The Gay Denomination.
For those people that desire same gender sexual behavior or thoughts, AND that claim to be a Christian and claim that their beliefs and theology can fit the New Testament witness, instead of waging an endless, fruitless and vicious war on other Christians - that will NEVER accept their gay doctrines and dogmas . . ., - why won't they just declare a new and alternative denomination, just like Watch Tower theological adherants and Mormons?
Why the need to join forces with anti-Christian and secularist movements to attack "Bible believing" Christians?
Afterall, in referencing the New Testament, there is no justifiable comparison of sex acts to being a slave (slavery), or the charge of bigotry and hatefulness in holding that marriage is a man and a woman.
Why not just start an "Out and Proud" Gay Denomination?
The Gay Denomination?
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Post #1711
KCKID
99percentatheism wrote: @KCKID
In light of today's highly charged "political correctness" dominating our secular, political and judicial cultures . . . how does a person (a Christian person) remain totally and solidly and unmovably commited to opposition of an adversary and do thst politely?
I'll have to reply to your seemingly unwarranted vitiolic characterization of the "average Christian" in the above quote a little later on in the day.But, my point is ...why should someone who is involved privately and sexually with another consenting adult be an adversary to a 'Christian person' to begin with? What does what one does sexually with another consenting adult have to do with 'Christianity' per se? I mean, what spiritual qualifications are required - whether one be gay or straight - to sit in a church pew every week mouthing songs, saying a few prayers and listening to generally regurgitated sermons and doing damn-all else? Other than having an air of superiority and giving the appearance of 'being righteous' that's pretty well what the average Christian does, isn't it? So, what does one's being gay or straight have to do with Christianity?
99percentatheism wrote:And please, feel free to quote the New Testament.
Any that directly and clearly supports and encourages an "average Christian" to redefine marriage differently than Jesus defined it, and/or engage in homosexual sex acts.Is there any particuar quote that you'd like?
Or otherwise agree that the historic and biblically honest Christian position that gay sex acts and redefining marriage is inappropriate to promote in the Christian Church universal.
Post #1712
Perhaps it was rather unwarranted to paint 'the average Christian' with such a broad brush except for the fact that you play up Christians SO humongously in your posts (to the detriment of homosexuals) that we surely need to be realistic. It's been my experience that it's only ever a handful of church members who actually DO anything that would be considered useful and for the benefit of others. Just the mere mention of 'doing these things for the least of my brethren' would have the majority of 'pew warmers' heading for the exit. So, please stop with the 'we saints' nonsense. The average Christian is a mere human being with human failings - as is the homosexual - just like they were born to be.99percentatheism wrote:KCKID99percentatheism wrote: @KCKID
In light of today's highly charged "political correctness" dominating our secular, political and judicial cultures . . . how does a person (a Christian person) remain totally and solidly and unmovably commited to opposition of an adversary and do thst politely?I'll have to reply to your seemingly unwarranted vitiolic characterization of the "average Christian" in the above quote a little later on in the day.But, my point is ...why should someone who is involved privately and sexually with another consenting adult be an adversary to a 'Christian person' to begin with? What does what one does sexually with another consenting adult have to do with 'Christianity' per se? I mean, what spiritual qualifications are required - whether one be gay or straight - to sit in a church pew every week mouthing songs, saying a few prayers and listening to generally regurgitated sermons and doing damn-all else? Other than having an air of superiority and giving the appearance of 'being righteous' that's pretty well what the average Christian does, isn't it? So, what does one's being gay or straight have to do with Christianity?
99percentatheism wrote:And please, feel free to quote the New Testament.
Is there any particuar quote that you'd like?
But, both heterosexual and homosexual acts are engaged in at home in private, are they not? How do you KNOW who is engaging in what and WHY would you even be interested? This seems awful intrusive to me as well as nothing to do with determining one's status as a Christian.99percentatheism wrote:Any that directly and clearly supports and encourages an "average Christian" to redefine marriage differently than Jesus defined it, and/or engage in homosexual sex acts.
The promoting of either heterosexual sex or homosexual sex in Church is not happening. The relationship between two people - heterosexual or homosexual - should be seen as being more than sex. Intimacy between two adults should be a taboo subject to anyone else. You see 'homosexual' and immediately think of sex. It's all in your mind, 99percent, and it's YOUR problem. Own it!99percentatheism wrote:Or otherwise agree that the historic and biblically honest Christian position that gay sex acts and redefining marriage is inappropriate to promote in the Christian Church universal.
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Post #1713
From Post 1707:
But don't it beat all, you'll go to your grave swearing up and down ya do, but never showing it.
And don't it beat all, all y'all homosexual hating 'Christians' can do nothing more'n point at a book and declare, "well how 'bout that".
Y'all are incapable of showing ya speak truth, and y'all oughta be got onto about it!
I'm with ya on the whole, "that ain't for me" deal, but I'll be a son of a motherless goat if I'll accept your condemnation of your fellow humans based on a religious notion you are entirely incapable of showing is truth.
Hide behind your Bible. Present that Bible as some form of valid argument - and take your comfort in the vitriol it presents for those who disagree.
Hide behind your repressed homosexuality.
Hide behind your hatred of the very folks I contend you represent, 'cause there you are, you're one of 'em.
Your argument is nothing more than, "I'm proud of this book, and if you ain't, then you, according to this book I'm so proud of, can go to Hell."
Present that hateful book as some sort of reliable document.
In the end (no pun intended), I will declare you're nothing more'n a hater who rejects any notion you don't understand.
