Why are there 33,839 different Christian denominations?

[Zzyzx]

If Christianity is based upon the Bible, and if the Bible is “the infallible word of god” (or even the fallible word of god) why are 33,830 different Christian denominations recognized by the World Christian Encyclopedia?

Supposedly these denominations are all worshiping the same god from the same (or similar) ancient text. How can one god be “infallibly correct” in 33,830 different ways?

If there are at least 33,000 different “interpretations” of “god’s word”, it seems as though any interpretation can be just as valid as any other and words can be “redefined” to mean exactly the opposite of their common meaning.

[twobitsmedia]

Agreed, micatala. I think the Catholics in the pews are often better than some Protestants at approaching the Christian ideal and working for social justice.

I believe the Catholic Church would do well to continue on the path that Pope John Paul II had set it on. The Catholic Church does an immense amount of good in the world, from having the courage to oppose brutal right-wing dictatorships in Central America (where the United States did not) to doing social justice work in southeast Asia to end slavery and human trafficking. But I think the Catholic Church could do even more good if they didn't spend so much effort trying to save face with regard to doctrine (such as those regarding birth control and clerical celibacy) particularly in areas where such doctrines (when taken without regard to circumstance) do more harm than good.

Amnesty Internatinal, the United Way, and the Red Cross do good social things also. Does that make those organizations Christian?

[MagusYanam]

I think that fighting for social justice is necessary to being Christian (Christian groups must have social conscience and do what they can to alleviate poverty, speak out for human rights, defend the sanctity of life, et cetera), but not sufficient (not every group that does these things can be considered Christian).

Christianity must be Gospel-centred, meaning that those who adhere to Christian doctrine must acknowledge the transforming self-sacrificial love and grace of Jesus Christ, and that through this love and grace the world is saved. And I think that to be an honest and good Christian, they must attempt to reflect this transforming, self-sacrificial love and grace in the world at large.

I know that Catholicism (at least as practised by many people in the pews) is Gospel-centred, and that some Catholics of my personal acquaintance are very good at demonstrating that kind of giving and that kind of graciousness that are hallmarks of the Christian life. I think the Church structure and some of the doctrines of the Catholic Church have problems, but I don't think that these problems exclude them from being Christian.

[Goat]

In my opinion, there is only one church that was started by Jesus Christ. That church is the Catholic church. All other Christian churches were started by a human being.

Didn't realize Jesus was a Catholic? Thats news to me? I thought He was Jewish?

Biker

Great Scot! You're right.

Does this mean all Christians are really Jews?


But seriously, Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful, and they have a lot of problems in the history of the church, but I still think they are Christian.

No, because they had abandoned the idea that God is 100% spirit, 100% of the time, and they accepted the diefication of a man.

[Biker]

In my opinion, there is only one church that was started by Jesus Christ. That church is the Catholic church. All other Christian churches were started by a human being.

Didn't realize Jesus was a Catholic? Thats news to me? I thought He was Jewish?

Biker

Great Scot! You're right.

Does this mean all Christians are really Jews?


But seriously, Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful, and they have a lot of problems in the history of the church, but I still think they are Christian.

Catholics, I still think they are Christian.

I think they are if they are depending upon and exhibiting faith in what Jesus did for them, as an individual, as opposed to what the Catholic church does for them. So, in that way I think you can be Christian, by faith in Jesus, not membership in a particular group.
It is true for, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, whatever. Being this or that is not the issue. It is your personal faith, and your personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. So, yes a Catholic can be a Christian, and a Christian can be a Catholic.

Does this mean that all Christians are really Jews?

Yes, grafted in Jews. The blessings of Abraham are available to Christians by faith. It has always been according to faith. Was Abraham made righteous by circumcision, or by faith? It has always been by faith. Looking forward it was faith in what God was going to do through the promised one, and looking back it is faith in what was done by the promised one, the one is Jesus Hamachiach.

Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful,

If you will look very closely in the New Testament, it is amazingly silent on how to corporately worship God. It is left to unique, corporate local expression, in style and how it should look.
When all is said and done, there is universal agreement on Jesus Christ. No matter the group name.

Biker

[Biker]

In my opinion, there is only one church that was started by Jesus Christ. That church is the Catholic church. All other Christian churches were started by a human being.

