.
Hello;
Back around 2000 or 2001; I got the daring idea to begin composing a daily, bite-size commentary on the book of Genesis. It was a clumsy effort at first but I stuck with it and as time went by, it got pretty good. On some forums where I've survived opposition long enough to complete the whole fifty chapters, Genesis has attracted several thousand views.
As of today's date, I'm 76 years old; and an on-going student of the Bible since 1968 via sermons, seminars, lectures, Sunday school classes, radio Bible programs, and various authors of a number of Bible-related books. Fifty-two years of Bible under my belt hasn't made me an authority; but they've at least made me competent enough to tackle Genesis.
Barring emergencies, accidents, vacations, unforeseen circumstances, and/or insurmountable distractions, database errors, pandemic shut-downs, computer crashes, black outs, brown outs, deaths in the family, Wall Street Armageddon, thread hijackers, excessive quarrelling and debating, the dog ate my homework, visiting relatives, ISIS, car repairs, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, student walk-outs, Carrington events, gasoline prices, medical issues, and/or hard luck and the forces of nature; I'm making an effort to post something every day including Sundays and holidays.
Some really good stuff is in Genesis: the origin of the cosmos, Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, the Flood, tower of Babel, and the origin of the Jews.
Big-name celebrities like Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac and Ishmael, Rebecca, Jacob and Esau, and Joseph are here.
Not here are Moses vs. Pharaoh and the parting of the Red Sea. That story is in Exodus; Samson and Delilah are in Judges, David and Goliath are in 1Samuel; and Ruth and Esther are in books of the Bible named after them.
The author of Genesis is currently unknown; but commonly attributed to Moses. Seeing as he penned Exodus (Mark 12:26) it's conceivable that Moses also penned Genesis; but in reality, nobody really knows for sure.
Scholars have estimated the date of its writing at around 1450-1410 BC; a mere 3,400± years ago, which is pretty recent in the grand scheme of Earth's geological history.
Genesis may in fact be the result of several contributors beginning as far back as Adam himself; who would certainly know more about the creation than anybody, and who entertained no doubts whatsoever about the existence of an intelligent designer since he knew the creator Himself like a next door neighbor.
As time went by, others like Seth and Noah would add their own experiences to the record, and then Abraham his, Isaac his, Jacob his, and finally Judah or one of his descendants completing the record with Joseph's burial.
Genesis is quoted more than sixty times in the New Testament; and Christ authenticated its Divine inspiration by referring to it in his own teachings. (e.g. Matt 19:4-6, Matt 24:37-39, Mk 10:4-9, Luke 11:49-51, Luke 17:26 29 & 32, John 7:21-23, John 8:44 and John 8:56)
Buen Camino
(Pleasant Journey)
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Genesis For The Mildly Curious
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #51.
• Gen 4:17a . . Cain knew his wife,
According to Gen 3:20 and Acts 17:26, all human beings-- regardless of race, color and/or ethnic identity --are Adam's and Eve's biological progeny. Ergo: Cain married his kin; whether a sister or a niece is difficult to know for sure.
NOTE: Scientists have identified 100,000 pieces of retrovirus DNA in human genes, making up eight percent of the genome. As to whether those retroviruses have contributed to the shortening of the human life span, I don't know; but I'd bet that those bugs were not in the human genome at first. I think it safe to say that the current human genome is a malfunctioning genome, and has been for quite a number of years; possibly several millennia.
Now, as to the "sin" of incest; according to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17, divine laws enacted ex post facto are too late; viz: they aren't enforced until after they're codified. Well, incest wasn't prohibited until the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
• Gen 4:17b . . and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he then founded a city, and named the city after his son Enoch.
The "city" probably wasn't the kind of city we're used to thinking. The word for it is from 'iyr (eer) and simply means a community, in the widest sense; even of a mere encampment or post.
Whether Cain actually lived in a permanent settlement is doubtful since he was stuck with vagrancy and wandering. Cain's city was very likely nothing more than a migratory village.
• Gen 4:18-19 . .To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad begot Mehujael, and Mehujael begot Methusael, and Methusael begot Lamech. Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other was Zillah.
Adah is from 'Adah (aw-daw') and means: ornament. It's not unusual for people to name their little girls after precious stones like Jewel, Pearl, Ruby, Jade, Emerald, Sapphire, and Amber.
Zillah is from tsillah (tsil-law') which is derived from tsel (tsale) and means: shade (or shadow), whether literal or figurative. Shade is a good thing in sunny locales so Zillah's name may have been associated with shelter, protection, peace, serenity, and rest-- as in Song 2:3.
Lamech's marriages are the very first incidence of polygamy in the Bible, and I have yet to see a passage in the Old Testament where God forbids it other than the restrictions imposed upon Jewish monarchs. (Deut 17:17 cf. 2Sam 12:8)
Aside from the obvious sensual benefits men derive from harems; polygamy does have its practical side. The gestation period for human beings is nine months. At that rate, it would take a man many years to build up his clan to a respectable size. But with multiple wives, he could speed things up considerably. In primitive cultures, large families are very influential, and their numbers crucial to survival and self preservation.
"Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are sons born to a man in his youth. Happy is the man who fills his quiver with them; they shall not be put to shame when they contend with the enemy in the gate." (Ps 127:4-5)
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• Gen 4:17a . . Cain knew his wife,
According to Gen 3:20 and Acts 17:26, all human beings-- regardless of race, color and/or ethnic identity --are Adam's and Eve's biological progeny. Ergo: Cain married his kin; whether a sister or a niece is difficult to know for sure.
NOTE: Scientists have identified 100,000 pieces of retrovirus DNA in human genes, making up eight percent of the genome. As to whether those retroviruses have contributed to the shortening of the human life span, I don't know; but I'd bet that those bugs were not in the human genome at first. I think it safe to say that the current human genome is a malfunctioning genome, and has been for quite a number of years; possibly several millennia.
Now, as to the "sin" of incest; according to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17, divine laws enacted ex post facto are too late; viz: they aren't enforced until after they're codified. Well, incest wasn't prohibited until the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
• Gen 4:17b . . and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he then founded a city, and named the city after his son Enoch.
The "city" probably wasn't the kind of city we're used to thinking. The word for it is from 'iyr (eer) and simply means a community, in the widest sense; even of a mere encampment or post.
Whether Cain actually lived in a permanent settlement is doubtful since he was stuck with vagrancy and wandering. Cain's city was very likely nothing more than a migratory village.
• Gen 4:18-19 . .To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad begot Mehujael, and Mehujael begot Methusael, and Methusael begot Lamech. Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other was Zillah.
Adah is from 'Adah (aw-daw') and means: ornament. It's not unusual for people to name their little girls after precious stones like Jewel, Pearl, Ruby, Jade, Emerald, Sapphire, and Amber.
Zillah is from tsillah (tsil-law') which is derived from tsel (tsale) and means: shade (or shadow), whether literal or figurative. Shade is a good thing in sunny locales so Zillah's name may have been associated with shelter, protection, peace, serenity, and rest-- as in Song 2:3.
Lamech's marriages are the very first incidence of polygamy in the Bible, and I have yet to see a passage in the Old Testament where God forbids it other than the restrictions imposed upon Jewish monarchs. (Deut 17:17 cf. 2Sam 12:8)
Aside from the obvious sensual benefits men derive from harems; polygamy does have its practical side. The gestation period for human beings is nine months. At that rate, it would take a man many years to build up his clan to a respectable size. But with multiple wives, he could speed things up considerably. In primitive cultures, large families are very influential, and their numbers crucial to survival and self preservation.
"Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are sons born to a man in his youth. Happy is the man who fills his quiver with them; they shall not be put to shame when they contend with the enemy in the gate." (Ps 127:4-5)
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #52.
• Gen 4:20 . . Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who dwell in tents and amidst herds.
This is the Bible's very first mention of man-made portable shelters. Tents, teepees, wigwams, etc; make it possible to roam long distances in relative comfort while searching for foods and pastures.
Abraham and Sarah were housed in portable shelters the whole time they lived in Canaan. With portable shelters, Enochville could be a mobile community, staying in one place only long enough to deplete its natural resources before moving on to better diggings to invade, plunder, exploit, pollute, and depredate.
Jabal wasn't the father of animal husbandry as the passage seems to suggest. Abel was already tending flocks before Jabal was born (Gen 4:2). Dwelling "amidst" herds describes the lifestyle of North America's early plains Indians; whose livelihood depended a great deal upon wild buffalo. Though they followed the herds, the Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapaho, Kiowa, Crow, Blackfoot, Comanche, and Shoshone, et el; didn't actually raise any of their own buffalo like on a ranch.