You cower in fear of the fact that your over-zealous disregard for such folks indicates you're sitting there right in amongst 'em, only you're shamed that you are.
Let it go, man. Be who you are. Don't let some biblical excreters of the bull tell you you ought'n be proud for sitting there being you.
You, your philosophy, and your religion are nothing but hatred expressed in a profound inability of speaking truth.
You, your philosophy, and your religion are nothing more'n repressed feelings for the very thing you seek to repress.
"God hates teh gheys!"
"Why?"
"'Cause dadgummit here I am, I'm one of 'em, but I don't wanna be!"
By understanding that just 'cause you point up to the sky and declare it agrees, that don't mean the sky gives a tinker's dang about what you have to say.99percentatheism wrote: In light of today's highly charged "political correctness" dominating our secular, political and judicial cultures . . . how does a person (a Christian person) remain totally and solidly and unmovably commited to opposition of an adversary and do thst politely?
The New Testamant be danged, where some folks carry on about how their god ain't cool with folks, we oughta demand such folks show they speak truth.99percentatheism wrote: And please, feel free to quote the New Testament.
But don't it beat all, you'll go to your grave swearing up and down ya do, but never showing it.
And don't it beat all, all y'all homosexual hating 'Christians' can do nothing more'n point at a book and declare, "well how 'bout that".
Y'all are incapable of showing ya speak truth, and y'all oughta be got onto about it!
I'm with ya on the whole, "that ain't for me" deal, but I'll be a son of a motherless goat if I'll accept your condemnation of your fellow humans based on a religious notion you are entirely incapable of showing is truth.
Hide behind your Bible. Present that Bible as some form of valid argument - and take your comfort in the vitriol it presents for those who disagree.
Hide behind your repressed homosexuality.
Hide behind your hatred of the very folks I contend you represent, 'cause there you are, you're one of 'em.
Your argument is nothing more than, "I'm proud of this book, and if you ain't, then you, according to this book I'm so proud of, can go to Hell."
Present that hateful book as some sort of reliable document.
In the end (no pun intended), I will declare you're nothing more'n a hater who rejects any notion you don't understand.
You cower in fear of the fact that your over-zealous disregard for such folks indicates you're sitting there right in amongst 'em, only you're shamed that you are.
Let it go, man. Be who you are. Don't let some biblical excreters of the bull tell you you ought'n be proud for sitting there being you.
You, your philosophy, and your religion are nothing but hatred expressed in a profound inability of speaking truth.
You, your philosophy, and your religion are nothing more'n repressed feelings for the very thing you seek to repress.
"God hates teh gheys!"
"Why?"
"'Cause dadgummit here I am, I'm one of 'em, but I don't wanna be!"
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Post #1714
From Post 1707:JoeyKnothead
99percentatheism wrote: In light of today's highly charged "political correctness" dominating our secular, political and judicial cultures . . . how does a person (a Christian person) remain totally and solidly and unmovably commited to opposition of an adversary and do thst politely?
Really? And how many gay men are dead that are there to down on the ground dead from earthbound HIV that lead to AIDS?By understanding that just 'cause you point up to the sky and declare it agrees, that don't mean the sky gives a tinker's dang about what you have to say.
Oh, and of course, the Christian opposition to enciuraging gay pride is that it is antithetical to Christian truth that is documented in a writings forund on earth. This homosexual marriage demands bantered about is also terra firma derived and has nothing to do with heavenly matters anyway. Per Jesus. And that includes boys men and women too.
And Sodom and Gomorrah, those rude and inhospitable people that had God visiting them for the ills that followed on the heels of their licentiousness were earthbound as well.
This is far more than a heavenly issue.
99percentatheism wrote: And please, feel free to quote the New Testament.
Your opinions on the value of the New Testament are as inconsequential to a Christian as how you flush your toilet.The New Testamant be danged, where some folks carry on about how their god ain't cool with folks, we oughta demand such folks show they speak truth.
Now, if even a person like you, that totally seems to saying that they couldn't care less about it, if you would show one simple chunk of scripture that shows ANY encouraging of gay sex and gay marriage, that would be interesting to see produced. Otherwise, I would expect a person in your worldview to support the hnesy of Christians that hold to marriage as it is only defined as "in the Bible" as man and woman.
I'd need to be interacting with someone willing to open their eyes to reality.But don't it beat all, you'll go to your grave swearing up and down ya do, but never showing it.
Last time I looked and listened, gay marriage is happening on earth.And don't it beat all, all y'all homosexual hating 'Christians' can do nothing more'n point at a book and declare, "well how 'bout that".
You do realize that don't y'all?
Truth is now called bigotry and hate speech. Y'all dun did 'at.Y'all are incapable of showing ya speak truth, and y'all oughta be got onto about it!
Your personal opinion is noted. And just for what it is.I'm with ya on the whole, "that ain't for me" deal, but I'll be a son of a motherless goat if I'll accept your condemnation of your fellow humans based on a religious notion you are entirely incapable of showing is truth.
Same old canard employed with and each an every one of ya. You have a conditioned playbook and it is awesome to see the reactionary kneejerkism that pops out every single time you see someone that isn't along with the crowd.Hide behind your Bible. Present that Bible as some form of valid argument - and take your comfort in the vitriol it presents for those who disagree.
Hmm, where have I read that before?
“Get out of our way,� they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge!
We’ll treat you worse than them.� - The mob of Sodomites in Sodom
They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
That solidly nonsense charge would mean that you are really a repressed Conservative Born Again Bible Believing Evengelical Christian. Using your reasoning.Hide behind your repressed homosexuality.
I love locking horns with the logic you lash out with.