Didn't realize Jesus was a Catholic? Thats news to me? I thought He was Jewish?

Biker

Great Scot! You're right.

Does this mean all Christians are really Jews?


But seriously, Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful, and they have a lot of problems in the history of the church, but I still think they are Christian.

No, because they had abandoned the idea that God is 100% spirit, 100% of the time, and they accepted the diefication of a man.

No, because they had abandoned the idea that God is 100% spirit, 100% of the time, and they accepted the diefication of a man.

This is a strange doctrine, considering the many Scriptures in your Tanakh. You are partially correct. Sort of like, close, it only counts in a game of horseshoes or in hand grenades, not when it comes to something as important as the Hamachiach.
To cure your temporary Judaic amnesia: Gen 3:15. "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will strike your head, and you will strike his heel."
Deut 18:15-18. "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you shall heed such a prophet. This is what you requested of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said:'If I hear the voice of the Lord my God any more, or ever see this great fire, I will die.' Then the Lord replied to me: 'They are right in what they have said. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command."
1 Chron 5:2. "though Judah became prominent among his brothers and a ruler came from him,"
Psa 2:7. "I will tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to me, 'You are my son; today I have begotten you.'"
Psa 40:7. " Then I said, 'Here I am; in the scroll of the book it is written of me.'"
Psa 80:17. "But let your hand be upon the one at your right hand, the one whom you made strong for yourself."
Psa 89:19. "Then you spoke in a vision to your faithful one, and said: 'I have set the crown on one who is mighty, I have exalted one chosen from the people.'"
Isa 7:14-16. "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."
Isa 9:6 "For a child has been born for us; a son is given to us; authority rests upon his shoulders; and he is named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Isa 11:1. "A shoot shall come out of the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots."
Isa 32:1-2. " See, a king will reign in righteousness, and princes will rule with justice. Each will be like a hiding place from the wind, a covert from the tempest, like streams of water in a dry place, like the shade of a great rock in a weary land."
Isa 49:1+5. "Listen to me, O coastlands, pay attention, you peoples from far away! The Lord called me before I was born, while I was in my mothers womb he named me. And now the Lord says, who formed me in the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him, and that Israel might be gathered to him, for I am honored in the sight of the Lord, and my God has become my strength-"
Jer 23:5. " The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land."
Mic 5:2-3. "But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to rule in Israel,whose origin is from old, from ancient days. Therefore he shall give them up until the time when she who is in labor has brought forth; then the rest of his kindred shall return to the people of Israel."
I hope that helps brings to remembrance that YHWH in detail explained his intervention in a body on the earth. His name in English: Jesus Christ.

Biker

[Goat]

In my opinion, there is only one church that was started by Jesus Christ. That church is the Catholic church. All other Christian churches were started by a human being.

Didn't realize Jesus was a Catholic? Thats news to me? I thought He was Jewish?

Biker

Great Scot! You're right.

Does this mean all Christians are really Jews?


But seriously, Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful, and they have a lot of problems in the history of the church, but I still think they are Christian.

No, because they had abandoned the idea that God is 100% spirit, 100% of the time, and they accepted the diefication of a man.

No, because they had abandoned the idea that God is 100% spirit, 100% of the time, and they accepted the diefication of a man.

This is a strange doctrine, considering the many Scriptures in your Tanakh. You are partially correct. Sort of like, close, it only counts in a game of horseshoes or in hand grenades, not when it comes to something as important as the Hamachiach.
To cure your temporary Judaic amnesia: Gen 3:15. "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will strike your head, and you will strike his heel."
Deut 18:15-18. "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you shall heed such a prophet. This is what you requested of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said:'If I hear the voice of the Lord my God any more, or ever see this great fire, I will die.' Then the Lord replied to me: 'They are right in what they have said. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command."

A prophet is not god. A prophet is a man.

1 Chron 5:2. "though Judah became prominent among his brothers and a ruler came from him,"
Psa 2:7. "I will tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to me, 'You are my son; today I have begotten you.'

We are all god's children. However, the term 'son of god' refers to someone who has , due to his actions, become particularly rightous. It does not mean a physical son of god. that is a later Christian corruption, taken from the pagan mystery reliigions.