Dwelling amidst herds is a nomadic way of life rather than one that's domesticated; hence the need for portable shelters; and the herds (e.g. deer, elk, wild goats, antelope, wildebeests, et al) would provide fabric for not only the tents, but also for shoes and clothing; which would need replacement quite often.
One of Lewis' and Clark's complaints, when they were passing through the Oregon territory, was that moccasins rotted off their feet in the Northwest's climate. Even without rot, the soles of moccasins are not all that resistant to wear. Buckskins, manufactured from Elk hide and/or deerskin, fared little better.
• Gen 4:21 . . And the name of his brother was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all who play the lyre and the pipe.
The word for "ancestor" is from 'ab (awb); a primitive word which means father, in a literal and immediate, or figurative and remote application. In this particular case, 'ab wouldn't mean literal kin, but likely analogous to an inventor who is the first to introduce a new concept which then later becomes widely adopted.
The word for "lyre" is from kinnowr (kin-nore') and means: to twang. So the actual instrument itself is difficult to identify. It could have been a harp. But then again, it may have even been something as simple as a string stretched between a washtub and a broom stick.
A stringed instrument is a pretty advanced musical tool and certainly not something you would expect to find among so primitive a people as the antediluvians. The interesting thing about a twanging instrument is its string. How did the Cainites make them? Of what material?
String can be made from plant fibers. For example the ancient Kumeyaay (Koom'-yi) people of southern California made surprisingly strong, sturdy twine for bows and baskets from agave leaves.
The word for "pipe" is from 'uwgab (oo-gawb') and means: a reed-instrument of music.
A modern reed instrument is typically a woodwind that produces sound by vibrating a thin strip of wood against the mouthpiece; like clarinets and saxophones (hence the classification: woodwinds). But in that culture, it could very well have been something as simple as a tube whistle made from a single hollow section of plant stem; or several of those bundled together like a Pan flute.
• Gen 4:22a . . As for Zillah, she bore Tubal-cain, who forged all implements of copper and iron.
Copper, in its natural form, is too soft and pliable for practical purposes; but it's a classification of metals called work-hardening. In other words, by pounding or rolling cold copper, its mechanical properties can be greatly improved. It probably didn't take Mr. Tubal-cain long to figure that out.
Adding a little tin to copper produces bronze, which is much stronger and tougher than pure copper.
Copper's advantage in cooking is its natural heat conduction, which is very fast as compared to iron and/or steel. It's also an excellent conductor of electricity, but unless they were bottling lightening in those days, copper's electrical properties would have to wait for future exploitation.
Iron, though stronger and harder than copper, is relatively soft and pliable in its natural condition too; but with the addition of small amounts of carbon, it becomes steel, which is quite a bit tougher than natural iron. Whether Tubal-cain figured that out is difficult to know for sure.
• Gen 4:22b . . And the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
Her name is from Na'amah (nah-am-aw') which means pleasant, amiable, or agreeable. A girl named Joy would probably fit that category. Na'amah suggests that the people of Enochville were content with their way of life.
So all in all, Enochville, though unproductive in agriculture, prospered through manufacturing and commerce instead; trading the goods and services of their industrial base for much needed produce; the same way that most urbanites still do even today. People in towns and cities typically don't support themselves directly from nature. They earn a medium of exchange in some sort of skill or profession, then trade it with merchants to buy the things they need to survive.
The technological, and cultural, level of early Man was very high. It's interesting that the identifying marks which evolutionary anthropologists use to denote the emergence of a stone age culture into a civilized society were extant prior to the Flood-- animal husbandry, agriculture, trades, urbanization, music, and metallurgy. All these civilizational technologies emerged very early: within just a few generations of Adam; rather than thousands upon thousands of years of human development.
I'm not saying there were never any "stone-age" peoples. Obviously there were. But though Cain's community may have started out as cave men, by Noah's day they were past primitive conditions and actually pretty advanced.
It's too bad the Flood wiped early Man off the map. Who can tell what he might have accomplished had his progress not been interrupted (cf. Gen 11:6).
_
• Gen 4:20 . . Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who dwell in tents and amidst herds.
This is the Bible's very first mention of man-made portable shelters. Tents, teepees, wigwams, etc; make it possible to roam long distances in relative comfort while searching for foods and pastures.
Abraham and Sarah were housed in portable shelters the whole time they lived in Canaan. With portable shelters, Enochville could be a mobile community, staying in one place only long enough to deplete its natural resources before moving on to better diggings to invade, plunder, exploit, pollute, and depredate.
Jabal wasn't the father of animal husbandry as the passage seems to suggest. Abel was already tending flocks before Jabal was born (Gen 4:2). Dwelling "amidst" herds describes the lifestyle of North America's early plains Indians; whose livelihood depended a great deal upon wild buffalo. Though they followed the herds, the Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapaho, Kiowa, Crow, Blackfoot, Comanche, and Shoshone, et el; didn't actually raise any of their own buffalo like on a ranch.
Dwelling amidst herds is a nomadic way of life rather than one that's domesticated; hence the need for portable shelters; and the herds (e.g. deer, elk, wild goats, antelope, wildebeests, et al) would provide fabric for not only the tents, but also for shoes and clothing; which would need replacement quite often.
One of Lewis' and Clark's complaints, when they were passing through the Oregon territory, was that moccasins rotted off their feet in the Northwest's climate. Even without rot, the soles of moccasins are not all that resistant to wear. Buckskins, manufactured from Elk hide and/or deerskin, fared little better.
• Gen 4:21 . . And the name of his brother was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all who play the lyre and the pipe.
The word for "ancestor" is from 'ab (awb); a primitive word which means father, in a literal and immediate, or figurative and remote application. In this particular case, 'ab wouldn't mean literal kin, but likely analogous to an inventor who is the first to introduce a new concept which then later becomes widely adopted.
The word for "lyre" is from kinnowr (kin-nore') and means: to twang. So the actual instrument itself is difficult to identify. It could have been a harp. But then again, it may have even been something as simple as a string stretched between a washtub and a broom stick.
A stringed instrument is a pretty advanced musical tool and certainly not something you would expect to find among so primitive a people as the antediluvians. The interesting thing about a twanging instrument is its string. How did the Cainites make them? Of what material?
String can be made from plant fibers. For example the ancient Kumeyaay (Koom'-yi) people of southern California made surprisingly strong, sturdy twine for bows and baskets from agave leaves.
The word for "pipe" is from 'uwgab (oo-gawb') and means: a reed-instrument of music.
A modern reed instrument is typically a woodwind that produces sound by vibrating a thin strip of wood against the mouthpiece; like clarinets and saxophones (hence the classification: woodwinds). But in that culture, it could very well have been something as simple as a tube whistle made from a single hollow section of plant stem; or several of those bundled together like a Pan flute.
• Gen 4:22a . . As for Zillah, she bore Tubal-cain, who forged all implements of copper and iron.
Copper, in its natural form, is too soft and pliable for practical purposes; but it's a classification of metals called work-hardening. In other words, by pounding or rolling cold copper, its mechanical properties can be greatly improved. It probably didn't take Mr. Tubal-cain long to figure that out.
Adding a little tin to copper produces bronze, which is much stronger and tougher than pure copper.
Copper's advantage in cooking is its natural heat conduction, which is very fast as compared to iron and/or steel. It's also an excellent conductor of electricity, but unless they were bottling lightening in those days, copper's electrical properties would have to wait for future exploitation.
Iron, though stronger and harder than copper, is relatively soft and pliable in its natural condition too; but with the addition of small amounts of carbon, it becomes steel, which is quite a bit tougher than natural iron. Whether Tubal-cain figured that out is difficult to know for sure.
• Gen 4:22b . . And the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
Her name is from Na'amah (nah-am-aw') which means pleasant, amiable, or agreeable. A girl named Joy would probably fit that category. Na'amah suggests that the people of Enochville were content with their way of life.
So all in all, Enochville, though unproductive in agriculture, prospered through manufacturing and commerce instead; trading the goods and services of their industrial base for much needed produce; the same way that most urbanites still do even today. People in towns and cities typically don't support themselves directly from nature. They earn a medium of exchange in some sort of skill or profession, then trade it with merchants to buy the things they need to survive.
The technological, and cultural, level of early Man was very high. It's interesting that the identifying marks which evolutionary anthropologists use to denote the emergence of a stone age culture into a civilized society were extant prior to the Flood-- animal husbandry, agriculture, trades, urbanization, music, and metallurgy. All these civilizational technologies emerged very early: within just a few generations of Adam; rather than thousands upon thousands of years of human development.
I'm not saying there were never any "stone-age" peoples. Obviously there were. But though Cain's community may have started out as cave men, by Noah's day they were past primitive conditions and actually pretty advanced.
It's too bad the Flood wiped early Man off the map. Who can tell what he might have accomplished had his progress not been interrupted (cf. Gen 11:6).
