Why is "born this way" important for homosexuality

[jgh7]

It's a heavily debated topic whether homosexuals are born this way or not. A lot of arguments over their rights hinge on this factor.

My question is: why is this important and relevant for homosexual rights? Let's say a homosexual came out and said he wasn't born this way. He says that over the course of puberty he developed to become attracted to the same sex.

What rights would he lose out on that homosexuals who were born homosexual would still be entitled to have?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 10 by Aetixintro]

The point of my two questions was to find out if you had evidence to support the claims you made earlier. It is clear at this point that you don't.

[Bust Nak]

For all that I've done in science, I must be allowed to utter this by suspicion. Clearly, torture against babies occur, but what exactly are the effects on them, before and after? I can't see that this question is so easily answered and most certainly one can not go about torturing babies to find out either (because evil in the name of science is banned by criminal law and for ethical/moral concerns if nothing else).

Well I don't know about babies but the experiment has already been performed on young people. You might have heard of "conversion therapy" and its abysmal record.

[marco]

It's a heavily debated topic whether homosexuals are born this way or not. A lot of arguments over their rights hinge on this factor.

My question is: why is this important and relevant for homosexual rights? Let's say a homosexual came out and said he wasn't born this way. He says that over the course of puberty he developed to become attracted to the same sex.

What rights would he lose out on that homosexuals who were born homosexual would still be entitled to have?

It WAS heavily debated before we stopped judicially killing homosexuals. I think it is not hard to see that one's orientation can be in one direction or in another or anywhere in between. Human beings demonstrate this. It seems simplistic and silly to suggest that David bumped his head and because homosexual.


Western society (we might as well forget others, where homosexuals can be thrown from tall buildings or kept in prison) has been remarkably cruel, as with Alan Turing. If homosexuals now have rights undreamt of by people who suffered in the past, then it is a wrong partially righted.

I think it is important to accept that homosexuals are what they are and possibly have been for as long as they were able to determine. The only people this seems to bother are religious folk fighting on behalf of divine prejudice.

[2ndRateMind]

It's a heavily debated topic whether homosexuals are born this way or not. A lot of arguments over their rights hinge on this factor.

My question is: why is this important and relevant for homosexual rights? ...

This is largely a matter of conservative prejudice versus liberal enlightenment.

To show that homosexuality is a sin, it must be shown to be a free choice, or homosexuals are not culpable.

To show that homosexuality is not a sin, it must be shown to be determined by nature, nurture, or some complex interplay of the two, or homosexuals are culpable.

My own tendency, as a heterosexual, is to lean towards the liberal. I am sexually attracted to beautiful females. I am not sexually attracted to handsome males. That is just the way I am, and I can sympathise entirely with homosexuals who have the opposite attractions when they claim that that is just the way they are.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by jgh7]

I wonder why one would think a different person is entitled to any different rights than anyone else?
Why does this person need a special right because they are tall. Or fat. Or of a different race. Gay, bi or whatever?

I get that certain people don't have the same rights as others, but that's the problem: everyone who is equal should have equal, basic rights. But that's not how it is in a lot of cases. That's the bigger question to me.

You have 2 people, same age, weight, height, gender...everything (except DNA) is the same except for one item. Why does one think that one item eliminates them from having the same basic rights? Likewise, why does that other person think that one difference gives them the ability to have an additional basic right than anyone else?
I'm not talking about difference in parking spots for handicapped or things like that. I'm talking about the ability to vote, have kids, live where you want (and can afford) work where you want, shop where you want, etc.

It boggles my mind to think that someone thinks they are 'better' than someone else simply because that other person is gay/tall/fat/female/black/native/etc.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 15 by Menotu]

Bravo, Menotu! Our similarities, though they might seem taken for granted, are so much more relevant and prevalent than our differences.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 16 by 2ndRateMind]

Thank you
I would think that if more people focused on how we are more similar than not, there would be a lot less hate and negativity in the world. Think of what could be accomplished if people thought that way!

[Icey]

It's a heavily debated topic whether homosexuals are born this way or not. A lot of arguments over their rights hinge on this factor.

My question is: why is this important and relevant for homosexual rights? Let's say a homosexual came out and said he wasn't born this way. He says that over the course of puberty he developed to become attracted to the same sex.

What rights would he lose out on that homosexuals who were born homosexual would still be entitled to have?

I don't know any gay person that want to be treated differently than straight people. They want to be able to live their lives, buy property, keep a job/apartment, date whom they want, go where they want, visit their loved ones when they're sick, etc.
Some demand special rules, but that's not only seen within gay people - it happens in all aspects of life (gender, sexuality, race, age, height, religion, hair color, the list is almost endless).
The whole 'being born this way' is a misnomer, IMO. No one is born with sexuality right then-and-there. It develops over time. At some point, a person decides 'I think this (or that). This is what so many say is 'being born this way'. Which is true in a sense, but used improperly.
People make it SO much more difficult than it really is.

[2ndRateMind]

It's a heavily debated topic whether homosexuals are born this way or not. A lot of arguments over their rights hinge on this factor.

My question is: why is this important and relevant for homosexual rights? Let's say a homosexual came out and said he wasn't born this way. He says that over the course of puberty he developed to become attracted to the same sex.

What rights would he lose out on that homosexuals who were born homosexual would still be entitled to have?

The whole 'being born this way' is a misnomer, IMO. No one is born with sexuality right then-and-there. It develops over time.

Agreed. But no-one, as a babe in arms, has a specific sexuality. It is something one develops into. And, I suspect, develops that way according to one's nature and nurture. And if one's nature is not something one is born with, I do not see how anything else might be.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Miles]

It's a heavily debated topic whether homosexuals are born this way or not. A lot of arguments over their rights hinge on this factor.

My question is: why is this important and relevant for homosexual rights? Let's say a homosexual came out and said he wasn't born this way. He says that over the course of puberty he developed to become attracted to the same sex.

What rights would he lose out on that homosexuals who were born homosexual would still be entitled to have?

The whole 'being born this way' is a misnomer, IMO. No one is born with sexuality right then-and-there. It develops over time.

Agreed. But no-one, as a babe in arms, has a specific sexuality. It is something one develops into. And, I suspect, develops that way according to one's nature and nurture. And if one's nature is not something one is born with, I do not see how anything else might be.

Best wishes, 2RM.

FYI, jgh7 no longer exists on Debating Christianity and Religion.

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