Simply an enjoyable experience for me.
As you are representing you being a Born Again Bible Believing Evengelical Christian? Same logic y'all.Hide behind your hatred of the very folks I contend you represent, 'cause there you are, you're one of 'em.
Whether Sodom and Gomorrah is myth, reality or metaphor, the gay marriage issue is one of forcing everyone to support it BY LAW. Inhospitality is the end result of it.Your argument is nothing more than, "I'm proud of this book, and if you ain't, then you, according to this book I'm so proud of, can go to Hell."
Present that hateful book as some sort of reliable document.
YAWNNNNNN Same od charge since the beginning of the Church era:
A same swx marriage adherant. THREE same sex marriage that is.The circumstances surrounding the first persecution – Nero’s –
But of course, in your logic, all those Christians were really pagan Romans. Sorry if I take a moment for some serious laughter and then some tears.had enormous effects, despite the fact that this persecution does not seem to have extended further than the city of Rome. The Christians were officially accused of a heinous crime – the burning of the city – and this created a widespread public opinion hostile to the new religion.
The historian Tacitus regarded Christianity as ‘a pernicious superstition’; Suetonius described it as ‘novel and mischievous’; Pliny the Younger as ‘depraved and extravagant.’ Tacitus went as far as calling the Christians enemies of mankind. Therefore it is not surprising that ordinary people attributed to Christians all sorts of monstrosities such as infanticide and cannibalism, etc. According to Tertullian, ‘Christians to the lions’ became the obligatory catch-cry of every riot.
OK I'm back. All those martyrs died really desring to be one of their murderers? That's what your logic demands.
If that makes you sleep well at night. I can't change a closed mind. I just went to a Fly Over state last weekend and spoke to some groups, that it is the hunris of the common secularist, our dedicated adversaries, that will keep us safe in the short term in the coming years.In the end (no pun intended), I will declare you're nothing more'n a hater who rejects any notion you don't understand.
The people I am ashamed of are the same people Jude mentioned "back in the day."You cower in fear of the fact that your over-zealous disregard for such folks indicates you're sitting there right in amongst 'em, only you're shamed that you are.
I wonder what it would be like to speak to an actual Demon?Let it go, man. Be who you are. Don't let some biblical excreters of the bull tell you you ought'n be proud for sitting there being you.
I feel I am getting well prepared if it ever happens.
You seem so comfortable with vitriol and hatred towards a Christian. You don't care about the rules here at this site? Never mind. Rules are just some written words.You, your philosophy, and your religion are nothing but hatred expressed in a profound inability of speaking truth.
Something I have seen ubiquitously in debating the subject of gay pride is the need to define Christians as a hate group if we don't support gay sex. It's laughable thinking that that is going to shut us up. As you can see (hopefully) it was a failure for the Romans. AND the secularists of the French Revolution AND the National Socialists in 20th Germany didn't end us up either.
Then I guess you have just said I am a 9-11 Saudi terrorist huh? Oh, and I am actually you too.You, your philosophy, and your religion are nothing more'n repressed feelings for the very thing you seek to repress.
That logic you employ here, is nonsensical.
"God hates teh gheys!"
"Why?"
"'Cause dadgummit here I am, I'm one of 'em, but I don't wanna be!"
Do you realize that that logic means that every Teacher on Earth wants to be an unruly school dropout? Every cop wants to be a murderer? Every scientist a pagan Shaman?
Oh, and awesome, all y'all atheists are really undercover Christian Fundies.
Uhhhh yeaaaahh.
Next?
I would have reported you for your rules breaking, but dang nammit, that'd mean I was wantin' to brak dem darn rules too (again).
No, I'd rather have you front and center where our debate can produce some great examples of what is facing The Church for real.
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Post #1715
KCKID
Wellll, an actually civil tone . . .:99percentatheism wrote:KCKID99percentatheism wrote: @KCKID
In light of today's highly charged "political correctness" dominating our secular, political and judicial cultures . . . how does a person (a Christian person) remain totally and solidly and unmovably commited to opposition of an adversary and do thst politely?I'll have to reply to your seemingly unwarranted vitiolic characterization of the "average Christian" in the above quote a little later on in the day.But, my point is ...why should someone who is involved privately and sexually with another consenting adult be an adversary to a 'Christian person' to begin with? What does what one does sexually with another consenting adult have to do with 'Christianity' per se? I mean, what spiritual qualifications are required - whether one be gay or straight - to sit in a church pew every week mouthing songs, saying a few prayers and listening to generally regurgitated sermons and doing damn-all else? Other than having an air of superiority and giving the appearance of 'being righteous' that's pretty well what the average Christian does, isn't it? So, what does one's being gay or straight have to do with Christianity?
Serioulsy?Perhaps it was rather unwarranted to paint 'the average Christian' with such a broad brush except for the fact that you play up Christians SO humongously in your posts (to the detriment of homosexuals) that we surely need to be realistic.
If we are to be realistic, the billion-plus Christians (yes very humongous) are not doing anything wrong, hateful, bigoted or mean in their opposition to redefining marriage and inappropriate sexual behavior. The gay pride movement is outside of the Christian worldview and always should have been. Though I have been studying the relentless march of the gay agenda on society at large, it was not to stop it in the world. I have taught consistently that homosexuality is a behavior for those that are not concerned with Christian truth but what the world and its ways have always offered the lost. When the Supreme Court allows gay marriage in the secular world, we Christians need to go into a defensive mode immediately. I am engaged in that battle right now. It's better to prepare for your enemies beofre they are at your front door.