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #53.
• Gen 4:23-24 . . And Lamech said to his wives: Adah and Zillah, hear my voice! O wives of Lamech, give ear to my speech! I have slain a man for wounding me, and a lad for bruising me. If Cain is avenged sevenfold, then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.
Brag, Brag, Brag-- boy, I tell you some men sure love to show off and glorify themselves in front of women; no doubt about it.
Apparently ol' Lamech figured the homicide he committed wasn't nearly as severe as Cain's because he killed in retribution; whereas Cain killed in a rage. Also, Cain killed his kid brother, whereas Lamech killed his relative a little more distant. So to Lamech's way of thinking, Cain's killing was a much more serious crime; and if a dirty rotten scoundrel like gramps was under divine protections, then, in Lamech's mind, he certainly deserved to be under them even more so.
It almost appears that Lamech killed two people, but really it was only one; and in fact a person younger than himself. Two words describe Lamech's opponent. The first word is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and simply means a mortal; viz: a human being (of either gender), in general (singly or collectively); viz: someone and/or somebody. The second word reveals the person's age. The word for "lad" is yeled (yeh'-led) and means something born, i.e. a lad or offspring-- boy, child, fruit, son, young one and/or young man.
Apparently Lamech got in a disagreement with somebody and they settled their differences in a fight. The injury Lamech received in the ensuing scuffle could have been something as simple as the man biting his ear or kicking him in the groin. It's my guess Lamech over-reacted and stabbed the man to death with a spiffy hunting knife that his son Tubal-cain made for him over in the blacksmith shop.
Lamech's sense of right and wrong reflects the humanistic conscience of a man void of God's mentoring. In his earthly mind, revenge was an okay thing; which is a common attitude in many primitive cultures.
But his opponent only wounded him. In return, Lamech took his life. The scales of justice don't balance in a situation like that-- they tip. Pure law says eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning, stripe for stripe, life for life, and no more. If the lad's intent was obviously upon great bodily harm; Lamech would probably be justified to kill in self defense since his opponent was a younger man and had the advantage in age. However, according to Lamech's own testimony, he killed the man in revenge; not self defense.
Cain's side of the Adams family is characterized by technology, invention, boasting, achievement, commerce, and violence. But not one word is recorded concerning its association with, nor its interest in, their maker. Cain's entire community was impious and went on to be completely destroyed right down to the last man, woman, and child in Noah's flood. No one survives him today.
The Bible doesn't record even one single incident of a Cainite blessing God for His goodness; nor for His mercy, nor for His providence. There is no record that any of them ever said even one single prayer-- not even a simple lay-me-down-to-sleep kind of prayer. Every one of the little kids in Enochville went to bed each night without the slightest assurance that humanity's creator cared at all for the well being of their little souls.
How many homes right here today in modern America reflect that very same Cainish culture? The parents and the children are unthankful, unholy, and irreligious; caring little or nothing for things of eternal value: moving towards an inevitable head-on rendezvous with death and the hereafter, and totally unprepared to meet their maker.
• Gen 4:25 . . And Adam had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, for, she said, "God has appointed me another offspring in place of Abel; for Cain killed him."
Seth's name in Hebrew basically means a substitute, defined by Webster's as a person or thing that takes the place or function of another; e.g. substitute teachers, generic medications, pinch hitters, and/or after-market car parts.
Apparently Eve was still anticipating that she herself would be the woman to give birth to the man promised by God to defeat the Serpent's wiles. (Gen 3:15)
• Gen 4:26a . . And to Seth, in turn, a son was born, and he named him Enosh.
Sometimes the record shows the mother naming a child, and sometimes the father; which suggests that in all cases there was very likely mutual consultation between husband and wife on this important decision. But it's always important for the father to take a hand in naming the children because the act testifies that he's legally, and officially, accepted them as his own. (e.g. Gen 16:15, Gen 21:3, Luke 1:13, Luke 1:63)
NOTE: God instructed both Joseph and Mary to give her baby the name Jesus (Matt 1:21, Luke 1:31). By doing so, Jesus went on record as both their son rather than only Mary's. (Luke 1:32, (Matt 17:5)
God also selected Ishmael's name (Gen 16:11) Isaac's (Gen 17:19) and Solomon's too (1Chron 22:9) changed Abraham's name (Gen 17:5) changed Sarah's name (Gen 17:15) and changed Jacob's name (Gen 32:28).
Christ changed Peter's name (Mark 3:16). Way out in the future, Christ will be changing quite a few names. (Rev 2:17)
"Enosh" is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and means: a mortal; hence a man in general, singly or collectively-- thus differing from the more dignified 'adam (aw-dawm') which is the proper name of the human race (Gen 5:2). There's really nothing special about an 'enowsh-- just a feller. Sometimes boys are named Guy, or Buddy, so 'enowsh would be a common enough name.
• Gen 4:26b . .Then men began to call on the name of The Lord.
The Hebrew word for "Lord" in this case is Jehovah (a.k.a. Yahweh); which always, and without exception, refers to the one true god.
Apparently up to this point in time, people addressed God in a sort of general way instead of a personal way, and some still do. For example; during the Native American funeral service held for my No.1 nephew, a tribal elder prayed to God as "Grandfather" rather than by a personal moniker like Shiva or some such.
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• Gen 4:23-24 . . And Lamech said to his wives: Adah and Zillah, hear my voice! O wives of Lamech, give ear to my speech! I have slain a man for wounding me, and a lad for bruising me. If Cain is avenged sevenfold, then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.
Brag, Brag, Brag-- boy, I tell you some men sure love to show off and glorify themselves in front of women; no doubt about it.
Apparently ol' Lamech figured the homicide he committed wasn't nearly as severe as Cain's because he killed in retribution; whereas Cain killed in a rage. Also, Cain killed his kid brother, whereas Lamech killed his relative a little more distant. So to Lamech's way of thinking, Cain's killing was a much more serious crime; and if a dirty rotten scoundrel like gramps was under divine protections, then, in Lamech's mind, he certainly deserved to be under them even more so.
It almost appears that Lamech killed two people, but really it was only one; and in fact a person younger than himself. Two words describe Lamech's opponent. The first word is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and simply means a mortal; viz: a human being (of either gender), in general (singly or collectively); viz: someone and/or somebody. The second word reveals the person's age. The word for "lad" is yeled (yeh'-led) and means something born, i.e. a lad or offspring-- boy, child, fruit, son, young one and/or young man.
Apparently Lamech got in a disagreement with somebody and they settled their differences in a fight. The injury Lamech received in the ensuing scuffle could have been something as simple as the man biting his ear or kicking him in the groin. It's my guess Lamech over-reacted and stabbed the man to death with a spiffy hunting knife that his son Tubal-cain made for him over in the blacksmith shop.
Lamech's sense of right and wrong reflects the humanistic conscience of a man void of God's mentoring. In his earthly mind, revenge was an okay thing; which is a common attitude in many primitive cultures.
But his opponent only wounded him. In return, Lamech took his life. The scales of justice don't balance in a situation like that-- they tip. Pure law says eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning, stripe for stripe, life for life, and no more. If the lad's intent was obviously upon great bodily harm; Lamech would probably be justified to kill in self defense since his opponent was a younger man and had the advantage in age. However, according to Lamech's own testimony, he killed the man in revenge; not self defense.
Cain's side of the Adams family is characterized by technology, invention, boasting, achievement, commerce, and violence. But not one word is recorded concerning its association with, nor its interest in, their maker. Cain's entire community was impious and went on to be completely destroyed right down to the last man, woman, and child in Noah's flood. No one survives him today.
The Bible doesn't record even one single incident of a Cainite blessing God for His goodness; nor for His mercy, nor for His providence. There is no record that any of them ever said even one single prayer-- not even a simple lay-me-down-to-sleep kind of prayer. Every one of the little kids in Enochville went to bed each night without the slightest assurance that humanity's creator cared at all for the well being of their little souls.
How many homes right here today in modern America reflect that very same Cainish culture? The parents and the children are unthankful, unholy, and irreligious; caring little or nothing for things of eternal value: moving towards an inevitable head-on rendezvous with death and the hereafter, and totally unprepared to meet their maker.
• Gen 4:25 . . And Adam had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, for, she said, "God has appointed me another offspring in place of Abel; for Cain killed him."
Seth's name in Hebrew basically means a substitute, defined by Webster's as a person or thing that takes the place or function of another; e.g. substitute teachers, generic medications, pinch hitters, and/or after-market car parts.
Apparently Eve was still anticipating that she herself would be the woman to give birth to the man promised by God to defeat the Serpent's wiles. (Gen 3:15)
• Gen 4:26a . . And to Seth, in turn, a son was born, and he named him Enosh.
