Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

[Kuan]

So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!

[Katzpur]

If you believe in the Trinity, your Christian. You do not.

Wow, that's really too bad! You gotta feel for all those people who lived before 325 A.D. who were martyred for being Christians when they really weren't Christians at all. Even Jesus' Apostles were apparently just Christian wannabees.

The Apostles Creed condemns Mormonsim.

Could you quote the exact statement from it, please. I've read it a number of times, and I can't recall it saying anything of the kind.

The true source of Christianity, the church Christ established, what as stood for 2000+ years even says your not Christian.

Again, could you please provide an exact quote for that claim?

To be classed as a Christian, you need the essentials of Christianity, which Mormonism does not profess. Protestants are even classed as Christian because they uphold the essentials of Christianity.

Wow, silly me. I thought it had something to do with a belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of the world. When did this all change?

We don't, in fact, deny that many Mormons try to love and serve the Lord Jesus. Active members do genuinely try to make him and his will a center in their daily lives, but your not Christian. Just as Protestants are not in the Church of Christ, Mormons are not in the Abrahamic faith of Christianity.

You know when I read statements like this, it almost makes me glad you don't consider us to be Christians. Why anybody want to be associated with such narrow-minded bigotry is beyond me. At any rate, who really cares? You're entitled to your opinion; I'm entitled to me. And God, fortunately, isn't going to need any help deciding.

[Darias]

If you believe in the Trinity, your Christian. You do not.

1.) I myself have doubts about the Trinity. I was raised to believe in it but I still have questions about it. I haven't rejected it altogether. For me, a lack of knowing for sure does not reverse my Salvation, neither does it make me any less of a Christian.


Christ never claimed to be God, and never sought equality with God.

Christ was one with God. Christ is our mediator. Christ is our savior.

Christ prayed to God

Christ worshiped God

Christ sought the glory of God not himself, if Christ was God that would be an illogical contradiction.

Jesus is the Son of God.

While Jesus claimed oneness with God, he never claimed to be God -- He actually referred to himself as the son of man.


2.) I believe that He is God's Son and that he died for the sins of mankind, and that He is our mediator.

But I pray to God, I worship God. Even when I unquestionably believed in the trinity, and the oneness of three -- in my mind, I was worshiping God.

Verses like these make it somewhat difficult to fully accept the doctrine of Trinity:

For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'

Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Verses like these make it difficult to question the doctrine of the Trinity. Perhaps this passage refers to Christ being in the image of God, as all men are -- perhaps this passage is stressing his humanity more than his divinity. I do not know.

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

3.) Here is a really detailed debate HUB of a Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian -- both of whom believe in Christ as their savior, both of whom are Biblical, conservative Christians. But both interpret the Bible differently. One argues that Christ is God, the other argues He is not. Both agree that Jesus is the Son of God. They both use tons of scripture and other arguments to defend their convictions.

[Katzpur]

But both interpret the Bible differently. One argues that Christ is God, the other argues He is not. Both agree that Jesus is the Son of God. They both use tons of scripture and other arguments to defend their convictions.

Since this thread was originally started to discuss Mormonism, I'll explain the Mormon position.

We believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. While we believe that God is the Father of the spirits of each and every person who has ever lived, and that we are all His spirit offspring, Jesus Christ is most definitely in a class by Himself. He was with His Father in the beginning. Under His Father's direction, He created worlds without number. He was chosen to be "the Lamb" prior to the foundation of this world. He sits today on the right hand of His Father. Along with the Holy Ghost, the Father and the Son make up the Godhead.

We believe that our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ have a true father-son relationship. The words, "Father" and "Son," in other words, mean exactly what they say. They are not metaphorical or symbolic of a vague metaphysical relationship, in which two beings are some how both part of a single essence. We are each the physical sons and daughters of our mortal parents. Jesus Christ is the literal, physical Son of a divine Father and a mortal Mother. He was conceived in a miraculous way, but like all sons, was in the "express image of His Father's person." That is to say, He looked like Him. Dogs beget puppies, and cats beget kittens. God beget a Son who is the same species as He is. They both have bodies of flesh and bone (although, until His birth in Bethlehem, Jesus Christ was a spirit being only).

The Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, and yet they are also "one." This doctrine is taught in the Book of Mormon as well as in the Bible. We just understand the word "one" to mean something other than physical substance or essence. We believe they are "one in will and purpose, one in mind and heart, and one in power and glory." It would be impossible to explain, or even to understand, the degree of their unity. It is perfect; it is absolute. They think, feel and act as "one God." Because of this perfect unity, and because they share the title of "God," we think of them together in this way. It would be impossible for us to worship one of them without also worshipping the other.

Most Christians also use the words co-equal and co-eternal to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son. We do not. We believe that, as is again the case with all fathers and sons, the Father existed prior to His Son. No son's existence precedes his father's, and Jesus Christ is no exception to this rule. We also believe Christ to be subordinate to His Father. He is divine because of His relationship with His Father. It is, however, important to understand what we mean when we use the word "subordinate." We understand that the Son holds a subordinate position in the relationship; we do not believe Him to be an inferior being. As an example, a colonel holds an inferior position to a general, but is not an inferior being. To most people's way of thinking, an ant, however, is an inferior being to a human.

[sleepyhead]

Hello mormonboy,

Sorry to resurect an old thread but I changed my mind. I now believe mormons (for the most part anyway) are Christians. I think the title depends on whether they do something that (or in the case of religions this would include believe something) is unique to Christianity. For example a window washer would be able to claim that title only if he washes windows. A brain surgeons would need to do some stuff with brains. Since mormons do stuff that's unique to Christianity they can properly claim the title of Christian.

