This is a question addressed only to former Christians who have left the faith.
Why did you become a Christian?
[/b]
? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
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we-live-now
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #41[Replying to post 39 by help3434]
Hi Help,
Thank you for pointing this out. I too, used to believe for almost a decade (because that is what my mainstream Church taught me) that this verse was about a believer who fell away once he believed. This often put FEAR in my heart and I would discuss this with the Pastors and remind them of 1 John 4:18 that says "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." So, if I believe God and it brings fear, this is my first sign that something is wrong, so I kept digging.
May I share what I believe God showed me in the last 2 years during my studies and prayers? It is MOST glorious!
First, keep in mind this letter is to the "Hebrews" or the Jewish people. It is specifically written to them and address much of the law and how Jesus' one sacrifice was sufficient to completely fulfill the law for righteousness. There is NOTHING they need to do anymore to obtain righteousness (salvation) or to keep it. As it says "The blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin but were a reminder of sins" until the messiah would come and take away ALL sin for ALL TIME. They had to know this because sometimes a Jewish person returned back to their religious rituals (the law) after listening to ("tasting") the Gospel. I believe it is ok for them to perform their rituals in gratitude for the complete forgiveness of sins but not in any way to EARN the forgiveness. I also read that during the millennial age the Lord will bring back the sacrificial system for the Jews but it will be for thanks and gratitude only after the fact that they were saved. So, my first point is that this letter is written specifically to the Jewish person as it talks about the law specifically.
Secondly, let’s take a look at the verse(s) in question:
"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6
Look at how it says "tasted" multiple times. This is a HUGE clue. This is different than "swallowing" the word or "eating Jesus flesh and drinking his blood". Thus, this person is not a real believer, they have only heard the message but have not believed (consumed) it. This is why Jesus said "you must eat my flesh" and "drink my blood". You have to completely receive into your being which the person in Hebrews 6:4-6 has not.
Thirdly, look at what the writer says just before these verses as it also gives us clue:
"Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits." Hebrews 6:1-3
See what he is saying here? He is specifically talking about a person who wants to go back to the law (perform sacrifices/dead works) in order to obtain his righteousness/salvation. They want to try to "do" to obtain righteousness but that is impossible with God as it has to be a free gift. Paul tells us this in many places that the law can't give us righteousness, it has to come by faith according to the promise. Here is Gal 3:21 "For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law." Also, in Gal 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Thus, in short, there is NOTHING we can do ourselves to obtain salvation (righteousness) and forgiveness of sins but he saw many Jews who were constantly coming back under the sacrificial laws in order to cover their sins. This one act of going back to the sacrificial system (Law) in order to cover your sins and obtain righteousness is the SIN that the writer of Hebrews talks about in Chapter 4! According to Chapter 10 verse 1 the law was only a "shadow" of the one sacrifice that was yet to come in Jesus. "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near."
Now, this is where it gets AWESOME! Check this out. Go to chapter 10 and slowly read the entire chapter. See verse 8 where it says that God never wanted sacrifices as it never pleased him! "After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them (which are offered according to the Law)," God REALLY desires a heart that thirsts for mercy, love and compassion but mostly a heart that knows it can't do anything to obtain its own righteousness through the law (trying to earn it by doing). That is why he sent Jesus to completely annul the first covenant of law (man does to earn righteousness) and put a brand new covenant based on Grace (God does it and it's a free gift). He tells us in the very next verse "9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.� He takes away the first in order to establish the second." The writer goes on after this to tell us the AMAZING thing that happened at the cross! ALL OUR SINS are gone forever and we have a completely CLEAN conscience now!!! There is no more need for us to do anything to obtain forgiveness other than believe it and THANK HIM! Our consciences are clean no matter what we still see in our lives. It's amazing.
However, what if someone won't accept this free gift yet insists on still trying to earn forgiveness by guilt or confession or any other works of the flesh?
In short, he's not happy with this! The writer of Hebrews goes onto tell us in the next verses and I strongly URGE the church pay attention to this because they are teaching the body to do this without EVEN REALIZING IT! This got me kicked out of my own church because they could NOT see this. That is why Paul calls the law “the ministry of death and condemnation� in 2 Cor 3:7 “But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory...� and Romans 4:15 “because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.“ and 2 Cor 3:9, etc. The law was never intended to give us righteousness but to minister death and condemnation to us so we realize we can do NOTHING to save ourselves or earn forgiveness and run to Jesus.
