestyle?

It's one thing to suggest that a specific group of people start their own denomination but it's another to demean such people without really explaining why.

I probably have more than a hundred posts in this thread and I point our that it is YOUR CHARGE that I have demeaned people.

Suggesting that gay people start their own denomination so as not to corrupt 'the saints' is pretty demeaning, don't you think?

So, again, 1) what do YOU believe a homosexual to be ...mentally ill? 2)a 'failed' heterosexual? 3) a 'devious' heterosexual whose role in life is to p--s off Christians? 4)...or are they simply who they are through no choice of their own? 5)I await your response 6)and, as I always request ...please keep it simple.

I edited and numbered your requests to accomodate your simplicity request:

That did not go unnoticed and I appreciate that.

1) No.

So, you DO agree with the APA at least on this particular finding?

2) Only if anatomy shows this to be a fact. (science is important to Christians like me. Especially darwinian evolution which wholly supports Christian marriage.)

Okay. So a homosexual could be a 'failed' heterosexual in your view . . .

That's not very flattering to the homosexual is it? That might even sound demeaning if you hadn't previously denied demeaning homosexuals.

3) Sometimes. Current events seems to bear this out.

So, there are at least some heterosexuals out there who SO loathe Christians that they turn gay for the sole purpose of p---ing off Christians. Cool!

4) No. Simply? Anatomically, homosexuality has no support group.

So, what you are saying is that it's not the person (gay or straight) that one is attracted to - or falls in love with - but their genitalia? Okay. I did ask and you answered.

5) I believe that fully. Due to facts.

Wasn't your original #5 that I await your response?

6) That's laughable.

That I asked you to keep it simple? Well, if nothing else I made you laugh and a good laugh is what we all need much of the time. Life is far too serious so we all need to chill out. Happy new year, 99percent!

[99percentatheism]

KCKID
This is a long thread and some of us have been participating in it for months. Others have come and gone over the months - as happens - and I feel that most have simply 'had enough' and have therefore chosen to drop out. I don't blame them as I've been tempted several times to throw up my hands in frustration while attempting to get into the mind of the OP.

I believe it is because any so-called pro-gay theological positions have been soundly defeated. Like I've written many times, there is not one shred of support for homosexuality or the modern-day gay pride culture anywhere in the Bible. In fact it is the exact opposite.

You continue to try to make "me" the subject of your tactics. Ad hom is a weak champion KID.

Um ...am I not addressing the one who initiated this thread ...?

You go at "me" because the theology you present is not supportive of your sales pitch.

OK so be it:

50,000-plus views shows that the subject concerns quite a lot of people. That many, many stay on the sidelines, I can attest to and testify about, is not a bad choice. The pro gay pride side plays with nasty tactics. How many personal insults have you bashed me with KID? The standard character assassination can crush many a sweet person. I am a student of histoty and reality so it comes as nothing queer to me to expect the slings and arrows of an adversary.

You're such a martyr. I actually don't recall having bashed you with any personal insults at all, 99percent. I've merely attempted to counter YOUR personal attacks on GLBT people.

I'll bet you don't see your attacks as personal.

(Now check it out, how many people will rush to accuse the usage of the word "queer" with a modern charge? See my point KID? It is not the conservative position that comes from an academic washer and dryer.

That was a nice bit of rhetoric.

It is far from rhetoric. Queer is a very applicable word in today's modern world. Like when applied to gay theology. Nothing insulting about its use. It has nothing to do with a person's sexual acts, but rather than convolution of the liberal positions.

Ad hominem is a standard experience via the modern Alinsky technique turned toward a Christian these days.

I just tell it as I see it.

Proves my point about mental conditioning.

I, personally, have been astounded how this thread has introduced me to people and places that are so diverse and so wide ranging and so, so supportive. And so enlightening of history and sound morality. I have been recharged that the future is not as dark as the debate makes it seem. Nature will not be mocked. I don't hide in the dark, nor should I.