Sometimes the record shows the mother naming a child, and sometimes the father; which suggests that in all cases there was very likely mutual consultation between husband and wife on this important decision. But it's always important for the father to take a hand in naming the children because the act testifies that he's legally, and officially, accepted them as his own. (e.g. Gen 16:15, Gen 21:3, Luke 1:13, Luke 1:63)
NOTE: God instructed both Joseph and Mary to give her baby the name Jesus (Matt 1:21, Luke 1:31). By doing so, Jesus went on record as both their son rather than only Mary's. (Luke 1:32, (Matt 17:5)
God also selected Ishmael's name (Gen 16:11) Isaac's (Gen 17:19) and Solomon's too (1Chron 22:9) changed Abraham's name (Gen 17:5) changed Sarah's name (Gen 17:15) and changed Jacob's name (Gen 32:28).
Christ changed Peter's name (Mark 3:16). Way out in the future, Christ will be changing quite a few names. (Rev 2:17)
"Enosh" is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and means: a mortal; hence a man in general, singly or collectively-- thus differing from the more dignified 'adam (aw-dawm') which is the proper name of the human race (Gen 5:2). There's really nothing special about an 'enowsh-- just a feller. Sometimes boys are named Guy, or Buddy, so 'enowsh would be a common enough name.
• Gen 4:26b . .Then men began to call on the name of The Lord.
The Hebrew word for "Lord" in this case is Jehovah (a.k.a. Yahweh); which always, and without exception, refers to the one true god.
Apparently up to this point in time, people addressed God in a sort of general way instead of a personal way, and some still do. For example; during the Native American funeral service held for my No.1 nephew, a tribal elder prayed to God as "Grandfather" rather than by a personal moniker like Shiva or some such.
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #54.
• Gen 5:1a . .This is the record of Adam's line.
I suspect that Adam's genealogy would be better defined as "a" record rather than "the" record because the Bible's version isn't exhaustive.
Adam's genealogy doesn't include every natural-born human being who ever lived and/or will live; rather, it's primarily concerned with the branch leading to Jesus of Nazareth: the Bible's central figure.
• Gen 5:1b-2 . .When God created man, He made him in the likeness of God; male and female He created them. And when they were created, He blessed them and called them Man.
As a preamble to Seth's line, Genesis reminds the reader that Man's origin was by intelligent design and special creation, and that he was made in the likeness of his creator, and that he's been an h.sapiens right from the get go. Man didn't begin his existence as some sort of pre-human hominid named Ardi who lived in Ethiopia's Afar Rift some 4.4 million years ago.
Some people take issue with Genesis because it seems to them so unscientific and contrary to the (known) fossil record. But they need to be cautious because science doesn't have perfect understanding of everything yet, nor has it discovered everything there is to discover, and it often has to be revised to reflect new discoveries, and to correct outdated theories and opinions.
But to be fair, Bible students don't know everything yet either so I would advise watching the sciences for new discoveries that help fill in some of the Bible's blanks.
• Gen 5:3a . .When Adam had lived 130 years, he begot a son
Bible genealogies often have very large gaps in them, omitting insignificant male siblings; and typically all of the girls. In one instance (1Chrn 1:1) the record skips Abel and jumps right to Seth.
Taking advantage of this rather strange Bible practice; critics are quick to point out generational gaps in Christ's genealogy with the intent of invalidating the entire New Testament. But gaps are to be expected or otherwise the list would be cumbersome and require a book all its own. For example; a sizeable quantity of time passed between Noah's ark and the arrival of Abraham on the scene; and probably a couple of ice ages too. We're talking about a lot of generations there, and naming them all to a man would be just as useless as it would be impractical.
• Gen 5:3b . . in his likeness after his image, and he named him Seth.
The best application for "likeness and image" that I've discovered thus far is as a technical term related to kin: physical and/or non physical. For example; in the beginning God made Man in His own image and likeness. However; Man bears no physical resemblance to God at all. Adam exclaimed that Eve was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, and she was; but God is neither.
Seth too, like Eve. was bone of Adam's bone and flesh of his flesh; meaning of course that Seth was born as Adam's physical kin; whereas likeness and image refers to Seth as simply kin, i.e. one of the family; physical and/or non physical.
• Gen 5:4-5 . . After the birth of Seth, Adam lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days that Adam lived came to 930 years; then he died.
Well, there goes grandpa Adam, just as God predicted at Gen 3:19. But hey? Where's the listing of the rest of his kids? Didn't God bless him with the words "be fruitful, increase in number, and fill the earth". Well, I seriously doubt that he and Eve stopped after just three kids. But the rest of his progeny-- for reasons I can only guess --didn't make the cut.
But when did Eve die? Did she outlive Adam? Who died first, Adam or Eve? Nobody really knows. But supposing Eve died quite a while before Adam? Did he remarry? And if he remarried, who did he marry? One of his own grandchildren?
Well . . in Adam's case, what's so bad about that? I mean, after all, his first wife was constructed from the organic material taken from his own body; so that in reality, Eve was his first child, which means that by today's social standards; Adam practiced the worst kind of incest. At least his grandkids would have been several times removed.
• Gen 5:6-7 . .When Seth had lived 105 years, he begot Enosh. After the birth of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and begot sons and daughters.
No doubt some people envy the longevity of the antediluvians; but I don't. Their life was hard, and for the most part, pretty boring too. Would you want to live for 912 years in pre historic conditions without a single modern convenience? Not me.
Was Enosh the first of Seth's children? Maybe, but probably not. However, he is the only child that counts because it's through him that we're moving towards Noah; and ultimately Abraham, David, and Christ.
• Gen 5:8 . . All the days of Seth came to 912 years; then he died.
(sigh) The story of our futile lives. So and So was born, he got married and reproduced; he lived X number of years after that, and then died-- same O, same O. The weary circle of life.
"Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless. What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever." (Ecc 1:2-4)
The earth is dumber than a brick; yet easily outlives its human potentate; whose IQ is infinitely greater.
_
• Gen 5:1a . .This is the record of Adam's line.
I suspect that Adam's genealogy would be better defined as "a" record rather than "the" record because the Bible's version isn't exhaustive.
Adam's genealogy doesn't include every natural-born human being who ever lived and/or will live; rather, it's primarily concerned with the branch leading to Jesus of Nazareth: the Bible's central figure.
• Gen 5:1b-2 . .When God created man, He made him in the likeness of God; male and female He created them. And when they were created, He blessed them and called them Man.
As a preamble to Seth's line, Genesis reminds the reader that Man's origin was by intelligent design and special creation, and that he was made in the likeness of his creator, and that he's been an h.sapiens right from the get go. Man didn't begin his existence as some sort of pre-human hominid named Ardi who lived in Ethiopia's Afar Rift some 4.4 million years ago.
Some people take issue with Genesis because it seems to them so unscientific and contrary to the (known) fossil record. But they need to be cautious because science doesn't have perfect understanding of everything yet, nor has it discovered everything there is to discover, and it often has to be revised to reflect new discoveries, and to correct outdated theories and opinions.
But to be fair, Bible students don't know everything yet either so I would advise watching the sciences for new discoveries that help fill in some of the Bible's blanks.
• Gen 5:3a . .When Adam had lived 130 years, he begot a son
Bible genealogies often have very large gaps in them, omitting insignificant male siblings; and typically all of the girls. In one instance (1Chrn 1:1) the record skips Abel and jumps right to Seth.
Taking advantage of this rather strange Bible practice; critics are quick to point out generational gaps in Christ's genealogy with the intent of invalidating the entire New Testament. But gaps are to be expected or otherwise the list would be cumbersome and require a book all its own. For example; a sizeable quantity of time passed between Noah's ark and the arrival of Abraham on the scene; and probably a couple of ice ages too. We're talking about a lot of generations there, and naming them all to a man would be just as useless as it would be impractical.
• Gen 5:3b . . in his likeness after his image, and he named him Seth.
The best application for "likeness and image" that I've discovered thus far is as a technical term related to kin: physical and/or non physical. For example; in the beginning God made Man in His own image and likeness. However; Man bears no physical resemblance to God at all. Adam exclaimed that Eve was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh, and she was; but God is neither.
Seth too, like Eve. was bone of Adam's bone and flesh of his flesh; meaning of course that Seth was born as Adam's physical kin; whereas likeness and image refers to Seth as simply kin, i.e. one of the family; physical and/or non physical.
• Gen 5:4-5 . . After the birth of Seth, Adam lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days that Adam lived came to 930 years; then he died.
Well, there goes grandpa Adam, just as God predicted at Gen 3:19. But hey? Where's the listing of the rest of his kids? Didn't God bless him with the words "be fruitful, increase in number, and fill the earth". Well, I seriously doubt that he and Eve stopped after just three kids. But the rest of his progeny-- for reasons I can only guess --didn't make the cut.