And it was the Supreme Court that unleashed the greatest abomination in history with its abortion on demand decision. Though its proponents have the greatest guilt for it. So even more wrong is not going to be surprising. Secularism is not leading the world to a better morality. No, it's exactly the opposite. And now, "we" are legalizing drug use and cheerining it on.
It's no surpride the metaphor, myth or reality of Sodom and Gomorrah. That Phoenix is rising yet again.
I 100% agree with that. Jesus taught well the wheat from the chaff.It's been my experience that it's only ever a handful of church members who actually DO anything that would be considered useful and for the benefit of others.
But please notice that the gay promoting Churches are yoked with unbeleivers in the hundreds of millions?
If it is to encourage sin ans sinning than those pew warmers shpuldn't have been warming the pews in the pro Gay Churches to begin with. It's no surprise when your Church starts to embrace heretical ideology.Just the mere mention of 'doing these things for the least of my brethren' would have the majority of 'pew warmers' heading for the exit.
No. I would have to become a liar to do that. I truly desire not to be a piece of chaff.So, please stop with the 'we saints' nonsense.
Everyone is a "born sinner" in Christian theology. What your gay theology is demanding (like the psychology movement that gave it license), is that everyone embrace and justify sin and sinning because a person is "born that way."The average Christian is a mere human being with human failings - as is the homosexual - just like they were born to be.
That unleashesd the very degeneate behavior we see so commonly expressed in western society today. Our public school system a good example.
99percentatheism wrote:And please, feel free to quote the New Testament.
Is there any particuar quote that you'd like?
99percentatheism wrote:Any that directly and clearly supports and encourages an "average Christian" to redefine marriage differently than Jesus defined it, and/or engage in homosexual sex acts.
No it is not. Jesus was not talking about the samaritan woman at the well playing air hockey with all the men she wasn't married to. The woman "caught in adultery" was not playing scrabble with her adulterous sex partner. "Go, and sin no more," is literally about private sexualo behavior. Paul's advice on how to run healthy Churches is about private sexual behavior of the leadership as well. Now, if your gay folk want to remain silent about the "gay pride" which is of course a declaration of their private sexual behavior . . . then this would not be an issue of attack on Bible affirming Churches.But, both heterosexual and homosexual acts are engaged in at home in private, are they not? How do you KNOW who is engaging in what and WHY would you even be interested? This seems awful intrusive to me as well as nothing to do with determining one's status as a Christian.
C'mon KID. You need to do some prep work if you want a debate with me. Nice or not, the facts have a deep voice.
The promoting of either heterosexual sex or homosexual sex in Church is not happening.99percentatheism wrote:Or otherwise agree that the historic and biblically honest Christian position that gay sex acts and redefining marriage is inappropriate to promote in the Christian Church universal.
Firstly, How would you know? Secindly YES, that is absolutely happeing. Gay Pride is not about having a lisp and not wanting to be teased for that. It is about homosexuality being "affirmed" in the Church.
THAT is VERY inhospitable. Comes from a VERY HAUGHTY group.
Savvy the references?
WHAT?????The relationship between two people - heterosexual or homosexual - should be seen as being more than sex.
When it is a "marriage" being deamnded to be recognized, your opiniion there fails the test of credulity. Gay pride is about their sex lives. C'mon KID, I am not 12-years old.
Because truth is important to me.Intimacy between two adults should be a taboo subject to anyone else. You see 'homosexual' and immediately think of sex.
It's all in my mind? So, do you mean that there are not people that engage in homosexuality, that say that they are ONLY same gender sexually attracted do not exist? There is NO LGBT organizations pushing for "gay rights" all over ther world? That it is just a delusion in my mind?It's all in your mind, 99percent, and it's YOUR problem. Own it![/color]
Where do I get my psychotropic drugs to make the scenes in my mind go away?
Thank you KID for giving me a cure for something that doesn't exist.
I'm glad we stayed interacting with each other. I'm going to go take a nap. When I wake up, this attack on Christians and The Church by Gay Pride activists and atheists, liberals, progressives and other humanistic organizations that promote and support them will all be gone.
Oh happy days!
No more teaching children that they could be gay . . . no more public sex in beach bathrooms (or anywhere else), no more AIDS spread between guys because there is no "gay community and gay culture" of unrestrained promiscuity. No women calling themselves "lesbians" demanding to raise children without a father.
Dare I say I love you for helping me out KID?
I'm reaching for snuggie right now.
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Post #1716
99percentatheism wrote:KCKIDWellll, an actually civil tone . . .:99percentatheism wrote:KCKID99percentatheism wrote: @KCKID
In light of today's highly charged "political correctness" dominating our secular, political and judicial cultures . . . how does a person (a Christian person) remain totally and solidly and unmovably commited to opposition of an adversary and do thst politely?I'll have to reply to your seemingly unwarranted vitiolic characterization of the "average Christian" in the above quote a little later on in the day.But, my point is ...why should someone who is involved privately and sexually with another consenting adult be an adversary to a 'Christian person' to begin with? What does what one does sexually with another consenting adult have to do with 'Christianity' per se? I mean, what spiritual qualifications are required - whether one be gay or straight - to sit in a church pew every week mouthing songs, saying a few prayers and listening to generally regurgitated sermons and doing damn-all else? Other than having an air of superiority and giving the appearance of 'being righteous' that's pretty well what the average Christian does, isn't it? So, what does one's being gay or straight have to do with Christianity?
Serioulsy?Perhaps it was rather unwarranted to paint 'the average Christian' with such a broad brush except for the fact that you play up Christians SO humongously in your posts (to the detriment of homosexuals) that we surely need to be realistic.
