Jesus is Lord?

[man]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

[liamconnor]

[Replying to onewithhim]

Nope.


They haven't.

People who have a Bible and maybe a English friendly lexicon who haven't read how Jewish/Christian exegesis works have done what I might do with an English translation of a french work with a english-french friendly lexicon.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 78 by liamconnor]

Whew! Your lengthy long-winded sermon has points in it that have been taken apart on this board more than once. Hebrews 1:8 has been explained ad nauseum, as has the "Alpha & Omega" of Revelation. Neither of those references shows that Jesus is God, if we closely examine them. I don't have the energy to keep repeating myself. Can you just do some back-reading.....do some catching up?


I'm pooped. I've rebuffed your arguments (given by others) many times before.

Give me the exact link of your rebuff and I will address it.


Just a note: the kind of rhetoric you use (I'm pooped) is often interpreted as a desperate alternative to an argument, at least on this site. It is almost like a "Oh dang, I don't know what else to say".

In other words, it has the opposite effect you were aiming at.


Also, I am willing to debate you one on one on any of these points. There is a way to do that on this forum

[Monta]

[Replying to post 80 by man]

"You said God's government will welcome everyone who accepts Jehovah as the one true God. "

This is foreign to me, where does it say that?

[man]

[Replying to post 80 by man]

"You said God's government will welcome everyone who accepts Jehovah as the one true God. "

This is foreign to me, where does it say that?

onewithhim wrote it.

[JLB32168]

I think that when most people use/see it they’re making a claim that Christ is the Boss (of all things.) Theologically speaking, the proper name of the Judeo-Christian deity is rendered Kyrios in the Greek OT – Kyrie if one is speaking to the deity. Paul’s usage of “Lord/Kyrios� with Christ pretty much dictates that Paul thought Christ was the deity.

[onewithhim]

Jesus is Lord!

I have seen this on bumper stickers, TV and the internet, but I'm not quite sure what it means.

It seems to be saying that Jesus and the God are the same thing, is this correct?

I think the way most modern bumper-sticker Christians mean it is that "Jesus is God".

But that is not the original meaning of the expression. To Paul, it meant "Jesus is master" our best authority for understanding things Divine and the mediator for access to the Divine.

In the OT/Hebrew Bible "LORD" always meant YHVH, Lord meant Adonai ( "my Lord, referring to YHVH)

Only in the NT does the lower case "Lord" refer to Jesus.

And even in the NT YHWH has been obliterated. Where God's personal name was included in old manuscripts, it is deleted in modern translations. So sometimes where it says "Lord" it might be referring to YHWH. (See Acts 2:34 where Jehovah is definitely referred to.) It's hard to tell, and that is thanks to men through the centuries altering the texts to irradicate God's name.

[/i]

That is sad. I do like and respect the way the NWT has restored some of the NT references to YHVH, when it is clear that OT Scripture is being quoted, and in certain other cases.

What may be encouraging is that even outside of the JW organization, some are rediscovering the importance of the Divine name. Some Evangelicals refer to "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" and an Evangelical couple Peter and Linda-Miller Russo have published "Proclaim His Holy Name" , and also the "Proclaim His Holy Name Bible" which is based on the KJV, but with all the "LORD"s restored to "Yehovah".

I recommend the book and their version of the Bible.

Also, Keith E Johnson's "His Hallowed Name Revealed Again". I don't think he is either a JW or an Evangelical, but this book demonstrates he really understands the importance of The Name as well. Highly recommended.

Awesome! I will look for those books and the "Holy Name Bible." I have The Divine Name King James Bible by Divine Name Publishers, which restores the name in all 6,972 places it occurs in the O.T. and includes it within parentheses where it should be in the N.T.

It's really great that more people are recognizing God's name. Soon the whole planet "will have to know that I am Jehovah" (Ezekiel 38:23). I long for that day.

You long for that day? Why what happens?

The culmination of all of Bible prophecy. The very theme of the Bible is God's own government that will rule over the earth. Jesus focused on that government and taught us to pray for it.

"Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." (Matt.6:9,10, NASB)

"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and...it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever." (Daniel 2:44)

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders;...There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace." (Isaiah 9:6,7)

"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection....They will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:6)

Do you think God's own government that will rule over the earth is going to have a problem with Jewish people, Muslim people, gay people, blasphemers and atheists?

God's government will welcome everyone who accepts Jehovah as the one true God and agrees that he has the right to rule. They will also accept the provision for salvation that Jesus made available for everyone.

Psalm 15 gives us a good idea of the kind of people Jehovah will have in his new world:

1 "O LORD [YHWH], who may abide in Your tent?
Who may dwell on Your holy hill?
2 He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness,
And speaks truth in his heart.
3 He does not slander with his tongue,
Nor does evil to his neighbor,
Nor takes up a reproach against his friend;
4 In whose eyes a reprobate is despised,
But who honors those who fear the LORD [YHWH];
He swears to his own hurt and does not change;
5 He does not put out his money at interest,
Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent.
He who does these things will never be shaken." (NASB)

You said God's government will welcome everyone who accepts Jehovah as the one true God.

What happens to the people like myself who will utterly refuse to accept Jehovah as the one true God?

Will they be punished?

I think we may have gone over this before. The scripture says that God welcomes everyone "who speaks truth in his heart." That would be truth as God sees it....not necessarily truth as WE think it should be. So if anyone respects what the Bible says and follows its laws and principles, he will be welcome. That includes, of course, loving Jehovah with one's whole heart, mind and strength (Mark 12:30; Deuteronomy 6:5).

What happens to people who utterly refuse? I think you can figure it out. You know, people such as that would surely be very unhappy living in Paradise under the rulership of Jehovah & Jesus. Why put them through misery? It would be more merciful to let them "go to sleep" forever.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 78 by liamconnor]

Whew! Your lengthy long-winded sermon has points in it that have been taken apart on this board more than once. Hebrews 1:8 has been explained ad nauseum, as has the "Alpha & Omega" of Revelation. Neither of those references shows that Jesus is God, if we closely examine them. I don't have the energy to keep repeating myself. Can you just do some back-reading.....do some catching up?


I'm pooped. I've rebuffed your arguments (given by others) many times before.

Give me the exact link of your rebuff and I will address it.


Just a note: the kind of rhetoric you use (I'm pooped) is often interpreted as a desperate alternative to an argument, at least on this site. It is almost like a "Oh dang, I don't know what else to say".

In other words, it has the opposite effect you were aiming at.


Also, I am willing to debate you one on one on any of these points. There is a way to do that on this forum

I'm just willing to admit that, since I have argued your points so many times in the past, I am FRAIL enough to lie down and rest. I'm not well, having been in the hospital twice within 9 months for cancer and Lyme Disease, and battling with you (who have no intention of conceding that I have any good points) is a sword-fight I can't do right now. I don't think you want to really discuss with me....you want to beat me down, and I don't really deserve to be attacked. My emotions and body can't bear up under the hate. I know that I have excellent arguments, but you have no intention of considering my pov. I could say ALOT, but you aren't looking for answers, are you? I'll spend my energy, little as it is, on people who ARE interested in Scriptural answers.

[onewithhim]

I think that when most people use/see it they’re making a claim that Christ is the Boss (of all things.) Theologically speaking, the proper name of the Judeo-Christian deity is rendered Kyrios in the Greek OT – Kyrie if one is speaking to the deity. Paul’s usage of “Lord/Kyrios� with Christ pretty much dictates that Paul thought Christ was the deity.

No. "Kyrios" was used much later by translators or copyists rendering the early manuscripts into meanings that were not necessarily in the minds of Paul and the other disciples. They changed the word that was originally there to the generic "Kyrios" to further their religion's bias.

[man]

[Replying to post 86 by onewithhim]

People such as that would surely be very unhappy living in paradise?

Do you honestly think that makes any sense at all?

Anybody and everybody would be very happy to live in paradise.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 86 by onewithhim]

People such as that would surely be very unhappy living in paradise?

Do you honestly think that makes any sense at all?

Anybody and everybody would be very happy to live in paradise.

No, they would not. I've had discussions with people who called Paradise a farmer's cow pasture and they had no desire to live there. Go figure.