But when did Eve die? Did she outlive Adam? Who died first, Adam or Eve? Nobody really knows. But supposing Eve died quite a while before Adam? Did he remarry? And if he remarried, who did he marry? One of his own grandchildren?
Well . . in Adam's case, what's so bad about that? I mean, after all, his first wife was constructed from the organic material taken from his own body; so that in reality, Eve was his first child, which means that by today's social standards; Adam practiced the worst kind of incest. At least his grandkids would have been several times removed.
• Gen 5:6-7 . .When Seth had lived 105 years, he begot Enosh. After the birth of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and begot sons and daughters.
No doubt some people envy the longevity of the antediluvians; but I don't. Their life was hard, and for the most part, pretty boring too. Would you want to live for 912 years in pre historic conditions without a single modern convenience? Not me.
Was Enosh the first of Seth's children? Maybe, but probably not. However, he is the only child that counts because it's through him that we're moving towards Noah; and ultimately Abraham, David, and Christ.
• Gen 5:8 . . All the days of Seth came to 912 years; then he died.
(sigh) The story of our futile lives. So and So was born, he got married and reproduced; he lived X number of years after that, and then died-- same O, same O. The weary circle of life.
"Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless. What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever." (Ecc 1:2-4)
The earth is dumber than a brick; yet easily outlives its human potentate; whose IQ is infinitely greater.
_
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #55.
• Gen 5:9 . .When Enosh had lived 90 years, he begot Kenan.
Kenan's name in the Hebrew is Qeynan (kay-nawn') which means fixed or permanent; sort of like birds' nests, homes; and drifters finally ending their nomadic life and putting down some roots. Fixed can also mean that someone's life has a noble purpose and that their mind is focused upon that purpose rather than looking two ways at once. Or it can also mean somebody's life is a dead end; for example "this is as good as it's ever going to get". Kind of pessimistic; but had I lived back then, I would have agreed; heartily.
• Gen 5:10 . . After the birth of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and begot sons and daughters.
You know, some of these guys really didn't accomplish very much. All they seemed to do was reproduce. But the important thing is: they made a line to Messiah and, as is the duty of patriarchs, preserved whatever sacred teachings were handed down from their fathers.
• Gen 5:11 . . All the days of Enosh came to 905 years; then he died.
(yawn) Over and over again. Just about everybody reproduces in chapter five. And just about everybody dies too.
• Gen 5:12-20 . .When Kenan had lived 70 years, he begot Mahalalel. After the birth of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Kenan came to 910 years; then he died. When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he begot Jared. After the birth of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Mahalalel came to 895 years; then he died.
. . .When Jared had lived 162 years, he begot Enoch. After the birth of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Jared came to 962 years; then he died.
Four of those men-- Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, and Kenan (Cainan) --are listed in Christ's genealogy at Luke 3:37-38.
• Gen 5:21 . .When Enoch had lived 65 years, he begot Methuselah.
Methuselah's name is Methuwshelach (meth-oo-sheh'-lakh) which is a compound word made up of math (math) which means an adult (as of full length or full size), and shelach (sheh'-lakh) which means a missile of attack, i.e. a spear, sling stone, or perhaps an arrow. Methuselah was a man-size weapon rather than one that might be employed by little children.
Today our preferred missile of attack from a hand held weapon is the bullet. A Methuselah bullet would probably be known today as a magnum. Magnums cost more than normal ammo but hit harder, go further, and cause more damage (they're louder too). A modern name that might correspond to Methuselah is Long Tom-- a nickname often given to very large canons. Maybe they meant to call him Big Guy because he was such a heavy newborn.
• Gen 5:22-23 . . After the birth of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years; and he begot sons and daughters. All the days of Enoch came to 365 years.
Enoch was a fiery preacher, speaking the words recorded in Jude 1:14-15; warning people prior to the Flood that Almighty God intends to hold people's feet to the fire some day.
• Gen 5:24a . . Enoch walked with God;
Enoch was the exact opposite of Cain: he walked with God rather than away from God.
This is the very first man on record who is actually said to have walked with God; though no doubt Abel did too.
Those who are outwardly religious, but don't actually walk with God, might be wise to give this next little saying some thought.
Ye call me Lord and respect me not.
Ye call me Master and obey me not.
Ye call me Light and see me not.
Ye call me Way and walk me not.
Ye call me Life and choose me not.
Ye call me Wise and heed me not.
Ye call me Kind and love me not.
Ye call me Just and fear me not.
If I condemn thee, blame me not.
On the page of Scripture, Enoch isn't said to walk with God until after his little boy Methuselah was born; suggesting perhaps that parenthood gave him cause to ponder his manner of life thus far.
• Gen 5:24b . . then he was no more, because God took him away.
The Hebrew word for "no more" is 'ayin (ah'-yin) which is primarily a negative indicating that one minute Enoch was on earth, and the next he wasn't.
It's difficult to ascertain from so little information in the book of Genesis whether Enoch died of natural causes or the hand of God; but according to Heb 11:5, he didn't undergo death at all but was instantaneously transferred from this life to the next; apparently leaving behind no remains for his family to bury.
It's assumed by many that Enoch was taken to heaven; but according to Christ; no man had been to heaven prior to himself. (John 3:13)
• Gen 5:25-27 . .When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he begot Lamech. After the birth of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Methuselah came to 969 years; then he died.
Ol' Methuselah holds the record for longevity. He outlived his son Lamech, dying five years after him in the very year the Flood came; when Methuselah's grandson Noah was 600.
Whether or not Methuselah died in the Flood or by natural causes is not said. However, he may indeed have perished in it right along with all of the rest of Noah's relatives. Just because men are listed in Messiah's genealogy doesn't necessarily mean they were righteous. In point of fact, some of the Davidic kings in Jesus' line were totally incorrigible men beyond remedy. (e.g. Jer 22:24-30)
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• Gen 5:9 . .When Enosh had lived 90 years, he begot Kenan.
Kenan's name in the Hebrew is Qeynan (kay-nawn') which means fixed or permanent; sort of like birds' nests, homes; and drifters finally ending their nomadic life and putting down some roots. Fixed can also mean that someone's life has a noble purpose and that their mind is focused upon that purpose rather than looking two ways at once. Or it can also mean somebody's life is a dead end; for example "this is as good as it's ever going to get". Kind of pessimistic; but had I lived back then, I would have agreed; heartily.
• Gen 5:10 . . After the birth of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and begot sons and daughters.
You know, some of these guys really didn't accomplish very much. All they seemed to do was reproduce. But the important thing is: they made a line to Messiah and, as is the duty of patriarchs, preserved whatever sacred teachings were handed down from their fathers.
• Gen 5:11 . . All the days of Enosh came to 905 years; then he died.
(yawn) Over and over again. Just about everybody reproduces in chapter five. And just about everybody dies too.
• Gen 5:12-20 . .When Kenan had lived 70 years, he begot Mahalalel. After the birth of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Kenan came to 910 years; then he died. When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he begot Jared. After the birth of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Mahalalel came to 895 years; then he died.
. . .When Jared had lived 162 years, he begot Enoch. After the birth of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Jared came to 962 years; then he died.
Four of those men-- Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, and Kenan (Cainan) --are listed in Christ's genealogy at Luke 3:37-38.
• Gen 5:21 . .When Enoch had lived 65 years, he begot Methuselah.
Methuselah's name is Methuwshelach (meth-oo-sheh'-lakh) which is a compound word made up of math (math) which means an adult (as of full length or full size), and shelach (sheh'-lakh) which means a missile of attack, i.e. a spear, sling stone, or perhaps an arrow. Methuselah was a man-size weapon rather than one that might be employed by little children.
Today our preferred missile of attack from a hand held weapon is the bullet. A Methuselah bullet would probably be known today as a magnum. Magnums cost more than normal ammo but hit harder, go further, and cause more damage (they're louder too). A modern name that might correspond to Methuselah is Long Tom-- a nickname often given to very large canons. Maybe they meant to call him Big Guy because he was such a heavy newborn.
• Gen 5:22-23 . . After the birth of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years; and he begot sons and daughters. All the days of Enoch came to 365 years.
Enoch was a fiery preacher, speaking the words recorded in Jude 1:14-15; warning people prior to the Flood that Almighty God intends to hold people's feet to the fire some day.
• Gen 5:24a . . Enoch walked with God;
Enoch was the exact opposite of Cain: he walked with God rather than away from God.
This is the very first man on record who is actually said to have walked with God; though no doubt Abel did too.
Those who are outwardly religious, but don't actually walk with God, might be wise to give this next little saying some thought.
Ye call me Lord and respect me not.
Ye call me Master and obey me not.
Ye call me Light and see me not.
Ye call me Way and walk me not.