Yes, it IS astounding as well as somewhat disconcerting that others share your message of hate under the guize of Christianity.

It is not surprising at all that preaching the Gospel is considered hate. Jesus made it clear that this would happen.

What a good guesser he is.

Chick-fil-A anyone?

Something that I haven't yet asked 99percentatheism is this: Do you, 99percent, believe homosexuality to be a mental illness that can be healed?

It was listed in the DSM before "politcal correctness" entered the medical field.

It might be helpful to give out the full name of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) instead of assuming that everyone knows. Anyway, how do you mean that you were 'listed'?

I meant to write IT and not I. Homosexuality was a mental illness until the gay agenda was applied to the APA.

I guess you're aware that The American Psychological Association (APA), the world's largest association of psychologists, has stated that: “Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and the APA opposes all portrayals of lesbian, gay and bisexual people as mentally ill and in need of treatment due to their sexual orientation.�

My "opinion" of the psychology business is something I would only discuss in a PM. Needless to pontificate, the secular world is becoming more and more depraved and mentally diseased.

But, doesn't this indicate more of a need for understanding and compassion rather than painting these 'depraved and mentally diseased' people with the hateful brush that you paint them with?

Understanding and compassion is labled as hate speech by the gay pride activists and their legion of supporters. Chicago Mayor rahm Emmanuel made that clear about how unwelcomed Christians are to Chicago for believing in marriage as any Christian should.

This after the APA has taken control of our populace. You may not be aware that a psychologist decides who is mentally healthy right? How convenient is that to the bottomline of paying a mortgage right?

Yes, I DO know that a psychologist decides who is mentally healthy. Also, perhaps surprisingly, I DO agree with you here. I'm no fan of psychology and I'm most skeptical, in fact, often appalled, that 'expert opinions' are regarded so highly by the courts and by people in general. I would place many, if not all, on the list of the most highly paid charlatans ever to be let loose on society. People NEED psychologists to remedy the ills that psychologists tell them that they have. Psychologists NEED mentally unstable people to justify their existence and, as you say, to help pay the mortgage and support their affluent lifestyle.

That said, I don't believe homosexuality to be a mental illness REGARDLESS of what the APA might have to say about it.

I look at the APA mostly as fulfilling prophecy. The madness of a debauched world is becoming more and more clear as the patients are in charge of the insane asylum.

]You may not know this (and I'd bet my house you don't) but psyche originally meant soul.

Hint, hint

I certainly DO (and DID) know that. I took psychology as a strand subject of my Social Science Degree. Does your house have a walk-in closet ...?

Psy degrees and classes are ubiquitous for a reason. I believe a prophetic reason.

In any event, the world is not becoming a more moral place to live by rejecting God and redefining the Gospel (and marriage). I think places like Oahu Hawaii is another great example of a secular (liberal) society and its fruit. Going from the Ala Moana Mall to the Honolulu Zoo is a disturbing experience not soon forgotten. No matter daytime or nightime. It's easy to see how myths like Sodom and Gomorrah were founded on reality.

[KCKID]

In any event, the world is not becoming a more moral place to live by rejecting God and redefining the Gospel (and marriage). I think places like Oahu Hawaii is another great example of a secular (liberal) society and its fruit. Going from the Ala Moana Mall to the Honolulu Zoo is a disturbing experience not soon forgotten. No matter daytime or nightime. It's easy to see how myths like Sodom and Gomorrah were founded on reality.

For those of us who don't know what 'going from the Ala Moana Mall to the Honolulu Zoo being a disturbing experience not soon forgotten' means, would you elaborate on this?

By the way, I don't want this to appear as though I'm making concessions - I obviously disagree with you on the topic subject and I have no problem with those who through no doing of their own are either gay or straight - but I also see the world heading in a downward spiral for all kinds of reasons. 'Immoral' is not just a sexual term and this world is indeed immoral. I don't know that 'rejecting God' has anything to do with it, however, since the OT God is pretty immoral Himself and someone that "I" simply cannot relate to. Jesus - yes - I can relate to Jesus.