When we attempt to do anything when we sin other than just accept the free gift of forgiveness that we have because of his blood, we are actually "trampling under the foot of the son of God" because we do not believe in his work at the cross. We are once again regarding ourselves as "unclean" even though God says we are clean because of the Lord's blood only and not by anything we do. It is ALL GOD'S work and "no flesh shall glory in his presence" or be able to boast/brag. God tells us that we should “not regard that as unclean which God has made clean�. That is us! See Acts 10:15 and 11:9. This is NOT a good place to be according to Hebrews 10:26-31. I advise we read and pray over these verses carefully.
"26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.� And again, “The Lord will judge His people.� 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:26-31
We are given a very stern warning here. If we go back to the law trying to earn our own righteousness and not accepting it freely by Grace there simply is no more sacrifice for that sin because that covenant no longer exists. See in verse 29 how the blood of Christ has made us clean for ALL TIME by ONE ACT. We are NOT EVER TO CONSIDER OURSELVES as UNCLEAN and again try to atone for our own sins via any sacrifices no matter how "socially acceptable" they are such as confession, repentance, etc. We are not even supposed to feel guilty because the root of guilt is us doing something or trying to earn our own righteousness. It is VERY SAD because this is what the mainstream church teaches its very members to do! They are teaching them to TRAMPLE ON THE BLOOD OF CHRIST! The writer goes onto say in verse 28 what happened to those who disregarded the first covenant (Law of Moses). How much worse could it be to those who don’t accept the free gift or try to earn their own righteousness in the new covenant?
So, the ONE SIN that the writer talks about in Hebrews 10:26 is not accepting the one time free gift of salvation and righteousness that was offered up at the cross! This person either rejects it completely or is trying to go back under the old covenant of law and is trying to earn their own righteousness. This can be as simple as believing we need to confess our sins in order to be forgiven or cleansed. It’s a LIE as we were cleansed ONCE FOR ALL TIME. We need to just accept that ALL of our sins forever were forgiven and thank Jesus for that. That’s it, NOTHING else. Once this hits a person’s heart they will LEAP for JOY with love for the Lord.
So, that's the bad news.
The good news is that God is very rich in mercy and he "is love". I believe he is already starting to show the elect this and I am already seeing it in a few teachers out there already who are called "grace" teachers. It takes a great struggle in ones life and the intervention of God to see and understand Grace. It takes GREAT faith and it's difficult to freely accept and live in the Lord's grace especially when the enemy and our fallen flesh tries to condemn us. All of our mind's programming has to be undone from the world system. However, it takes little faith to live under the law because the law is very subtle and our flesh and the world system is setup to work with the law. Paul tells us this in Romans 3:12 "However, the Law is not of faith".
I also have come to believe an even more glorious thing that the Lords Holy "fire" at the end times (against his "adversaries") will be a final refining or cleansing of all the worlds unrighteousness. He will burn away all sin and unrighteousness, but the people themselves will escape "as through a fire". We will finally see that man was NEVER God's enemy and that God loves all men. This would completely fulfill the promise that "Jesus is indeed the savior of the World!" AMEN!
I hope and pray that something I said here will make sense to someone and they will search these things out with the Lord.
God bless.
we-live-now[/i]
Hi Help,
Thank you for pointing this out. I too, used to believe for almost a decade (because that is what my mainstream Church taught me) that this verse was about a believer who fell away once he believed. This often put FEAR in my heart and I would discuss this with the Pastors and remind them of 1 John 4:18 that says "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love." So, if I believe God and it brings fear, this is my first sign that something is wrong, so I kept digging.
May I share what I believe God showed me in the last 2 years during my studies and prayers? It is MOST glorious!
First, keep in mind this letter is to the "Hebrews" or the Jewish people. It is specifically written to them and address much of the law and how Jesus' one sacrifice was sufficient to completely fulfill the law for righteousness. There is NOTHING they need to do anymore to obtain righteousness (salvation) or to keep it. As it says "The blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin but were a reminder of sins" until the messiah would come and take away ALL sin for ALL TIME. They had to know this because sometimes a Jewish person returned back to their religious rituals (the law) after listening to ("tasting") the Gospel. I believe it is ok for them to perform their rituals in gratitude for the complete forgiveness of sins but not in any way to EARN the forgiveness. I also read that during the millennial age the Lord will bring back the sacrificial system for the Jews but it will be for thanks and gratitude only after the fact that they were saved. So, my first point is that this letter is written specifically to the Jewish person as it talks about the law specifically.