Ye call me Life and choose me not.
Ye call me Wise and heed me not.
Ye call me Kind and love me not.
Ye call me Just and fear me not.
If I condemn thee, blame me not.
On the page of Scripture, Enoch isn't said to walk with God until after his little boy Methuselah was born; suggesting perhaps that parenthood gave him cause to ponder his manner of life thus far.
• Gen 5:24b . . then he was no more, because God took him away.
The Hebrew word for "no more" is 'ayin (ah'-yin) which is primarily a negative indicating that one minute Enoch was on earth, and the next he wasn't.
It's difficult to ascertain from so little information in the book of Genesis whether Enoch died of natural causes or the hand of God; but according to Heb 11:5, he didn't undergo death at all but was instantaneously transferred from this life to the next; apparently leaving behind no remains for his family to bury.
It's assumed by many that Enoch was taken to heaven; but according to Christ; no man had been to heaven prior to himself. (John 3:13)
• Gen 5:25-27 . .When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he begot Lamech. After the birth of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Methuselah came to 969 years; then he died.
Ol' Methuselah holds the record for longevity. He outlived his son Lamech, dying five years after him in the very year the Flood came; when Methuselah's grandson Noah was 600.
Whether or not Methuselah died in the Flood or by natural causes is not said. However, he may indeed have perished in it right along with all of the rest of Noah's relatives. Just because men are listed in Messiah's genealogy doesn't necessarily mean they were righteous. In point of fact, some of the Davidic kings in Jesus' line were totally incorrigible men beyond remedy. (e.g. Jer 22:24-30)
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thomasdixon
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #56[Replying to WebersHome in post #50]
Post one (1) is just a recap of Genesis
It does not tell us where those ideas came from
Post one (1) is just a recap of Genesis
It does not tell us where those ideas came from
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #57.
• Gen 5:28-29 . .When Lamech had lived 182 years, he begot a son. And he named him Noah, saying: This one will provide us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands, out of the very soil which the Lord placed under a curse.
The word for "Noah" is from nuwach (noo'-akh) and means: rest or quiet. But not the kind of quiet one might find in a sound-proof room. More like the tranquility a person would experience by getting away from anxiety, fear, conflict, and toil.
Lamech speaks as one fatigued with the business of living, and as one grudging that so much energy, which otherwise might have been much better employed in leisure, entertainment, or self improvement, was unavoidably spent in toil and labor necessary simply to survive back in that day.
Lamech undoubtedly saw that Noah was a very special boy; the next patriarch after himself. Perhaps he hoped Noah was the promised seed of the woman; the one who would crush the Serpent's head, remove the curse, and restore the Earth to its former prosperity and glory; thus making for Man a much more enjoyable experience than the one he is subjected to for now.
"I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself will be set free from its slavery to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Rom 8:18-21)
"Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:19-21)
According to Acts 3:19-21, men have been pounding pulpits since the very beginning, and all of the prophets, ever since Abel, have looked ahead in anxious anticipation to Messiah's intervention in world affairs and bringing into existence a much better world than the one that is now.
• Gen 5:30-32 . . After the birth of Noah, Lamech lived 595 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Lamech came to 777 years; then he died. When Noah had lived 500 years, Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Lamech escaped the Flood by a mere 5 years. It came when Noah was 600 (Gen 7:6).
Shem was the next patriarch after his dad Noah. But the names of all three boys are given probably because of the role they will play in re-populating the Earth after the Flood. The Bible doesn't say that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were especially good men. They survived the Flood in spite of their character only because they got aboard the ark with their dad when it was time for the rain to begin. If they had mocked, and remained on land with the rest of the world, then they would have certainly drowned right along with everyone else in spite of their ancestry.
So; were Mr and Mrs Noah childless until Noah was 500 years old? Probably not. The other kids, if there were any, didn't count as far as God was concerned, and, if there were any, they perished in the deluge.
NOTE: Being related to holy men like rabbis, pastors, deacons and/or missionaries etc doesn't guarantee a ticket to safety. Everyone has to make their own personal decisions in that regard (e.g. Gen 19:12-14). God commands all people everywhere to repent. The alternative is the sum of all fears no matter how important, nor well connected, your relatives might be.
_
• Gen 5:28-29 . .When Lamech had lived 182 years, he begot a son. And he named him Noah, saying: This one will provide us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands, out of the very soil which the Lord placed under a curse.
The word for "Noah" is from nuwach (noo'-akh) and means: rest or quiet. But not the kind of quiet one might find in a sound-proof room. More like the tranquility a person would experience by getting away from anxiety, fear, conflict, and toil.
Lamech speaks as one fatigued with the business of living, and as one grudging that so much energy, which otherwise might have been much better employed in leisure, entertainment, or self improvement, was unavoidably spent in toil and labor necessary simply to survive back in that day.
Lamech undoubtedly saw that Noah was a very special boy; the next patriarch after himself. Perhaps he hoped Noah was the promised seed of the woman; the one who would crush the Serpent's head, remove the curse, and restore the Earth to its former prosperity and glory; thus making for Man a much more enjoyable experience than the one he is subjected to for now.
"I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself will be set free from its slavery to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Rom 8:18-21)
"Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:19-21)
According to Acts 3:19-21, men have been pounding pulpits since the very beginning, and all of the prophets, ever since Abel, have looked ahead in anxious anticipation to Messiah's intervention in world affairs and bringing into existence a much better world than the one that is now.
• Gen 5:30-32 . . After the birth of Noah, Lamech lived 595 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Lamech came to 777 years; then he died. When Noah had lived 500 years, Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Lamech escaped the Flood by a mere 5 years. It came when Noah was 600 (Gen 7:6).
Shem was the next patriarch after his dad Noah. But the names of all three boys are given probably because of the role they will play in re-populating the Earth after the Flood. The Bible doesn't say that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were especially good men. They survived the Flood in spite of their character only because they got aboard the ark with their dad when it was time for the rain to begin. If they had mocked, and remained on land with the rest of the world, then they would have certainly drowned right along with everyone else in spite of their ancestry.
So; were Mr and Mrs Noah childless until Noah was 500 years old? Probably not. The other kids, if there were any, didn't count as far as God was concerned, and, if there were any, they perished in the deluge.
NOTE: Being related to holy men like rabbis, pastors, deacons and/or missionaries etc doesn't guarantee a ticket to safety. Everyone has to make their own personal decisions in that regard (e.g. Gen 19:12-14). God commands all people everywhere to repent. The alternative is the sum of all fears no matter how important, nor well connected, your relatives might be.
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #58.
• Gen 6:1-2 . . Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
The Hebrew word for "good" in that passage is towb (tobe) which is one of those ambiguous Hebrew words that can be utilized in a wide variety of applications. It can indicate morality, a tasty meal, a job well done, a nice man, a pretty dress, a shapely woman and/or a handsome man, and an expert musician and/or a really groovy song. But in this case; I think it's pretty safe to assume towb refers to a woman's looks.
NOTE: Ambiguous Hebrew words like towb serve to illustrate why it's virtually impossible to translate Hebrew into English with 100% verbatim precision. No linguist in his right mind would dare to say that English versions of the Hebrew Old Testament are perfect word-for-word renditions of the original manuscripts-- no; they can't even be certified perfect word-for-word renditions of the available manuscripts let alone the originals.
The characteristics of the "sons of God" has been debated. Some say they were members of the aristocracy of that day who married attractive women from among the commoners. Others say they were renegade spirit creatures who donned fully functioning human avatars-- replete with synthetic male genomes --so they could cohabit with women; thus producing a hybrid strain of hominid freaks. Others say they were God-fearing men who threw caution to the wind and built themselves harems of humanistic women who believed and practiced existential philosophies.
Intermarriage between men of faith and infidel women is a proven tactic for watering down, compromising, and even extinguishing Bible beliefs and practices (e.g. Num 31:7-16). The people of God are strictly, unequivocally, and clearly forbidden to marry outside their faith. (Deut 7:1-4, 2Cor 6:14 18)
Wives can be very effective in influencing an otherwise pious man to compromise his convictions; for example Solomon got off to a good start but down the road accumulated a harem of foreign women who led him into idolatry; which subsequently caused The Lord to engineer rebellion in the kingdom. (1Kgs 11 & 12)
The sons of God in Noah's day-- whose wives were chosen based solely upon sensual appeal sans any spiritual prudence whatsoever --all perished in the Flood right along with their infidel wives and children. Not a one of them had the good sense to go aboard the ark with Noah.
NOTE: Jude urged his readers to contend for the faith-- i.e. struggle (Jude 1:3) --which doesn't imply getting into brawls over it. He means to hang on to it with the same desperate clinging that would be applied to a life ring thrown to a man overboard because there are unfaithful elements in churches all 'round the world pressuring God's people to become flexible.