"
Psa 40:7. " Then I said, 'Here I am; in the scroll of the book it is written of me.'"
Psa 80:17. "But let your hand be upon the one at your right hand, the one whom you made strong for yourself."
Psa 89:19. "Then you spoke in a vision to your faithful one, and said: 'I have set the crown on one who is mighty, I have exalted one chosen from the people.'"

Yes, god is discussed in a book. THat does nto mean god is a man.

Isa 7:14-16. "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

As always, the out of context quote of the Christian fails to see that Isaiah was
discussing that his own son was to be the sign. The sign actually was not the son itself, but rather certain events would occure between the time the son was concieved, and was old enough to understand what good and evil is. Maybe you should try to read it in context someday.

Isa 9:6 "For a child has been born for us; a son is given to us; authority rests upon his shoulders; and he is named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Isa 11:1. "A shoot shall come out of the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of his roots."
Isa 32:1-2. " See, a king will reign in righteousness, and princes will rule with justice. Each will be like a hiding place from the wind, a covert from the tempest, like streams of water in a dry place, like the shade of a great rock in a weary land."

INdeed, and in all these cases, Isaiah is discussing King Ahaz's son Hezeikel. The isaiah 9:6 was the royal names for Heziekel. Your point?? A king is not a god.

Isa 49:1+5. "Listen to me, O coastlands, pay attention, you peoples from far away! The Lord called me before I was born, while I was in my mothers womb he named me. And now the Lord says, who formed me in the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him, and that Israel might be gathered to him, for I am honored in the sight of the Lord, and my God has become my strength-"
Jer 23:5. " The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land."
Mic 5:2-3. "But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to rule in Israel,whose origin is from old, from ancient days. Therefore he shall give them up until the time when she who is in labor has brought forth; then the rest of his kindred shall return to the people of Israel."
I hope that helps brings to remembrance that YHWH in detail explained his intervention in a body on the earth. His name in English: Jesus Christ.

Biker

on the contray, Isaiah 48 is discussing the nation of Isreal. While Jeremiah and Michah are discussing the potential for a MEssiah, in the Jewish expectations
and the jewish understanding of the Messiah, it woudl be a human king. You are ripping sentances out of the Tanakah without understanding the surrounding passages, and the Jewish expectations and culture of the time. You are imposing your own bias, without reason or thought, unto passages that are totally unrelated with your bias.

[melikio]

In my opinion, there is only one church that was started by Jesus Christ. That church is the Catholic church. All other Christian churches were started by a human being.

Didn't realize Jesus was a Catholic? Thats news to me? I thought He was Jewish?

Biker

Great Scot! You're right.

Does this mean all Christians are really Jews?


But seriously, Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful, and they have a lot of problems in the history of the church, but I still think they are Christian.

Catholics, I still think they are Christian.

I think they are if they are depending upon and exhibiting faith in what Jesus did for them, as an individual, as opposed to what the Catholic church does for them. So, in that way I think you can be Christian, by faith in Jesus, not membership in a particular group.
It is true for, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, whatever. Being this or that is not the issue. It is your personal faith, and your personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. So, yes a Catholic can be a Christian, and a Christian can be a Catholic.

Does this mean that all Christians are really Jews?

Yes, grafted in Jews. The blessings of Abraham are available to Christians by faith. It has always been according to faith. Was Abraham made righteous by circumcision, or by faith? It has always been by faith. Looking forward it was faith in what God was going to do through the promised one, and looking back it is faith in what was done by the promised one, the one is Jesus Hamachiach.

Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful,

If you will look very closely in the New Testament, it is amazingly silent on how to corporately worship God. It is left to unique, corporate local expression, in style and how it should look.
When all is said and done, there is universal agreement on Jesus Christ. No matter the group name.

Biker

Biker, I didn't say the things you quoted; check your references.

-Mel-

[melikio]

THis is a good point. It is worth remembering Romans chapter 14. There Paul talks about how both those who eat meat and those who choose not too can both be correct and in right standing with God. Believers of these differing practices should not judge each other. People can worship that same God and do so in different ways and both can be 'right.' Thus, the contention that the multiplicity of denominations is necessarily a problem, and that only one of them at most can be right, is certainly not supported by scripture.

