Who do YOU think Jesus is?

[Rose2020]

Mathew 16 verses 13-20.

Atheists who come here often ask Christian believers for proof, evidence that Jesus was who He said He was in the Bible.

I say carefully read the section above. No human being can convince someone that God exists, that Jesus is Messiah. The question always has to be - who do YOU think He is? The answer always has to be answered by God Himself. Only He can change your heart and bring you to faith, if you are open to it. Life can and does bring people to that place.

This is true for me. I was an atheist until I decided I could not live life that way any longer. So I prayed and the faith came to me. I have absolutely no doubt.

So who do you say Jesus was?

[Rose2020]

[Replying to Tcg in post #17]

Yes I was taught and knew of Jesus. But it was all meaningless until I prayed in private. Then I felt the presence of Him and the effects in my life and I know He is real. More real than this world and far more important.

[Koberstein]

Yeshua was an observant Jew, rabbi and Torah teacher. He was also the Savior of humanity by His crucifixion.
Those who put their faith and trust in Yeshua for forgiveness of their sins would inherit eternal life with
him.

Shalom Aleichem

[RBD]

[Replying to Tcg in post #5]

No mistake, it is present tense. Jesus IS alive.

Perhaps in the imaginations of his followers. No reason to think a 1st century Jewish carpenter turned failed apocalyptic preacher is still alive in any literal sense. If there was such a person, he is long dead. 2,000 years' worth of being dead.


Tcg

So, you think He was a 1st century Jewish carpenter turned failed apocalyptic preacher.

That's historically agreed with. But you're also one of those that say He failed. Why? How did He fail?

[OneJack]

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #1]

So who do you say Jesus was?

Jesus is the Almighty God who came in the flesh (the body of the Son of God) during the apostles time. He cannot be seen momentarily but can be spoken to by those who seek Him with a true heart.

Thus saith the Lord Jesus:

Kayong lahat nang magsisipakinig ay makinig kayo, Ako ang inyong Panginoong Diyos, kanino kayo matatakot? Ako na Makapangyarihan sa lahat, kanino kayo masisindak? Tandaan ninyo na pag Ako ang nasa tabi ninyo ay wala kayong dapat katakutan, wala kayong dapat ipangamba sapagka't Ako ang magliligtas sa inyo sa anumang kapahamakan kung kayo'y magtitiwala sa Akin at Ako'y ituturing nyo bilang inyong kaligtasan at buhay na walang hanggan. Bilang inyong Panginoon na inyo lamang sasambahin at wala ng iba, ang nag-iisang Diyos na umiiral sa sangkalangitan, sangkalupaan o sansinukob man. Ako na lumikha ng lahat ng bagay, Ako na nagbigay buhay sa inyo, kanino kayo pupunta? Kung hindi man sa Akin ay wala na kayong ibang pupuntahan."

Tandaan ninyo na ang buhay na walang hanggan at ang inyong kaligtasan ay nasa Aking mga kamay. Kung gusto ninyong maligtas, halikayot lumapit sa Akin. Kung gusto ninyo ng buhay na walang hanggan, halikayot magsitawag sa Akin. Akoy inyong pagkatiwalaan sapagkat pag hindi ninyo nagawa ang bagay na ito ay wala kayong kaligtasan at buhay na walang hanggan. Wala kayong pupuntahan kundi kapahamakan at kahirapan. Sapagkat kung kayoy sa Akin lalapit ay wala kayong ibang makakamtan kundi kapayapaan, kapayapaan kung inyo itong tatamuhin kung Akoy inyong pagkakatiwalaan, kung kayoy magtitiwala sa Akin nang buong puso at buong pag-ibig ninyo. Buong pag-ibig nyo Akong iibigin at wala kayong ibang sasambahin kundi Ako lamang, Ako na nag-iisang Panginoon nyo.