[99percentatheism]

KCKID

In any event, the world is not becoming a more moral place to live by rejecting God and redefining the Gospel (and marriage). I think places like Oahu Hawaii is another great example of a secular (liberal) society and its fruit. Going from the Ala Moana Mall to the Honolulu Zoo is a disturbing experience not soon forgotten. No matter daytime or nightime. It's easy to see how myths like Sodom and Gomorrah were founded on reality.

For those of us who don't know what 'going from the Ala Moana Mall to the Honolulu Zoo being a disturbing experience not soon forgotten' means, would you elaborate on this?

Hawaii has not become a more fine and moral place with the embracing of seculaism and the political reactionary-hating of the Gospel. The shattered lives of the immense and growing homeless population shows the standard by-product of the licentious and lascivious nature of materialst sociial and political power.

In plain words: When you walk around the Island of Oahu, you encounter a lot of sloth and apathy mixed in of course with those that prey on that. There are now prostitutes walking the streets as if they were part of those open-air Flea Markets.

By the way, I don't want this to appear as though I'm making concessions -

I don't know if I believe that God is answering prayer anymore. So I do not expect concessions from people with your worldview. It seems that things always go from bad to worse. And we are in that phase again.

God does seem to remain silent when the people and a land rejects Him. But if he does, I would pray that you change your mind.

I obviously disagree with you on the topic subject and I have no problem with those who through no doing of their own are either gay or straight -

Are you really saying that poeple are born with excuses to sin? Really?
How would that make ANY behavior or action as wrong? Morality to a person like the ones you define have a right to believe that their mental feelings rule their behaviors. That makes base animals out of humans does it not?

. . . but I also see the world heading in a downward spiral for all kinds of reasons. 'Immoral' is not just a sexual term and this world is indeed immoral.

many, many, physically ill people in our American populace brought on their sicknesses via licentiousness. Gluttony "used to be" a sin. Now it is definjed as a disease and excused away.

I went to Disneyland recently and was shocked at how many obese people are using those electric seats-on-wheels to get around. Shame and accountability seem to only be forced on Christians these days that DON'T give volumenous excuse for every bad choice people make.

Is that just another hypocritical and callous Christian opinion?

C'mon now. Even nature makes the same observation. But then again, people defy nature as a civil right these days. With only the Christians being bashed for doing so. And our rejection of nature has to do with helping the poor and needy and rejecting debauchery as a human rights capaign.

I don't know that 'rejecting God' has anything to do with it,

That is painfully obvious. As you show next:

however, since the OT God is pretty immoral Himself

No more immoral than a sound circuit court judge or an Oncologist. Sickness is recordable. Where would gang violence be in Chicago and other large cities if communities stoned bad children?

We would have far more paradise found in the Hood. In fact, there would be no "hood" since that is gang-culture lexicon for the most part.

. . . and someone that "I" simply cannot relate to.

Jesus - yes - I can relate to Jesus.

How can you relate to Jesus? He does not have an "anything goes" message. In fact, His is the strictest message in history.

Jesus IS the God of the "Old Testament."

As shown here:

“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Now look at that KID. A "pagan or a tax collector." What is the fruit of a secular society as it is seen right now in today's modern western world (and parts of Asia as well)?

Taxation, sexuality and depravity, that rivals any pagan empire.

I wish that you would examine your worldview. Look at what is happening when the full Gospel is presented.

It is rejected because it is not the fluffy little "do as you will" guide book. Certainly Jesus makes it cler that choosing Him is just that, a free choice, but it also clearly shows that a person decides to follow a different path from tyhe ones that world and its secular ways clearly dictate.