Secondly, let’s take a look at the verse(s) in question:
"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6
Look at how it says "tasted" multiple times. This is a HUGE clue. This is different than "swallowing" the word or "eating Jesus flesh and drinking his blood". Thus, this person is not a real believer, they have only heard the message but have not believed (consumed) it. This is why Jesus said "you must eat my flesh" and "drink my blood". You have to completely receive into your being which the person in Hebrews 6:4-6 has not.
Thirdly, look at what the writer says just before these verses as it also gives us clue:
"Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits." Hebrews 6:1-3
See what he is saying here? He is specifically talking about a person who wants to go back to the law (perform sacrifices/dead works) in order to obtain his righteousness/salvation. They want to try to "do" to obtain righteousness but that is impossible with God as it has to be a free gift. Paul tells us this in many places that the law can't give us righteousness, it has to come by faith according to the promise. Here is Gal 3:21 "For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law." Also, in Gal 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." Thus, in short, there is NOTHING we can do ourselves to obtain salvation (righteousness) and forgiveness of sins but he saw many Jews who were constantly coming back under the sacrificial laws in order to cover their sins. This one act of going back to the sacrificial system (Law) in order to cover your sins and obtain righteousness is the SIN that the writer of Hebrews talks about in Chapter 4! According to Chapter 10 verse 1 the law was only a "shadow" of the one sacrifice that was yet to come in Jesus. "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near."
Now, this is where it gets AWESOME! Check this out. Go to chapter 10 and slowly read the entire chapter. See verse 8 where it says that God never wanted sacrifices as it never pleased him! "After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them (which are offered according to the Law)," God REALLY desires a heart that thirsts for mercy, love and compassion but mostly a heart that knows it can't do anything to obtain its own righteousness through the law (trying to earn it by doing). That is why he sent Jesus to completely annul the first covenant of law (man does to earn righteousness) and put a brand new covenant based on Grace (God does it and it's a free gift). He tells us in the very next verse "9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.� He takes away the first in order to establish the second." The writer goes on after this to tell us the AMAZING thing that happened at the cross! ALL OUR SINS are gone forever and we have a completely CLEAN conscience now!!! There is no more need for us to do anything to obtain forgiveness other than believe it and THANK HIM! Our consciences are clean no matter what we still see in our lives. It's amazing.
However, what if someone won't accept this free gift yet insists on still trying to earn forgiveness by guilt or confession or any other works of the flesh?
In short, he's not happy with this! The writer of Hebrews goes onto tell us in the next verses and I strongly URGE the church pay attention to this because they are teaching the body to do this without EVEN REALIZING IT! This got me kicked out of my own church because they could NOT see this. That is why Paul calls the law “the ministry of death and condemnation� in 2 Cor 3:7 “But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory...� and Romans 4:15 “because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.“ and 2 Cor 3:9, etc. The law was never intended to give us righteousness but to minister death and condemnation to us so we realize we can do NOTHING to save ourselves or earn forgiveness and run to Jesus.
When we attempt to do anything when we sin other than just accept the free gift of forgiveness that we have because of his blood, we are actually "trampling under the foot of the son of God" because we do not believe in his work at the cross. We are once again regarding ourselves as "unclean" even though God says we are clean because of the Lord's blood only and not by anything we do. It is ALL GOD'S work and "no flesh shall glory in his presence" or be able to boast/brag. God tells us that we should “not regard that as unclean which God has made clean�. That is us! See Acts 10:15 and 11:9. This is NOT a good place to be according to Hebrews 10:26-31. I advise we read and pray over these verses carefully.