"Tandaan n'yo na sa lahat ng oras na kayo'y nangangailangan ng tulong ay nasa tabi n'yo lamang Ako, nasa Akin man kayo o wala ay nasa tabi n'yo lamang Ako't tumatanglaw sa inyong daan upang makita n'yo ang kaliwanangan at lalo ninyong makikita ang landas patungo sa kaharian ng langit kung kayo'y magbabalik loob sa Akin, tatalikdan ang inyong mga masasamang gawain at inyong haharapin ang Aking mga yapak at sususdan n'yo ang Ilaw ng sanlibutan. Tandaan n'yo. Ako'y Panginoon n'yong Diyos na mapanibughuin kaya't wala kayong ibang sasambahin kundi Ako lamang. Wala kayong ibang tatawagin sa oras ng pangangailangan kundi ang Aking pangalan at kayo'y Aking iaalis kung saan man kayo naroon at ni galos ay wala kayong matatamo kung Aking loloobin."

"Tandaan n'yo na Ako ang may hawak sa inyong buhay kaya't ang buhay n'yo ay sa Akin nakasalalay. Tandaan n'yo na kung nuong una ay wala kayo sa Akin ay may demonyo nang umaaligid sa inyo upang tuksuhin kayo ay dodoblehin pa nito kapag kayo'y lumagay sa Akin. Kung tatlo ang demonyo sa inyo nuong una ay mahigit sampu ito kapag kayo ay lumagay sa Akin sapagka't kayo-y kanilang hahatakin upng kayo'y maligaw pa ng landas. Tandaan ninyo na kung Ako'y sumasainyo, gayundin naman kayo'y sumasaakin at lahat kayo na tatawag sa Akin sa tamang paraan ay Aking hihirangin sa sanlibutan. Kayo'y Aking hinihirang upang magkalat ng Aking banal na salita. Kayo'y magsiyaon at gawin n'yong mga Aking alagad at disipulo ang lahat ng mga bansa at kayo'y Aking binabasbasan sa pangalan ng Ama, sa pangalan ng Anak, at sa pangalan ng Banal na Espiritru."

English Translation:

ll of you who are listening, listen carefully! I am your Lord God. Who are you afraid of? I am the Almighty. Who are you intimidated by? Remember, when I am by your side, you have nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, because I will save you from any calamity if you trust in Me and regard Me as your salvation and eternal life. As your Lord, whom you alone will worship and none other, I am the one true God existing in heaven, earth, or universe. I created all things, I gave you life. Where will you go? If not to Me, you have nowhere else to go.

Remember, eternal life and your salvation are in My hands. If you want to be saved, come and draw near to Me. If you want eternal life, come and call upon Me. Trust in Me, because if you don't, you will have no salvation and no eternal life. You will have nowhere to go but to calamity and suffering. But if you draw near to Me, you will attain nothing but peace " peace if you accept it, if you trust in Me, if you believe in Me with all your heart and all your love. Love Me with all your heart, and worship none other but Me, the one and only Lord.

Remember, at all times when you need help, I am always by your side. Whether you are with Me or not, I am always by your side, shining light on your path so you can see the light and more clearly see the way to the kingdom of heaven if you return to Me, turn away from your evil deeds, and follow in My footsteps, following the Light of the world. Remember, I am your Lord God, a jealous God, so worship none other but Me. Call upon no other name in times of need but Mine, and I will lift you up from wherever you are, and you will attain nothing but blessings if I permit it.

Remember, I hold your lives in My hands, and your lives depend on Me. Remember, if before you weren't with Me, demons were already lurking around you to tempt you, and it will double when you're with Me. If there were three demons with you before, it will be more than ten when you're with Me, because they will pull you away to lead you astray. Remember, if I am with you, you are with Me, and all who call upon Me in the right way, I will choose them in the world. I have chosen you to spread My holy word. Go forth and make all nations My servants and disciples, and I bless you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[IanMac]

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #1]

Hi Rose.

In the book of Daniel is the prophecy as to when the Messiah would appear, given by Gabriel. Daniel 9:24-27.

The prophecy gives 70 weeks, which is the time given to the Jewish nation. These are prophetic weeks of years (70 x 7 = 490 years), a day for a year.

The prophecy is to start from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem with a wall and streets. You read this decree in Ezra 7, and also the exact date (day, month and year) that the decree went forth. This was in 457 or 458 BC, on the first day of the new Jewish year.

As Gabriel gave the prophecy to Daniel, the Messiah was to appear at the beginning of the last 7 years measured on the Jewish nation. He was then to be cut off in the middle of that time, or 3 1/2 years later, and thereby put an end to the sacrificial system (bring an end to sacrifice).