If we are to be realistic, the billion-plus Christians (yes very humongous) are not doing anything wrong, hateful, bigoted or mean in their opposition to redefining marriage and inappropriate sexual behavior. The gay pride movement is outside of the Christian worldview and always should have been. Though I have been studying the relentless march of the gay agenda on society at large, it was not to stop it in the world. I have taught consistently that homosexuality is a behavior for those that are not concerned with Christian truth but what the world and its ways have always offered the lost. When the Supreme Court allows gay marriage in the secular world, we Christians need to go into a defensive mode immediately. I am engaged in that battle right now. It's better to prepare for your enemies beofre they are at your front door.
And it was the Supreme Court that unleashed the greatest abomination in history with its abortion on demand decision. Though its proponents have the greatest guilt for it. So even more wrong is not going to be surprising. Secularism is not leading the world to a better morality. No, it's exactly the opposite. And now, "we" are legalizing drug use and cheerining it on.
It's no surpride the metaphor, myth or reality of Sodom and Gomorrah. That Phoenix is rising yet again.
I 100% agree with that. Jesus taught well the wheat from the chaff.It's been my experience that it's only ever a handful of church members who actually DO anything that would be considered useful and for the benefit of others.
But please notice that the gay promoting Churches are yoked with unbeleivers in the hundreds of millions?
If it is to encourage sin ans sinning than those pew warmers shpuldn't have been warming the pews in the pro Gay Churches to begin with. It's no surprise when your Church starts to embrace heretical ideology.Just the mere mention of 'doing these things for the least of my brethren' would have the majority of 'pew warmers' heading for the exit.
No. I would have to become a liar to do that. I truly desire not to be a piece of chaff.So, please stop with the 'we saints' nonsense.
Everyone is a "born sinner" in Christian theology. What your gay theology is demanding (like the psychology movement that gave it license), is that everyone embrace and justify sin and sinning because a person is "born that way."The average Christian is a mere human being with human failings - as is the homosexual - just like they were born to be.
That unleashesd the very degeneate behavior we see so commonly expressed in western society today. Our public school system a good example.
99percentatheism wrote:And please, feel free to quote the New Testament.Is there any particuar quote that you'd like?99percentatheism wrote:Any that directly and clearly supports and encourages an "average Christian" to redefine marriage differently than Jesus defined it, and/or engage in homosexual sex acts.No it is not. Jesus was not talking about the samaritan woman at the well playing air hockey with all the men she wasn't married to. The woman "caught in adultery" was not playing scrabble with her adulterous sex partner. "Go, and sin no more," is literally about private sexualo behavior. Paul's advice on how to run healthy Churches is about private sexual behavior of the leadership as well. Now, if your gay folk want to remain silent about the "gay pride" which is of course a declaration of their private sexual behavior . . . then this would not be an issue of attack on Bible affirming Churches.But, both heterosexual and homosexual acts are engaged in at home in private, are they not? How do you KNOW who is engaging in what and WHY would you even be interested? This seems awful intrusive to me as well as nothing to do with determining one's status as a Christian.
C'mon KID. You need to do some prep work if you want a debate with me. Nice or not, the facts have a deep voice.
The promoting of either heterosexual sex or homosexual sex in Church is not happening.99percentatheism wrote:Or otherwise agree that the historic and biblically honest Christian position that gay sex acts and redefining marriage is inappropriate to promote in the Christian Church universal.
Firstly, How would you know? Secindly YES, that is absolutely happeing. Gay Pride is not about having a lisp and not wanting to be teased for that. It is about homosexuality being "affirmed" in the Church.
THAT is VERY inhospitable. Comes from a VERY HAUGHTY group.
Savvy the references?
WHAT?????The relationship between two people - heterosexual or homosexual - should be seen as being more than sex.
When it is a "marriage" being deamnded to be recognized, your opiniion there fails the test of credulity. Gay pride is about their sex lives. C'mon KID, I am not 12-years old.
Because truth is important to me.Intimacy between two adults should be a taboo subject to anyone else. You see 'homosexual' and immediately think of sex.
It's all in my mind? So, do you mean that there are not people that engage in homosexuality, that say that they are ONLY same gender sexually attracted do not exist? There is NO LGBT organizations pushing for "gay rights" all over ther world? That it is just a delusion in my mind?It's all in your mind, 99percent, and it's YOUR problem. Own it![/color]
Where do I get my psychotropic drugs to make the scenes in my mind go away?
Thank you KID for giving me a cure for something that doesn't exist.
I'm glad we stayed interacting with each other. I'm going to go take a nap. When I wake up, this attack on Christians and The Church by Gay Pride activists and atheists, liberals, progressives and other humanistic organizations that promote and support them will all be gone.
Oh happy days!
No more teaching children that they could be gay . . . no more public sex in beach bathrooms (or anywhere else), no more AIDS spread between guys because there is no "gay community and gay culture" of unrestrained promiscuity. No women calling themselves "lesbians" demanding to raise children without a father.
Dare I say I love you for helping me out KID?
I'm reaching for snuggie right now.
Mr. KID?
Have you retired?
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Post #1717
Moderator Comment99percentatheism wrote: Mr. KID?
Have you retired?
This would be considered an unconstructive one-liner comment.
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Post #1718
No, I haven't retired. I am, however, weary with this debate which has now become little more than forum pingpong. You refuse to acknowledge that heterosexuals, bi-sexuals and homosexuals have NOTHING to do with their particular sexual orientation. They simply ARE who they are. You refuse to accept homosexuals as who they are but instead refer to them as sexual deviants, i.e. in your ignorant view they are really deviant heterosexuals who exist for no other purpose than to p--s off Christians and thumb their noses at Christianity.99percentatheism wrote:Mr. KID?