"26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.� And again, “The Lord will judge His people.� 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:26-31
We are given a very stern warning here. If we go back to the law trying to earn our own righteousness and not accepting it freely by Grace there simply is no more sacrifice for that sin because that covenant no longer exists. See in verse 29 how the blood of Christ has made us clean for ALL TIME by ONE ACT. We are NOT EVER TO CONSIDER OURSELVES as UNCLEAN and again try to atone for our own sins via any sacrifices no matter how "socially acceptable" they are such as confession, repentance, etc. We are not even supposed to feel guilty because the root of guilt is us doing something or trying to earn our own righteousness. It is VERY SAD because this is what the mainstream church teaches its very members to do! They are teaching them to TRAMPLE ON THE BLOOD OF CHRIST! The writer goes onto say in verse 28 what happened to those who disregarded the first covenant (Law of Moses). How much worse could it be to those who don’t accept the free gift or try to earn their own righteousness in the new covenant?
So, the ONE SIN that the writer talks about in Hebrews 10:26 is not accepting the one time free gift of salvation and righteousness that was offered up at the cross! This person either rejects it completely or is trying to go back under the old covenant of law and is trying to earn their own righteousness. This can be as simple as believing we need to confess our sins in order to be forgiven or cleansed. It’s a LIE as we were cleansed ONCE FOR ALL TIME. We need to just accept that ALL of our sins forever were forgiven and thank Jesus for that. That’s it, NOTHING else. Once this hits a person’s heart they will LEAP for JOY with love for the Lord.
So, that's the bad news.
The good news is that God is very rich in mercy and he "is love". I believe he is already starting to show the elect this and I am already seeing it in a few teachers out there already who are called "grace" teachers. It takes a great struggle in ones life and the intervention of God to see and understand Grace. It takes GREAT faith and it's difficult to freely accept and live in the Lord's grace especially when the enemy and our fallen flesh tries to condemn us. All of our mind's programming has to be undone from the world system. However, it takes little faith to live under the law because the law is very subtle and our flesh and the world system is setup to work with the law. Paul tells us this in Romans 3:12 "However, the Law is not of faith". I also have come to believe an even more glorious thing that the Lords Holy "fire" at the end times (against his "adversaries") will be a final refining or cleansing of all the worlds unrighteousness. He will burn away all sin and unrighteousness, but the people themselves will escape "as through a fire". We will finally see that man was NEVER God's enemy and that God loves all men. This would completely fulfill the promise that "Jesus is indeed the savior of the World!" AMEN!
I hope and pray that something I said here will make sense to someone and they will search these things out with the Lord.
God bless.
we-live-now[/i]
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help3434
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #42[Replying to post 41 by we-live-now]
If that is the case it would be better not to proselyte at all because if people do not hear the gospel at all then they can not taste the gift and cannot condemn themselves by rejecting it.
If that is the case it would be better not to proselyte at all because if people do not hear the gospel at all then they can not taste the gift and cannot condemn themselves by rejecting it.
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we-live-now
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #43Hi Help,help3434 wrote: [Replying to post 41 by we-live-now]
If that is the case it would be better not to proselyte at all because if people do not hear the gospel at all then they can not taste the gift and cannot condemn themselves by rejecting it.
Thanks for sharing this. Check this verse out.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18
God bless,
we-live-now
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Goat
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #44we-live-now wrote:Hi Help,help3434 wrote: [Replying to post 41 by we-live-now]
If that is the case it would be better not to proselyte at all because if people do not hear the gospel at all then they can not taste the gift and cannot condemn themselves by rejecting it.
Thanks for sharing this. Check this verse out.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18
God bless,
we-live-now
But, is that a true statement, or is it just a piece of propaganda to try to 'keep the sheep from wandering?
I mean, that is in direct conflict with
1 Timothy 4:10: that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
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help3434
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #45[Replying to post 43 by we-live-now]
So you can be condemned for not believing something that you don't even know about? Yeah, that makes sense.
So you can be condemned for not believing something that you don't even know about? Yeah, that makes sense.
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we-live-now
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #46Goat wrote:You have to decide that yourself if it's true or not, but I believe it to be true. The sheep are unable to "wander" because the sheep were loaded up into a space ship and sent to another planet completely. None of them have a space ship nor do they know how to fly. They can not wander off it in any way. So, in other words when a person believes, their Spirit actually becomes one with Christ. This happens in the Spirit realm "behind the veil". God the father does this and a human can do nothing to undo it. 1 Cor 1:30But, is that a true statement, or is it just a piece of propaganda to try to 'keep the sheep from wandering?