But you did at least address the OP. As same-sex marriage becomes more and more legalized all over, please watch the attacks on Christians that believe what Jesus said cannot be edited for political correctness and secular morality.

I can't sway your moral, eternal or temporal choices here. But maybe, as we see this present darkness grow in intensity and action against The Church in the coming years, you may be persuaded by truth to see the reality of what The Church faces for real. Remember, as I have shown, we were once considered by a Roman society shockingly similar to ours of today, that we are "enemies of mankind."

History repeats when it is discarded.

[99percentatheism]

"We must lovingly but firmly respond to the aggressive agenda of not all, but of many in the homosexual community. … Underneath this issue is a very powerful and aggressive moment. That movement is not a benevolent movement, it is a movement to seize by any means necessary the feeling and the mood of the day, to the point where the homosexual lifestyle becomes accepted as a norm in our society and is given full standing as any other lifestyle, as it relates to family."

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... s#comments

For this preaching to fellow Christians gathered to hear him preach, Pastor Louie Giglio was ousted from the Obama Inaugural festivities.

So much for freedom of religion, association and speech.

While there are many gay affirming religious professsionals insulting and denigrating Christians as being hateful, bigoted and phobic people for their support of biblical principles on marriage and same gender sex acts, this Pastor suffers for his speech.

Here is another person's speech about the God-ordained definition of a marriage, that would more than likely get them removed from association with the Obama worldview:

“Haven’t you read,� he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’

- Jesus called Christ

This move by the Obama administration seems to define any Christian Pastor that preaches against Obama's worldview as unwelcomed in Obama's new society.

[KCKID]

The below news item does not say that Giglio was ousted but that he withdrew.

Prominent pastor out of Obama Inaugural after revelation he called homosexuality a ‘sin’ curable by Christianity. Rev. Louis Giglio, head of Georgia’s Passion City Church, withdraws saying his participation would be dwarfed by controversy over his comments.

By JOSEPH STRAW/NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
THURSDAY, JANUARY 10, 2013, 1:54 PM

Louie Giglio will no longer participate at the presidential inauguration following revelation of his controversial comments on homosexuality. A top minister has withdrawn from President Obama's inaugural program after the revelation he preached that homosexuality is a choice and a sin that can be cured through Christianity.

Rev. Louie Giglio, head of Georgia's Passion City Church, was tapped Tuesday to deliver an invocation at the Jan. 21 ceremony for his leadership in the fight against human trafficking, which the Obama Administration calls modern-day slavery.

The next day, the pro-Obama liberal blog Think Progress reported on a mid-1990s Giglio sermon in which he said homosexuality is "is sin in the eyes of God."
"And the only way out of a homosexual lifestyle, the only way out of a relationship that has been engrained over years of time, is through the healing power of Jesus," Giglio said, according to the report.

Thursday the Presidential Inaugural Committee issued a statement from Giglio, who said that "it is likely that my participation, and the prayer I would offer, will be dwarfed by those seeking to make their agenda the focal point of the inauguration."

"Neither I, nor our team, feel it best serves the core message and goals we are seeking to accomplish to be in a fight on an issue not of our choosing, thus I respectfully withdraw my acceptance of the President's invitation," the statement read.

"I will continue to pray regularly for the President, and urge the nation to do so."
Inaugural committee spokeswoman Addie Whisenant said that the committee members "were not aware of Pastor Giglio's past comments at the time of his selection and they don't reflect our desire to celebrate the strength and diversity of our country at this Inaugural." The committee is searching for a replacement who does, she said.

Giglio's withdrawal comes as the nation's first black President takes flak - also from the Left - about a lack of women in his evolving second-term Cabinet.

Another prominent evangelical pastor, Rick Warren, spoke at Obama's first inaugural despite his own opposition to gay marriage. Last year, his hand forced by unexpected comments from Vice President Joe Biden, Obama declared, "I think same sex couples should be able to get married."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.1237500