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• Gen 6:1-2 . . Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
The Hebrew word for "good" in that passage is towb (tobe) which is one of those ambiguous Hebrew words that can be utilized in a wide variety of applications. It can indicate morality, a tasty meal, a job well done, a nice man, a pretty dress, a shapely woman and/or a handsome man, and an expert musician and/or a really groovy song. But in this case; I think it's pretty safe to assume towb refers to a woman's looks.
NOTE: Ambiguous Hebrew words like towb serve to illustrate why it's virtually impossible to translate Hebrew into English with 100% verbatim precision. No linguist in his right mind would dare to say that English versions of the Hebrew Old Testament are perfect word-for-word renditions of the original manuscripts-- no; they can't even be certified perfect word-for-word renditions of the available manuscripts let alone the originals.
The characteristics of the "sons of God" has been debated. Some say they were members of the aristocracy of that day who married attractive women from among the commoners. Others say they were renegade spirit creatures who donned fully functioning human avatars-- replete with synthetic male genomes --so they could cohabit with women; thus producing a hybrid strain of hominid freaks. Others say they were God-fearing men who threw caution to the wind and built themselves harems of humanistic women who believed and practiced existential philosophies.
Intermarriage between men of faith and infidel women is a proven tactic for watering down, compromising, and even extinguishing Bible beliefs and practices (e.g. Num 31:7-16). The people of God are strictly, unequivocally, and clearly forbidden to marry outside their faith. (Deut 7:1-4, 2Cor 6:14 18)
Wives can be very effective in influencing an otherwise pious man to compromise his convictions; for example Solomon got off to a good start but down the road accumulated a harem of foreign women who led him into idolatry; which subsequently caused The Lord to engineer rebellion in the kingdom. (1Kgs 11 & 12)
The sons of God in Noah's day-- whose wives were chosen based solely upon sensual appeal sans any spiritual prudence whatsoever --all perished in the Flood right along with their infidel wives and children. Not a one of them had the good sense to go aboard the ark with Noah.
NOTE: Jude urged his readers to contend for the faith-- i.e. struggle (Jude 1:3) --which doesn't imply getting into brawls over it. He means to hang on to it with the same desperate clinging that would be applied to a life ring thrown to a man overboard because there are unfaithful elements in churches all 'round the world pressuring God's people to become flexible.
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #59.
• Gen 6:3a . . And the Lord said: My Spirit shall not strive with man forever
Some translations have "abide" instead of strive. But the Hebrew word is diyn (deen) which means: to rule; by implication: to judge (as umpire); also to strive (as at law). It can also mean to plead the cause of; or to contend in argument.
So. How did "My Spirit" accomplish this striving with man? In person Himself? No; just like He always has: via a holy man.
"Noah, a preacher of righteousness" (2Pet 2:5)
NOTE: According to 1Pet 3:18-20, the Spirit of Christ and My Spirit are one and the same spirit. In point of fact; according to 1Pet 1:10-11, all the Old Testament preachers (a..k.a. prophets) were motivated by the Spirit of Christ. (cf. Rom 8:9 and 1Cor 6:19 where the Spirit of Christ and The Spirit are seen as one and the same spirit)
● Gen 6:3b . . for they are only mortal flesh.
A problem with flesh is it's brevity. The human body eventually loses its vigor, so God has a limited amount of time to work with people before they pass on. Were humans immortal, He would have plenty of time to turn people around; but alas, without access to the tree of life, such is not the case; which is why I sometimes advise certain folk to use what time they have remaining to begin preparing themselves for the worst when they pass on.
● Gen 6:3c . . yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
Some feel that God set the limits of human longevity in that verse. But people still continued to live long lives for a great number of years afterwards. Even Abraham, who lived many, many years after the Flood, didn't die till he was 175 years old.
It's far more reasonable to conclude that God was announcing a deadline; viz: they had 120 years left to get ready to meet their maker. But you think that alarmed anybody? Heck no. They went right on; business as usual.
"And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all." (Luke 17:26-27)
The time of God's patience is sometimes long; but never unlimited; viz: reprieves are not pardons-- though God bear a great while, He never bears forever.
● Gen 6:4 . .There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
The Hebrew word for "giants" in that passage is somewhat ambiguous. It not only refers to people of unusual stature, but also to bullies, i.e. alpha males, achievers, tyrants, movers and shakers, and Machiavellian types.
Historical examples would be men like Genghis Khan of Mongolia, and Alexander the Great of Greece; Napoleon of France, Peter Alekseyevich Romanov of Russia, Chandragupta Maurya of India, shogun Minamoto no Yoritomo of Japan, conquistador Hernando Cortes of Spain, Timur: founder of the Timurid dynasty, and Zahir-ud din Muhammad Babur: founder of the Mughal dynasty that ruled the Indian subcontinent for over three centuries.
In other words: nephiyl doesn't necessarily indicate a special race of people; but simply strong men whose ambition is to dominate others; even if they have to completely destroy their culture and kill them all off to do it.
I would categorize Nimrod as a nephiyl. He was the first statesmen to successfully unite the world; and it was such a solid unity that only divine intervention could bring it down.
The phrase "men of renown" indicates that the nephil types got all the press: they were the Man Of The Year back then while guys like Noah were marginalized and went largely unnoticed.
FAQ: If all the nephiyl types drowned in the Flood; then how did their characteristics manage to resurface down the road?
A: Well; from whence did nephiyl types originate in the first place? Same place every other personality type originated: from Adam's genes; viz: since Noah and his wife, and his sons and their wives, were Adam's biological descendants, then nephiyl characteristics survived the Flood by riding it out in the DNA of the people aboard the ark.
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• Gen 6:3a . . And the Lord said: My Spirit shall not strive with man forever
Some translations have "abide" instead of strive. But the Hebrew word is diyn (deen) which means: to rule; by implication: to judge (as umpire); also to strive (as at law). It can also mean to plead the cause of; or to contend in argument.
So. How did "My Spirit" accomplish this striving with man? In person Himself? No; just like He always has: via a holy man.
"Noah, a preacher of righteousness" (2Pet 2:5)
NOTE: According to 1Pet 3:18-20, the Spirit of Christ and My Spirit are one and the same spirit. In point of fact; according to 1Pet 1:10-11, all the Old Testament preachers (a..k.a. prophets) were motivated by the Spirit of Christ. (cf. Rom 8:9 and 1Cor 6:19 where the Spirit of Christ and The Spirit are seen as one and the same spirit)
● Gen 6:3b . . for they are only mortal flesh.
A problem with flesh is it's brevity. The human body eventually loses its vigor, so God has a limited amount of time to work with people before they pass on. Were humans immortal, He would have plenty of time to turn people around; but alas, without access to the tree of life, such is not the case; which is why I sometimes advise certain folk to use what time they have remaining to begin preparing themselves for the worst when they pass on.
● Gen 6:3c . . yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
Some feel that God set the limits of human longevity in that verse. But people still continued to live long lives for a great number of years afterwards. Even Abraham, who lived many, many years after the Flood, didn't die till he was 175 years old.
It's far more reasonable to conclude that God was announcing a deadline; viz: they had 120 years left to get ready to meet their maker. But you think that alarmed anybody? Heck no. They went right on; business as usual.
"And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all." (Luke 17:26-27)
The time of God's patience is sometimes long; but never unlimited; viz: reprieves are not pardons-- though God bear a great while, He never bears forever.
● Gen 6:4 . .There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
The Hebrew word for "giants" in that passage is somewhat ambiguous. It not only refers to people of unusual stature, but also to bullies, i.e. alpha males, achievers, tyrants, movers and shakers, and Machiavellian types.
Historical examples would be men like Genghis Khan of Mongolia, and Alexander the Great of Greece; Napoleon of France, Peter Alekseyevich Romanov of Russia, Chandragupta Maurya of India, shogun Minamoto no Yoritomo of Japan, conquistador Hernando Cortes of Spain, Timur: founder of the Timurid dynasty, and Zahir-ud din Muhammad Babur: founder of the Mughal dynasty that ruled the Indian subcontinent for over three centuries.
In other words: nephiyl doesn't necessarily indicate a special race of people; but simply strong men whose ambition is to dominate others; even if they have to completely destroy their culture and kill them all off to do it.
I would categorize Nimrod as a nephiyl. He was the first statesmen to successfully unite the world; and it was such a solid unity that only divine intervention could bring it down.
The phrase "men of renown" indicates that the nephil types got all the press: they were the Man Of The Year back then while guys like Noah were marginalized and went largely unnoticed.
FAQ: If all the nephiyl types drowned in the Flood; then how did their characteristics manage to resurface down the road?