Have you retired?
ABC2 (Australia) presented part two of The Most Hated Family In America a couple of nights ago. It's probably available on YouTube. BBC presenter, Louis Theroux, made a second visit to the Westboro Baptist Church. His first visit was several years ago. This time he found the Phelps Family to be as hate-filled as ever toward 'gays' as well as just about everyone else who isn't them. However, their numbers are dwindling as the brains of some of their brainwashed family members (previously young kids) have now kicked in. These family members have now, of course, become estranged from the main Phelps Family and they - like most everyone else in America and, indeed, the whole world - are hell-bound.
While I don't know you other than through the contents of your posts, 99percent, I couldn't help equating you with Fred and Shirley-Roper Phelps while I was watching. I imagined an encounter with you being similar to the hate-spouting crud that these individuals and their unfortunate brainwashed followers come out with. Question: What is it that sets YOU apart from these religious nuts? You might not picket funerals or stand on street corners with "GOD HATES FAGS - SEE LEVITICUS 20:13" banners but isn't your message to homosexuals exactly the same as that of the Westboro Baptist Church? If not, then how is it different?
During the course of this debate I have never shied away from presenting counter arguments (as per scripture) to your continuous demeaning tirades toward those who are who they are through no doing of their own. Perhaps YOU are who YOU are through no doing of your own also. If so, you perhaps need to acknowledge that you are self righteous and religiously arrogant and that you use the scriptures merely to serve your own self interests. I'm sure there are any number of scriptures that deal with this kind of dysfunctional personality. If you expect 'gays' to repent and 'change' (change to WHAT I haven't a clue!) then surely so can you.
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Post #1719
Thanks KCKID. Unfortunately in the past the Bible has been used to support racism and to undermine the role of women as coequals in this struggle we call life. Prejudice against homosexuals is one of the few remaining marks of the bigot that remains for a decreasing number of people who put their interpretation of Bible ahead of helping and standing up for everyone, regardless of the quality of their character.
One by one prejudices against others because of qualities they have through no choice of their own has dissipated. Race and gender have finally fallen. Even staunch foes of racial equality such as the Mormons have come around and changed official doctrine to allow all races to have acces to the Kingdom of God. The church, or rather some denominations and believers therein still preach their scriptures stand as a shield against equality.
I believe those who deny freedom to homosexuals are simply using the Bible as an excuse to support their own personal fear and hatreds.
One by one prejudices against others because of qualities they have through no choice of their own has dissipated. Race and gender have finally fallen. Even staunch foes of racial equality such as the Mormons have come around and changed official doctrine to allow all races to have acces to the Kingdom of God. The church, or rather some denominations and believers therein still preach their scriptures stand as a shield against equality.
I believe those who deny freedom to homosexuals are simply using the Bible as an excuse to support their own personal fear and hatreds.
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Post #1720
[quot]KCKID[/quote]
That is not my premise in this thread. And your premise here is that there is a congenital excuse for any behavior a person wants to justify. That seems the very formula for a Sodom and Gomorrah style society. Remember, God told Abraham why Sodom came to His attention so dramatically.
I don't know know if I can deny some of that. Without doubt, the gay community looks to be doing nothing more than trying to p--s off the Christians worldwide. It does look to be a frontal attack most of the time NOW. Especially when you see the types of people and groups they are supported and encouraged by. I guess we are not sallowed to introduce the supernatural forces arrayed against The Church on this website.
OK. Whatever. To compare Christians that oppose the gay agenda to the Phelps family shows a very definate cunning in the Churches enemies.
I expect nothing less from people like you.
Encountering brain washed people, I have come to see, is a very common experience in today's world. And of course that is what it looks like you are ascribing to me. It's interesting that you effortlessly try to fit me in that category, when it takes a concerted effort to examine oneself daily. To "test all things and hold firmly on to the truth." I have rarely encountered a modern-day adversay to The Church that is willing to do that. I do that with every accusation and charge you and yours lay on me.
Do you notice the lack of Evangelicals in these debates? And why is that? They are terrified of the encounter. I have been told that in person and in emails. This thread and other work I do on this subject, has had me going from coast to coast of late. Am I afraid? You bet I am. The consequences of not doing obeisance to the secular-progressive paradigm carries a heavy blow. The ever-present reality of one losing their job for not celebrating gay behavior is very real. Look at how easily you define me as a Phelps-like person. It isn't a knee-jerk response, it is a calculated movement.
Serioulsy? You cannot tear yourself away from your mentally conditioned response behavior to understand the OP? The fact is, I wrote it. If you cannot see the dramatic difference between me and the Phelps' family, there is nothing I can do to open your thought process to reality. I am just defining positions as they are. The OP allows for a lifetime of enfettered indulgence for homosexuals and their supporters.
It appears you will not do the same for those of us that have been born with a sexual orientation that rejects the support for homosexuality.
In other words, it is far past time for those of us Christians that are labeled homophobic, hateful and bigoted to start suing our tormentors in Civil Court. We still have the civil rights protection to do something about the bullying, tormenting and harrassment we are encountering for our choice to live as our consciences dictate.
I for one will sue the first person in real life that accuses me of being hateful, a bigot, or suffering from a phobia, because I choose to live as a Christian and preach and teach as a Christian, against homosexuality and those that engage in the behavior. It is illegal to discriminate against a persons religious beliefs.
It's just far past time for Christians to do as Saint Paul did when it came to recognition of his citizenship and rights under the law.