[nygreenguy]

Hello mormonboy,

Sorry to resurect an old thread but I changed my mind. I now believe mormons (for the most part anyway) are Christians. I think the title depends on whether they do something that (or in the case of religions this would include believe something) is unique to Christianity. For example a window washer would be able to claim that title only if he washes windows. A brain surgeons would need to do some stuff with brains. Since mormons do stuff that's unique to Christianity they can properly claim the title of Christian.

Yes, mormons are christians. This whole "no true scotsman" is getting old. All it takes to be a christian is to believe jesus is the sun of god and the savior of man. Everything else (trinity, etc...) is just fluff.

[sleepyhead]

Hello mormonboy,

Sorry to resurect an old thread but I changed my mind. I now believe mormons (for the most part anyway) are Christians. I think the title depends on whether they do something that (or in the case of religions this would include believe something) is unique to Christianity. For example a window washer would be able to claim that title only if he washes windows. A brain surgeons would need to do some stuff with brains. Since mormons do stuff that's unique to Christianity they can properly claim the title of Christian.

Yes, mormons are christians. This whole "no true scotsman" is getting old. All it takes to be a christian is to believe jesus is the sun of god and the savior of man. Everything else (trinity, etc...) is just fluff.

Since I have chosen not to personally claim Christianity it doesn't matter for me but the problem I see with your reasoning is that you define what beliefs are required. That is what I did on my earlier post and determined that mormons are not Christians. Now I believe that in order for a person to claim he is a policeman he needs to be doing something which is unique to policeman. He may just work in an office or he may walk a beat.

[sleepyhead]

Hello mormonboy,

Sorry to resurect an old thread but I changed my mind. I now believe mormons (for the most part anyway) are Christians. I think the title depends on whether they do something that (or in the case of religions this would include believe something) is unique to Christianity. For example a window washer would be able to claim that title only if he washes windows. A brain surgeons would need to do some stuff with brains. Since mormons do stuff that's unique to Christianity they can properly claim the title of Christian.

Yes, mormons are christians. This whole "no true scotsman" is getting old. All it takes to be a christian is to believe jesus is the sun of god and the savior of man. Everything else (trinity, etc...) is just fluff.

Hello,

Looking at your post again a lot hangs on what you mean by Jesus is the savior of man. Saved from what? Mormons have both salvation and exaltation while mainstream Christianity only has salvation. So they are saved from not going to heaven, and not achieving exaltation.
1. In order to be a Christian, by your definition, if an individual believed in exaltation, as most Mormons do, would he be required to believe that Jesus saved him from not being exalted in order to be a Christian?

2. If an individual wanting exaltation, was taught that to take part in the ceremonies required for this exaltation, he must be considered worthy by an organization, (in this case the LDS church), and this organization could give the thumbs up or thumbs down with regards to whether he could partake of the required ceremonies, would that individual still be relying on Jesus as saving him from non exaltation.

[Kuan]

Hello mormonboy,

Sorry to resurect an old thread but I changed my mind. I now believe mormons (for the most part anyway) are Christians. I think the title depends on whether they do something that (or in the case of religions this would include believe something) is unique to Christianity. For example a window washer would be able to claim that title only if he washes windows. A brain surgeons would need to do some stuff with brains. Since mormons do stuff that's unique to Christianity they can properly claim the title of Christian.

Yes, mormons are christians. This whole "no true scotsman" is getting old. All it takes to be a christian is to believe jesus is the sun of god and the savior of man. Everything else (trinity, etc...) is just fluff.

Hello,

Looking at your post again a lot hangs on what you mean by Jesus is the savior of man. Saved from what? Mormons have both salvation and exaltation while mainstream Christianity only has salvation. So they are saved from not going to heaven, and not achieving exaltation.
1. In order to be a Christian, by your definition, if an individual believed in exaltation, as most Mormons do, would he be required to believe that Jesus saved him from not being exalted in order to be a Christian?

The exaltation belief would really be fluff. Plus ive never heard of a belief that Jesus saved us from exaltation, so it doesnt really cause an issue.

2. If an individual wanting exaltation, was taught that to take part in the ceremonies required for this exaltation, he must be considered worthy by an organization, (in this case the LDS church), and this organization could give the thumbs up or thumbs down with regards to whether he could partake of the required ceremonies, would that individual still be relying on Jesus as saving him from non exaltation.

I really dont see how this is at all not relying upon Jesus for salvation.

[flitzerbiest]

The reason some Christians do not see Mormons as Christians is the same reason for any schism. Amongst those who divide churches, the need for doctrinal purity exceeds the need for continued fellowship. In other words, "All you need is truth" ends up trumping "All you need is love". I don't think we can honestly say how such a mindset arises, but we can recognize that it is quite common within religion in general, and that it comes off as less than noble.

[nygreenguy]

Since I have chosen not to personally claim Christianity it doesn't matter for me but the problem I see with your reasoning is that you define what beliefs are required.

No, I look at the very bacic part of what the bible says, and what the first followers did.

Looking at your post again a lot hangs on what you mean by Jesus is the savior of man. Saved from what?

Eternal death. A sacrifice had to be made to atone for the sins of Adam, some on equal or greater footing that Adam, Jesus.

1. In order to be a Christian, by your definition, if an individual believed in exaltation, as most Mormons do, would he be required to believe that Jesus saved him from not being exalted in order to be a Christian?

I never said a word about exaltation. that goes beyond what is required to be a christian, that could simply be a denominational thing.