I don't see how it's in conflict with that verse? To me, 1 Tim 4:10 says " we have put our hope in the living God, who is the savior of all men (eventually all will believe and be saved!) especially of those who already believe now".I mean, that is in direct conflict with
1 Timothy 4:10: that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
Yes, I do believe the bible says ALL MEN will eventually believe and accept the free gift of eternal life in Christ. Most of the mainstream church has MISSED this but it's right there. See these verses (and there are TONS more like it that the Church skips over!):
"and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven." Colossians 1:20 Father God WILL reconcile all people and all creating things (remove all sin and death and decay) because is fully satisfied with the blood of Jesus.
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (repentance is just believe that Jesus paid for all your sins)." 2 Peter 3:9
"Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand." Proverbs 19:21 God will have his way.
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him" John 3:17 THIS IS GOD'S WAY! His will is to save the entire world and I believe he will do it in this or the next age.
Jesus said "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." John 6:38
Jesus said "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." John 6:39 The father wills that not a single soul be lost. Btw, do you know the word "perish" in the bible is really translated to mean "lost'? Mainstream Christianity has a "control" problem and loves to scare the crap out of the sheep. They tend to follow better when scared.
we-live-now
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Goat
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #47we-live-now wrote:You seem to be using a very non-standard translation. Which one are you relying on?Goat wrote:You have to decide that yourself if it's true or not, but I believe it to be true. The sheep are unable to "wander" because the sheep were loaded up into a space ship and sent to another planet completely. None of them have a space ship nor do they know how to fly. They can not wander off it in any way. So, in other words when a person believes, their Spirit actually becomes one with Christ. This happens in the Spirit realm "behind the veil". God the father does this and a human can do nothing to undo it. 1 Cor 1:30But, is that a true statement, or is it just a piece of propaganda to try to 'keep the sheep from wandering?
I don't see how it's in conflict with that verse? To me, 1 Tim 4:10 says " we have put our hope in the living God, who is the savior of all men (eventually all will believe and be saved!) especially of those who already believe now".I mean, that is in direct conflict with
1 Timothy 4:10: that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
Yes, I do believe the bible says ALL MEN will eventually believe and accept the free gift of eternal life in Christ. Most of the mainstream church has MISSED this but it's right there. See these verses (and there are TONS more like it that the Church skips over!):
"and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven." Colossians 1:20 Father God WILL reconcile all people and all creating things (remove all sin and death and decay) because is fully satisfied with the blood of Jesus.
"The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (repentance is just believe that Jesus paid for all your sins)." 2 Peter 3:9
"Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand." Proverbs 19:21 God will have his way.
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him" John 3:17 THIS IS GOD'S WAY! His will is to save the entire world and I believe he will do it in this or the next age.
Jesus said "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." John 6:38
Jesus said "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." John 6:39 The father wills that not a single soul be lost. Btw, do you know the word "perish" in the bible is really translated to mean "lost'? Mainstream Christianity has a "control" problem and loves to scare the crap out of the sheep. They tend to follow better when scared.
we-live-now
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
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we-live-now
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #48Goat wrote:Goat,You seem to be using a very non-standard translation. Which one are you relying on?
I usually use the New American Standard or Amplified (for further study or clarification) but often go to the original Greek words myself where their is confusion, disagreement or misunderstanding.
Sometimes I will line up 20 different translations and go through all of them.
I believe that the NASB (New American Standard) is closest to what I believe the original text was saying. I am no expert in Greek or Hebrew though. Just a simple country boy.
we-live-now
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Tiberius47
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Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #49I was a Christian because I was raised to be one. Then I started thinking about it and became an atheist.YahDough wrote: This is a question addressed only to former Christians who have left the faith.
Why did you become a Christian?
[/b]
Re: ? A Question For All Former Christians Who Fell Away ?
Post #50.
I was an atheist because I was raised to be one. Then I started thinking about it and became a Christian.Tiberius47 wrote: I was a Christian because I was raised to be one. Then I started thinking about it and became an atheist.
"I believe in no religion. There is absolutely no proof for any of them, and from a philosophical standpoint Christianity is not even the best. All religions, that is, all mythologies to give them their proper name, are merely man’s own invention..."
C.S. Lewis
C.S. Lewis