While also claiming that scripture is worthless? Irony is lost on that huh? You use what scripture? there is no such thing as same gender marriage supported, promoted or engaged in ANYWHERE in the Bible. And do I really have to go back and extract quotes from you demeaning the very Bible you seem to rely on?
You have to go to unimagineable machinations to make gay behavior even remotely seem justifiable in a Christian worldview. And you came up empty at the end of YOUR tirade.
Do you even think about what you think about? We are conditioned to believe what we believe.
Now think about this . . .. I have been called a closeted homosexual because I take a stand against supporting and promoting homosexuals and homosexuality "in the Church."
What does make you and the people that very much so support and encourage homosexuals and homosexuality?
By logic, "you all" should be declared homosexuals far more reasonably than me. Are you gay? A tree, after all is known by its fruit. Per Jesus.
I find this extremely common in people on your side of the divide. You don't seem to understand the differnce between confidence and hubris. The very effective arguments against gay theology, held by the vast majority of Bible believing Christians, does not come from egotism or academic haughtiness (the behavior and attitude I do see in our our adversaries) it comes from simple honesty.
There IS NO SUCH THING AS SAME GENDER MARRIAGE SUPPORTED, CONDONED, ENCOURAGED OR JUSTIFIABLE in the Bible.
YOU fail to admit that. The premise of ALL homosexual behavior being attached to a pagan ritual is laughable. It simply does not stand up to the testing. But I have noticed that in true Alinsky-style, that a mob that is focused to scream loud enough over and over again is rewarded with submission from the secular authorities.
That will never happen to the Church. There may be some denominations picked off by those tactics, but the Church Universal will never be defeated byb the world and its way.
It's heart breaking seeing what is happening to good Christians by the gay agenda. Where is the contrite spirit of the gay person coming to the Church? I don't see it. What I see and experience (and especially here from people like you) is that Christians need to kow tow to the gay culture and secular political power. How "hospitable" is that? It seems the exact opposite when examined in the light of reality.
I expect people that apply the nomenclature "Christian" to themselves, to at least be the kind of Christian described and defined in the New Testament. I am not expereincing that with gay theology. I see a version of secular-humanism dressed up priestly in a cowed room of the apathetic.
And YES, repentance of homosexual behavior is to be done. It is to be jettisoned.
I could ascribe to you personally all sorts of darkness like you have done to me over and over again and still are in comparing me to Phelps and his lot.
But that is not what THIS thread is about. Although I have solid experience with the character assassination tactics of the commited agendaist.
This thread is about the antithetical nature of gay culture invading the Church by force. It is the calling out (no pun intended) of the kind of theology that is behind the incessant desires to make The Church another version of progressive-secular-humanism political and social aspirations and doing that in well-defined and solidly identified and identifiable places that call themselves "Churches" is the premise.
I would think that a person as committed - as you portray you are - to tolerance and diversity, would have been a supporter of that endeavor.
But alas . . .
99percentatheism wrote:Mr. KID?
Have you retired?
Every thread here is "forum pingpong." It's what debate is. You don't think people are here looking for pals do you? And, I am very glad that you are weary. I never tire of contending for the faith. I am glad my endurance is paying off.No, I haven't retired. I am, however, weary with this debate which has now become little more than forum pingpong.
.You refuse to acknowledge that heterosexuals, bi-sexuals and homosexuals have NOTHING to do with their particular sexual orientation. They simply ARE who they are
That is not my premise in this thread. And your premise here is that there is a congenital excuse for any behavior a person wants to justify. That seems the very formula for a Sodom and Gomorrah style society. Remember, God told Abraham why Sodom came to His attention so dramatically.
You refuse to accept homosexuals as who they are but instead refer to them as sexual deviants, i.e. in your ignorant view they are really deviant heterosexuals who exist for no other purpose than to p--s off Christians and thumb their noses at Christianity.
I don't know know if I can deny some of that. Without doubt, the gay community looks to be doing nothing more than trying to p--s off the Christians worldwide. It does look to be a frontal attack most of the time NOW. Especially when you see the types of people and groups they are supported and encouraged by. I guess we are not sallowed to introduce the supernatural forces arrayed against The Church on this website.
ABC2 (Australia) presented part two of The Most Hated Family In America a couple of nights ago. It's probably available on YouTube. BBC presenter, Louis Theroux, made a second visit to the Westboro Baptist Church. His first visit was several years ago. This time he found the Phelps Family to be as hate-filled as ever toward 'gays' as well as just about everyone else who isn't them. However, their numbers are dwindling as the brains of some of their brainwashed family members (previously young kids) have now kicked in. These family members have now, of course, become estranged from the main Phelps Family and they - like most everyone else in America and, indeed, the whole world - are hell-bound.
OK. Whatever. To compare Christians that oppose the gay agenda to the Phelps family shows a very definate cunning in the Churches enemies.
While I don't know you other than through the contents of your posts, 99percent, I couldn't help equating you with Fred and Shirley-Roper Phelps while I was watching.
I expect nothing less from people like you.
I imagined an encounter with you being similar to the hate-spouting crud that these individuals and their unfortunate brainwashed followers come out with.
Encountering brain washed people, I have come to see, is a very common experience in today's world. And of course that is what it looks like you are ascribing to me. It's interesting that you effortlessly try to fit me in that category, when it takes a concerted effort to examine oneself daily. To "test all things and hold firmly on to the truth." I have rarely encountered a modern-day adversay to The Church that is willing to do that. I do that with every accusation and charge you and yours lay on me.