A: Well; from whence did nephiyl types originate in the first place? Same place every other personality type originated: from Adam's genes; viz: since Noah and his wife, and his sons and their wives, were Adam's biological descendants, then nephiyl characteristics survived the Flood by riding it out in the DNA of the people aboard the ark.
_
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WebersHome
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Re: Genesis For The Mildly Curious
Post #60.
• Gen 6:5 . . And the Lord saw that the evil of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of his heart was only evil all the time.
Man's descent into depravity didn't catch his creator by surprise. After all; not only can God see the future but He can also manipulate it; so He was well aware even before beginning that the people He was about to create were destined from day one for a global deluge.
Also, when God inspected His handiwork at Gen 1:31, He evaluated it not just good, but "very" good. So as far as He was concerned; everything went smoothly and according to plan-- nothing was broken, no parts were missing, and nothing failed to mate with its matching part.
• Gen 6:6 . . And the Lord regretted that He had made man upon the earth, and He became grieved in His heart.
When God created the people of man, it was no doubt with the awareness that the day would come when He would have to put a number of them down like dogs gone mad with rabies.
If it can be safely assumed that God saw man's depravity coming well in advance-- prior to creating even one of the many forces, energies, and particles that would go into the construction of the cosmos --then we have to wonder why it is that He felt remorse for going ahead as planned. Surely it wasn't because He made a terrible mistake. I seriously doubt that a master architect with the creator's intelligence would fail to foresee every possible ramification of their actions.
Well; it's at least comforting to know the destruction of life is not something God enjoys as if He were an outdoor guy who kills fish and wildlife for sport with no more sensitivity than a kid blasting aliens in a video game. Man's creator knew the day was coming when He would have to do what He was about to do next, and clearly wasn't looking forward to it, but nevertheless; leaves us with unavoidable questions about His sanity because from a rational perspective, God's procedures make no sense at all.
Anyway, aside from all that; it appears to me that God had high expectations for the people of man, and was very disappointed that numbers of them went bad; sort of like how parents feel when a kid, whom they've given every privilege, every opportunity, and every advantage imaginable, lets it all go overboard and somehow ends up incorrigible and a total failure instead.
• Gen 6:7 . . And the Lord said: I will blot out man, whom I created, from upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle to creeping thing, to the fowl of the heavens, for I regret that I made them.
The destruction of earth's birds and beasts was unavoidable; they became collateral damage in God's contention with the evil antediluvians.
The Hebrew word for "blot" is from machah (maw-khaw') which means: to stroke or rub; by implication, to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), i.e. grease or make fat; also to touch, i.e. reach to.
God intended to not only remove the antediluvians from the face of the earth, but also to scrub off all of their works too so that when He was done, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to even be able to tell the antediluvians were ever here at all.
It's always been a mystery to me why paleo-anthropologists have managed to find so few fossilized remains of pre-historic human beings.
In 1992, Tim White of the University of California at Berkeley, discovered the fossilized skeletons of human-like creatures in Ethiopia's Afar Rift who lived 4.4 million years ago but those are not the remains of h.sapiens; but rather, of beasts that resemble h.sapiens. To my knowledge; no truly human remains have been found from that era.
While mysterious; that lack of remains isn't exclusive. Take for instance the Passenger Pigeon. That bird at one time numbered an estimated four to five billion individuals; which is a number equal in quantity to the current year-round population of all North American birds combined. Yet an archeological search for the pigeon's bones left behind by people who ate the bird for food, through all pre-Columbian times, has thus far yielded very few remains; at only two sites.
But my point is: where are the remains of the antediluvians? They're gone; lock, stock, and barrel-- no metal implements from Tubal-Cain's blacksmith shop, no musical instruments from Jubal's work shop, no dwellings, no footprints, no bones, no pottery, no no pictographs, no petroglyphs, not even any geological evidence of a world-wide deluge: nothing. It's like they were never here.
God moved against the antediluvians like a relentless newspaper editor deleting superfluous words and sentences so skillfully that the reader cannot even tell those superfluous words and sentences ever existed in the original copy.
Why would God do that? I would hazard to guess that His purpose in doing so was to prevent people from believing too easily that the Flood actually happened.
The funny thing about the Bible is that portions of it are just as effective at driving people away from God as they are at attracting them. No doubt it is God's wishes that everybody believe the Bible; but at the same time it seems He's thwarted His own longings by taking steps to ensure that a substantial number of people don't. For example:
"Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: You have seen all that The Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and all his servants and all his land; the great trials which your eyes have seen, those great signs and wonders. Yet to this day The Lord has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear." (Deut 29:2-4)
"No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (Matt 11:27)
_
• Gen 6:5 . . And the Lord saw that the evil of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of his heart was only evil all the time.
Man's descent into depravity didn't catch his creator by surprise. After all; not only can God see the future but He can also manipulate it; so He was well aware even before beginning that the people He was about to create were destined from day one for a global deluge.
Also, when God inspected His handiwork at Gen 1:31, He evaluated it not just good, but "very" good. So as far as He was concerned; everything went smoothly and according to plan-- nothing was broken, no parts were missing, and nothing failed to mate with its matching part.
• Gen 6:6 . . And the Lord regretted that He had made man upon the earth, and He became grieved in His heart.
When God created the people of man, it was no doubt with the awareness that the day would come when He would have to put a number of them down like dogs gone mad with rabies.
If it can be safely assumed that God saw man's depravity coming well in advance-- prior to creating even one of the many forces, energies, and particles that would go into the construction of the cosmos --then we have to wonder why it is that He felt remorse for going ahead as planned. Surely it wasn't because He made a terrible mistake. I seriously doubt that a master architect with the creator's intelligence would fail to foresee every possible ramification of their actions.
Well; it's at least comforting to know the destruction of life is not something God enjoys as if He were an outdoor guy who kills fish and wildlife for sport with no more sensitivity than a kid blasting aliens in a video game. Man's creator knew the day was coming when He would have to do what He was about to do next, and clearly wasn't looking forward to it, but nevertheless; leaves us with unavoidable questions about His sanity because from a rational perspective, God's procedures make no sense at all.
Anyway, aside from all that; it appears to me that God had high expectations for the people of man, and was very disappointed that numbers of them went bad; sort of like how parents feel when a kid, whom they've given every privilege, every opportunity, and every advantage imaginable, lets it all go overboard and somehow ends up incorrigible and a total failure instead.
• Gen 6:7 . . And the Lord said: I will blot out man, whom I created, from upon the face of the earth, from man to cattle to creeping thing, to the fowl of the heavens, for I regret that I made them.
The destruction of earth's birds and beasts was unavoidable; they became collateral damage in God's contention with the evil antediluvians.
The Hebrew word for "blot" is from machah (maw-khaw') which means: to stroke or rub; by implication, to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), i.e. grease or make fat; also to touch, i.e. reach to.
God intended to not only remove the antediluvians from the face of the earth, but also to scrub off all of their works too so that when He was done, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to even be able to tell the antediluvians were ever here at all.
It's always been a mystery to me why paleo-anthropologists have managed to find so few fossilized remains of pre-historic human beings.
In 1992, Tim White of the University of California at Berkeley, discovered the fossilized skeletons of human-like creatures in Ethiopia's Afar Rift who lived 4.4 million years ago but those are not the remains of h.sapiens; but rather, of beasts that resemble h.sapiens. To my knowledge; no truly human remains have been found from that era.
While mysterious; that lack of remains isn't exclusive. Take for instance the Passenger Pigeon. That bird at one time numbered an estimated four to five billion individuals; which is a number equal in quantity to the current year-round population of all North American birds combined. Yet an archeological search for the pigeon's bones left behind by people who ate the bird for food, through all pre-Columbian times, has thus far yielded very few remains; at only two sites.
But my point is: where are the remains of the antediluvians? They're gone; lock, stock, and barrel-- no metal implements from Tubal-Cain's blacksmith shop, no musical instruments from Jubal's work shop, no dwellings, no footprints, no bones, no pottery, no no pictographs, no petroglyphs, not even any geological evidence of a world-wide deluge: nothing. It's like they were never here.
God moved against the antediluvians like a relentless newspaper editor deleting superfluous words and sentences so skillfully that the reader cannot even tell those superfluous words and sentences ever existed in the original copy.
Why would God do that? I would hazard to guess that His purpose in doing so was to prevent people from believing too easily that the Flood actually happened.
The funny thing about the Bible is that portions of it are just as effective at driving people away from God as they are at attracting them. No doubt it is God's wishes that everybody believe the Bible; but at the same time it seems He's thwarted His own longings by taking steps to ensure that a substantial number of people don't. For example:
"Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: You have seen all that The Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and all his servants and all his land; the great trials which your eyes have seen, those great signs and wonders. Yet to this day The Lord has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear." (Deut 29:2-4)
"No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (Matt 11:27)
_
Last edited by WebersHome on Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