A total of 490 years (70 x 7), with the Messiah appearing exactly at the beginning of the last 7 years. That is 483 years after the decree of Ezra 7.

From 457/458 BC plus 483 years we get to AD 28/29 (funny calc as there is no year zero AD or BC).

But as you can see, Jesus appeared precisely when the Bible said he would. He taught for 3 1/2 years as predicted, was cut off but not for himself, put an end to sacrifice (the true sacrifice was made that all the other sacrifices pointed towards - the temple veil was torn top to bottom).

Gabriels prophecy as recorded by Daniel was precisely fulfilled, as precisely as was Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53.

So Jesus was clearly the Messiah, the anointed one, the Prince (the son of the King), or as otherwise predicted, he was Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Who else could he be, prophesied in 538 BC (Daniel 9) over half a millennium earlier, appearing exactly as given, doing exactly as prophesied, everything down to a T.

So given such ironclad assurance I do not believe who He is, I know who He is. And as trustworthy and as accurate as the Bible is in that prediction, so it is with everything else.

Then, 3 1/2 years later with the stoning of Stephen as recorded in the book of Acts 7 and as Acts 8:1 says on that day a great persecution broke out against the church by the Jewish nation. It was AD 34. The 490 years had closed and the Jewish nation not content only with the death of the Messiah at their hands, now wanted to destroy all his followers as well.

That was the end of the Jewish nation as a chosen people of God and from now on the children of Abraham were only those who were grafted in by faith. For Jew or Gentile the same rule applied from then on, by faith and faith alone. Now the church is the Israel of God.

The preceding prophecy is so accurate as to preclude any other alternative, but as history proves, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Jesus himself said, unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. It is likely to remain virtually invisible to any non believer until something clicks and they suddenly see everything in a new light, or else sadly when face to face with God all atheists go extinct, as at that time no-one can deny what is in front of them.

That is my personal take on an answer as to who Jesus is to me, with a focus more on those things even atheists have to consider carefully, and not on personal experience which is simply written off as delusional.

[OneJack]

[Replying to IanMac in post #25]

That is my personal take on an answer as to who Jesus is to me, with a focus more on those things even atheists have to consider carefully, and not on personal experience which is simply written off as delusional.

Could you clarify the meaning behind the words highlighted in blue at the end of your message?"

[IanMac]

The God Delusion is a 2006 book by British evolutionary biologist and ethologist Richard Dawkins, in which he argues that a supernatural creator, God, does not exist, and that belief in a personal god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. In the book, he expresses his agreement to Robert Pirsig's statement in Lila (1991) that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

[OneJack]

The God Delusion is a 2006 book by British evolutionary biologist and ethologist Richard Dawkins, in which he argues that a supernatural creator, God, does not exist, and that belief in a personal god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. In the book, he expresses his agreement to Robert Pirsig's statement in Lila (1991) that "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

Thank you! But what about personal experiences with Jesus today that mirror those of Moses, the apostles, and Paul with the Living Christ Jesus? What's your perspective on such encounters?

[Dimmesdale]

[Replying to Rose2020 in post #1]

I am not 100% sure who Jesus was. I hardly think anyone in their right mind would think, much less claim, they know.

I am convinced though that he was A Son of God. I will not say any more about that. People need to come to their own conclusions.

I will say, though, that many of the depictions of Jesus I have seen in media, such as, for example, "The Chosen" fall completely flat for me. They come across either, as phony, superficial, or on the other hand as impossibly distant, and unapproachable. To conceive that this was "God in the flesh" seems to me to put upon Jesus airs which are... not only unrenderable but also, impossible. Jesus was not, in my opinion (for what it's worth) the incarnation of "the Transcendent Old Man in the Sky..." If Jesus was A Son of God, as I believe he was, such absurd airs as I find in the various movies and miniseries which depict him, would not be applied. Jesus would remain a human sage. Not some "holier than all else" God. God Himself would not require such phony airs. In my opinion.

But, take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't claim any expertise on Christology or the nature of Christ, if there is one....

[OneJack]

[Replying to Dimmesdale in post #29]

I am not 100% sure who Jesus was. I hardly think anyone in their right mind would think, much less claim, they know.

What do you think of those people who are being shepherded and guided by Jesus today? Aren't they of sound mind because they know who Jesus is in His existence and living?"