Do you notice the lack of Evangelicals in these debates? And why is that? They are terrified of the encounter. I have been told that in person and in emails. This thread and other work I do on this subject, has had me going from coast to coast of late. Am I afraid? You bet I am. The consequences of not doing obeisance to the secular-progressive paradigm carries a heavy blow. The ever-present reality of one losing their job for not celebrating gay behavior is very real. Look at how easily you define me as a Phelps-like person. It isn't a knee-jerk response, it is a calculated movement.
Question: What is it that sets YOU apart from these religious nuts? You might not picket funerals or stand on street corners with "GOD HATES FAGS - SEE LEVITICUS 20:13" banners but isn't your message to homosexuals exactly the same as that of the Westboro Baptist Church? If not, then how is it different?
Serioulsy? You cannot tear yourself away from your mentally conditioned response behavior to understand the OP? The fact is, I wrote it. If you cannot see the dramatic difference between me and the Phelps' family, there is nothing I can do to open your thought process to reality. I am just defining positions as they are. The OP allows for a lifetime of enfettered indulgence for homosexuals and their supporters.
It appears you will not do the same for those of us that have been born with a sexual orientation that rejects the support for homosexuality.
In other words, it is far past time for those of us Christians that are labeled homophobic, hateful and bigoted to start suing our tormentors in Civil Court. We still have the civil rights protection to do something about the bullying, tormenting and harrassment we are encountering for our choice to live as our consciences dictate.
I for one will sue the first person in real life that accuses me of being hateful, a bigot, or suffering from a phobia, because I choose to live as a Christian and preach and teach as a Christian, against homosexuality and those that engage in the behavior. It is illegal to discriminate against a persons religious beliefs.
And I couldn't care less what is "added" to that list.Today, according to the U. S. Government Manual of 1998-99, the EEOC enforces laws that prohibit discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability, or age in hiring, promoting, firing, setting wages, testing, training, apprenticeship, and all other terms and conditions of employment.
- http://www.archives.gov/education/lesso ... ights-act/
It's just far past time for Christians to do as Saint Paul did when it came to recognition of his citizenship and rights under the law.
During the course of this debate I have never shied away from presenting counter arguments (as per scripture) to your continuous demeaning tirades toward those who are who they are through no doing of their own.
While also claiming that scripture is worthless? Irony is lost on that huh? You use what scripture? there is no such thing as same gender marriage supported, promoted or engaged in ANYWHERE in the Bible. And do I really have to go back and extract quotes from you demeaning the very Bible you seem to rely on?
You have to go to unimagineable machinations to make gay behavior even remotely seem justifiable in a Christian worldview. And you came up empty at the end of YOUR tirade.
Do you even think about what you think about? We are conditioned to believe what we believe.
Now think about this . . .. I have been called a closeted homosexual because I take a stand against supporting and promoting homosexuals and homosexuality "in the Church."
What does make you and the people that very much so support and encourage homosexuals and homosexuality?
By logic, "you all" should be declared homosexuals far more reasonably than me. Are you gay? A tree, after all is known by its fruit. Per Jesus.
Perhaps YOU are who YOU are through no doing of your own also. If so, you perhaps need to acknowledge that you are self righteous and religiously arrogant and that you use the scriptures merely to serve your own self interests.
I find this extremely common in people on your side of the divide. You don't seem to understand the differnce between confidence and hubris. The very effective arguments against gay theology, held by the vast majority of Bible believing Christians, does not come from egotism or academic haughtiness (the behavior and attitude I do see in our our adversaries) it comes from simple honesty.
There IS NO SUCH THING AS SAME GENDER MARRIAGE SUPPORTED, CONDONED, ENCOURAGED OR JUSTIFIABLE in the Bible.
YOU fail to admit that. The premise of ALL homosexual behavior being attached to a pagan ritual is laughable. It simply does not stand up to the testing. But I have noticed that in true Alinsky-style, that a mob that is focused to scream loud enough over and over again is rewarded with submission from the secular authorities.
That will never happen to the Church. There may be some denominations picked off by those tactics, but the Church Universal will never be defeated byb the world and its way.
It's heart breaking seeing what is happening to good Christians by the gay agenda. Where is the contrite spirit of the gay person coming to the Church? I don't see it. What I see and experience (and especially here from people like you) is that Christians need to kow tow to the gay culture and secular political power. How "hospitable" is that? It seems the exact opposite when examined in the light of reality.
See how easiliy you attack me? So effortlessly that you feel a hero in the making.[color]I'm sure there are any number of scriptures that deal with this kind of dysfunctional personality. If you expect 'gays' to repent and 'change' (change to WHAT I haven't a clue!) then surely so can you.[/color]
I expect people that apply the nomenclature "Christian" to themselves, to at least be the kind of Christian described and defined in the New Testament. I am not expereincing that with gay theology. I see a version of secular-humanism dressed up priestly in a cowed room of the apathetic.
And YES, repentance of homosexual behavior is to be done. It is to be jettisoned.
I could ascribe to you personally all sorts of darkness like you have done to me over and over again and still are in comparing me to Phelps and his lot.
But that is not what THIS thread is about. Although I have solid experience with the character assassination tactics of the commited agendaist.
This thread is about the antithetical nature of gay culture invading the Church by force. It is the calling out (no pun intended) of the kind of theology that is behind the incessant desires to make The Church another version of progressive-secular-humanism political and social aspirations and doing that in well-defined and solidly identified and identifiable places that call themselves "Churches" is the premise.
I would think that a person as committed - as you portray you are - to tolerance and diversity, would have been a supporter of that endeavor.
But alas . . .