You are correct, in my opinion

I think people (very generally speaking) are often too hard on others, about that which they believe in (or not). Religious folks can be very difficult "people"; not necessarily on purpose, but because their (our) lives are substantially defined by our beliefs, we aren't as flexible (patient, forbearing or compassionate) as we might think. Still, the WORST people I've encountered are those who believe their religious beliefs actually justify the things they decide to do to others.

It would be fine if people would simply believe what they do (and live by it), but often religious beliefs are used as a sword or bulldozer to coerce, bully and compel other people toward involuntary adherence or compliance. That is what takes the level of contentiousness to the hateful, violent attitudes and behaviors that tend to allow evil to flourish.

Of course, there are many demoninations or views of what is "Christian". We don't all "agree" on everything, and in this life we never will. I admit, that I'm intolerant of people FORCING religion or morality; for it causes problems, and ultimately makes the world worse. When mutual respect and compassion are honored, mankind is better off; and in that spirit, all the things Jesus said and did become more real and beneficial, than existing as rules or regulations (religion comes alive, and has more meaning).

There are undefined connections between ALL believers, and the right way to experience those connections is in LOVE (agape). Not that everything that is "good" is necessarily "Christian", but that what is truly good aids in promoting the actual message of Jesus Christ. Religion is often argued and disputed; I've seen so many interpretations and opinions, very little of it seems worthwhile to me anymore; but there are some things about Christ, that have been a part of me all of my life (and likely will continue to be, for the rest of it).

-Mel-

[Biker]

In my opinion, there is only one church that was started by Jesus Christ. That church is the Catholic church. All other Christian churches were started by a human being.

Didn't realize Jesus was a Catholic? Thats news to me? I thought He was Jewish?

Biker

Great Scot! You're right.

Does this mean all Christians are really Jews?


But seriously, Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful, and they have a lot of problems in the history of the church, but I still think they are Christian.

Catholics, I still think they are Christian.

I think they are if they are depending upon and exhibiting faith in what Jesus did for them, as an individual, as opposed to what the Catholic church does for them. So, in that way I think you can be Christian, by faith in Jesus, not membership in a particular group.
It is true for, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, whatever. Being this or that is not the issue. It is your personal faith, and your personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. So, yes a Catholic can be a Christian, and a Christian can be a Catholic.

Does this mean that all Christians are really Jews?

Yes, grafted in Jews. The blessings of Abraham are available to Christians by faith. It has always been according to faith. Was Abraham made righteous by circumcision, or by faith? It has always been by faith. Looking forward it was faith in what God was going to do through the promised one, and looking back it is faith in what was done by the promised one, the one is Jesus Hamachiach.

Catholics may have some views that Protestants find distasteful,

If you will look very closely in the New Testament, it is amazingly silent on how to corporately worship God. It is left to unique, corporate local expression, in style and how it should look.
When all is said and done, there is universal agreement on Jesus Christ. No matter the group name.

Biker

Biker, I didn't say the things you quoted; check your references.

-Mel-

Mel,
Sorry, your right.
OK everybody, in this post substitute Mic for Mel.

Biker

[MagusYanam]

I think they are if they are depending upon and exhibiting faith in what Jesus did for them, as an individual, as opposed to what the Catholic church does for them. So, in that way I think you can be Christian, by faith in Jesus, not membership in a particular group.
It is true for, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, whatever. Being this or that is not the issue. It is your personal faith, and your personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. So, yes a Catholic can be a Christian, and a Christian can be a Catholic.

Personally, I think the Catholics are wrong for placing too much trust in an earthly hierarchy and then claiming that it is divine and infallible. However, many Protestants have the reverse problem - they believe that faith is inherently individual, and tend to overemphasise a person's own relationship with Christ, that it makes or breaks them as Christians.

But Protestants do tend to overlook the multiple places in Scripture where we are called to be a part of the body of Jesus Christ - the Church (with a capital 'c'), a community of belief, in which everyone contributes their individual talents and individual thoughts and concerns to the benefit of the group. I think the depth of Christians' faith is the depth of their willing obedience to each other and to God (not submission to a hierarchy), and that seems a value that to me manifests itself most obviously in the Anabaptist communities. Many other Protestant denominations seem to have underemphasised and thus lost that sense of discipline, and Catholics somewhere to have altered and misplaced it.