What really happened in the garden of Eden.

[mickiel]

One of the most distorted events in human history, is the events in Eden and what really happened there. The common perception is that God created Adam and Eve, trained them and taught them and gave them his Holy Spirit: they then had to face satan, as the devil sneeked into Eden and totally messed up the heads of Adam and Eve and thus they failed some kind of test from God, and were thrown out of the garden. And this is erroneously called " The Fall."

I disagree with so much of these religious assumptions. First, there is absolutely no evidence that God gave Adam and Eve his Spirit, or that he prepared them for this " Contest" with satan. The young couple were left totally defenseless and they had absolutely no chance whatsoever against the serpent. The serpent did not sneak into the garden, he could only gain access from God himself, so God planned the event.

In Gen. 1:27, God gives Adam and Eve " Consciousness", which is what " The Image of God " means. The image of God is not anything physical. In Gen. 2:16 God commands that the couple not eat of a tree he created that contained the knowledge of Good and Evil", from that we can know that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of either good or evil, to this point. Now in Gen. 3:1 we can see that the serpent , or satan, was created by God, because he was MORE subtil, MORE deceptive than any OTHER beast THAT GOD HAD MADE! So God MADE him that way.

Then we now have satan inside of the garden of Eden ,we MUST assume that God planned on him being there. So satan was " More", in other words, more powerful than any other creation on earth. Now we have in verse 1, satan begins his deception. He goes directly to Eve, Adam stands by and does nothing, because he did not know anythingelse to do. The serpent does his thing, the young couple does what God commanded them not to do. And God knew this would happen, and God did absolutely nothing to help them, and that must be remembered and understood.

In Gen. 3:7 it clearly states that " The EYES of both of them were OPENED!" This does not mean they were physically blind before this seduction, it means they were SPIRITUALLY blind!! They did NOT have the Spirit of God or any spiritual training. They were CLOSED before this happened; they could NOT see before this event, they were spiritually BLIND!

What do you think will happen when God sends the most seductive, subtle, powerful being on earth to face a spiritually blind couple? Its academic, but totally misunderstood by religion.

[Yahu]

RESPONSE: Actually nothing happened. The Garden of Eden story is fiction. The first seven books of the Old Testament were written about 800 BC to 500 BC and are a fictional story about the founding of the Jewish people. Most of the world's religions have foundational folklore of how they came to be.

Not in the TD&D subforum. The scripture is to be taken as authoritative to post here. Unless you can prove your position by the scriptures your comments are irrelevant.

I did not know that about this sub forum.

Then I suggest you actually read the rules for this area.

The purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority. Responses to topics with "but first you have to prove that the Bible is true" is not allowed here.

In this subforum the canon of the Bible is considered authoritative with respect to the historical consensus of the canon's content.

So for debate in this subform, the scriptural interpretation is to be debated but scripture is considered as FACTUAL. That isn't open for debate. There are other areas for people to ridicule or openly oppose the biblical accounts as nonsense. That isn't allowed here and is a direct violation of the rules.

So unless a position is based on scriptural backing, it has no place in debate in this subforum.

[Elijah John]

So for debate in this subform, the scriptural interpretation is to be debated but scripture is considered as FACTUAL. That isn't open for debate. There are other areas for people to ridicule or openly oppose the biblical accounts as nonsense. That isn't allowed here and is a direct violation of the rules.

So unless a position is based on scriptural backing, it has no place in debate in this subforum.

Moderator Clarification

In this TD&D forum, the Bible is considered authoritative but not necessarily infallible. Bible interpretation is fair game in this forum, but outright dismissal or ridicule of the Bible is out of line on this particular forum.

Rules
C&A Guidelines


______________

Moderator clarifications do not count as a strike against any posters. They serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received and/or are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels a clarification of the rules is required.

[mickiel]

I am thankful to this forum for that.

[Talishi]

In Gen. 3:7 it clearly states that " The EYES of both of them were OPENED!" This does not mean they were physically blind before this seduction, it means they were SPIRITUALLY blind!! They did NOT have the Spirit of God or any spiritual training. They were CLOSED before this happened; they could NOT see before this event, they were spiritually BLIND!

So why did God punish them for moving out of a state of spiritual blindness? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

[mickiel]

In Gen. 3:7 it clearly states that " The EYES of both of them were OPENED!" This does not mean they were physically blind before this seduction, it means they were SPIRITUALLY blind!! They did NOT have the Spirit of God or any spiritual training. They were CLOSED before this happened; they could NOT see before this event, they were spiritually BLIND!

So why did God punish them for moving out of a state of spiritual blindness? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

In my biblical view ,they were not punished? God just changed their address. Adam lived 930 years, I assume Eve lived at least as long. There is no biblical proof that they lived some kind of punished life.

Explain what you think this so called " Punishment was?"

[Talishi]

In my biblical view ,they were not punished? God just changed their address. Adam lived 930 years, I assume Eve lived at least as long. There is no biblical proof that they lived some kind of punished life. Explain what you think this so called " Punishment was?"

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

[mickiel]

In my biblical view ,they were not punished? God just changed their address. Adam lived 930 years, I assume Eve lived at least as long. There is no biblical proof that they lived some kind of punished life. Explain what you think this so called " Punishment was?"

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Those are not punishments ,more like generational curses in my view. Curses God wanted on humanity ; conditions on humanity. Pain during child birth ,female submission to males , those are not punishments , they are living conditions that we can bear.