I believe psychedelics give one a glimpse into the spiritual realm, for lack of a better term, although there are other ways to reach it, such as meditation.
Dimethyltryptamine is endogenous, and is reported to be the cause of near death experiences, alien encounters, and possibly the afterlife. It is produced within us all the time, and larger amounts are made during the REM cycle of our sleep, and stressful situations, i.e. death.
DMT:The Spirit Molecule & Inner Paths to Outer Space by Rick Strassman, M.D.
Rick Strassman also stated in an interview that while trying to become a Buddhist monk, he found out that about 80-90% of the monks he asked admitted that they used LSD and that it was the most influential experience in them deciding to become and devote their life to being a Buddhist monk.
Mushrooms have been used for thousands of years. Terence McKenna's Stoned Ape theory addresses the possibility of magic mushrooms initiating the creation of language and culture. In 100,000 years BC, Cubensis mushrooms could finally grow due to the change in climate which caused the rainforest to recede. Monkeys left the forest, and ate mushrooms and bugs found on animal dung. Mushrooms are reported to increase visual acuity, promote community bonding, and were the first spiritual experience for these primates.
Food for The Gods by Terence McKenna
I have also read a lot about mushrooms and their presence in the bible. Christ in Sumerian apparently means "a mushroom covered in gods semen". Early people understood how seeds worked, but not spores, as they were too small. Mushrooms would grow hours after the rain, from nothing visible, so they'd attribute it to being god's semen that fall from the sky. The people of these times were also very into fertility, animal fertility for food and human fertility for other obvious reasons. They were very curious about mushrooms because of their penis/vagina like appearance and mysterious/unknown growth after rainfall.
John Allegro shows how the Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the etymology of various Mesopotamian languages all have mushroom and sexual puns/terms interwoven. This is due to the prominence in the pre-Christian world of mushroom and fertility cults. Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, the languages of the Bible, all ultimately derive from ancient Sumerian, where many original meanings had been long lost. For instance, the gods of the Greeks and Hebrews, Zeus and Yahweh (Jehovah) have names derived from Sumerian words meaning “seed of life� and “juice of fecundity.� The name Herod, as in King Herod, “ardeola� in Latin, serves as a wordplay on the Semitic “ardilia� which means “mushroom.� The name Jesus, in Hebrew “yehoshiia� comes from the Sumerian “JA U ShiJ A� which means “semen which saves, restores, heals.� This is comparable to the fertility god Dionysus, whose cult emblem was an erect phallus, and whose Sumerian name “IA-U-Nu-ShUSh� also means “semen, seed that saves.�
The Sacred Mushroom by John Allegra
Interesting reads/videos
http://shroomn8r.tripod.com/legendsoftheshroom/id7.html
Are psychedelics spirituality? Can all mystical experiences be explained by psychedelic drugs?
Christians used to burn people for being witches, it is now known that some of these "witches" were poor people, that had no where to live, besides caves. These caves were full of intoxicating fumes thats caused them to hallucinate. Other times, girls accused of witchcraft simply ate shrooms they found in the forest. When they were found dancing naked, people claimed they were witches. Are there not many more cases like this?
Are psychedelics spirituality?
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Athiest-420
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Post #13
[Replying to post 11 by dio9]
It all depends on how you define the term "mystic".
For example: Are you saying that mystical experiences are similar to hallucinations of some sort?
dio9 wrote:
I am of the opinion psychedelics give the mystic experience without the discipline of meditative practices. Does that make sense?
It all depends on how you define the term "mystic".
For example: Are you saying that mystical experiences are similar to hallucinations of some sort?
Post #14
[Replying to post 13 by Blastcat]
Back in the days of LSD and psychedelic research, there were some serious studies done, one by Pahnke on seminary students, that showed definite parallels exist between psychedelic experiences at a Good Friday service (Pahnke) and descriptions of ecstatic experiences as described in the Christian mystical literature.
No, I don't think this means mystical experiences are all hallucinations., It think it means psychedelics can open up new doorways of spiritual or mystical experiences.
Many nonwestern cultures use various forms of psychedelic drugs as part of their religion.
Back in the days of LSD and psychedelic research, there were some serious studies done, one by Pahnke on seminary students, that showed definite parallels exist between psychedelic experiences at a Good Friday service (Pahnke) and descriptions of ecstatic experiences as described in the Christian mystical literature.
No, I don't think this means mystical experiences are all hallucinations., It think it means psychedelics can open up new doorways of spiritual or mystical experiences.
Many nonwestern cultures use various forms of psychedelic drugs as part of their religion.
Post #16
[Replying to post 14 by hoghead1]
I agree that people have all kinds of experiences they can describe as religious, mystical and so on. I have those myself. I don't attach these experiences with the supernatural labels that other people might. I consider my experiences to be perfectly natural.
If I take a drug, I'm not really surprised that it has an effect.
Could you explain which ones are and which ones aren't?
Are the hallucinogenic drug induced mystical experiences all hallucinations?
Again, I am not quite sure what you mean by "spiritual or mystical experiences".
I don't believe in the spirit world, or know what YOU mean by "spirit", and if by "mystical" you mean "mysterious", then we agree. I can fully agree that when I take a hallucinogenic drug, that I would suffer from hallucinations. That's what these drugs do.
Could you define the terms "spirit" and "mystical experience" and "hallucination"?
I think I might not quite know exactly what you mean.
They take drugs to induce hallucinations that they then interpret according to their religion.
I don't have a religion, so if I were to ingest the same drugs I would feel the drug's effects and NOT attribute the experience to something else. The brain is very complex. We can mess up the signals quite easily. Some people do that kind of thing as a form of entertainment, too. Some people might even PRETEND to be religious IN ORDER to entertain themselves with "religious" drugs.
Can drugs be "entertaining"?.. I'd say yes, to some.
Can drugs be associated with religions? .. I'd say yes, to some.
Does LSD or any other hallucinogenic prove the spirit world or any religion?
That would have to be determined. I don't think so.
Let's study that.
Well, I do prefer serious studies as opposed to the jokey ones.hoghead1 wrote:
Back in the days of LSD and psychedelic research, there were some serious studies done, one by Pahnke on seminary students, that showed definite parallels exist between psychedelic experiences at a Good Friday service (Pahnke) and descriptions of ecstatic experiences as described in the Christian mystical literature.
I agree that people have all kinds of experiences they can describe as religious, mystical and so on. I have those myself. I don't attach these experiences with the supernatural labels that other people might. I consider my experiences to be perfectly natural.
If I take a drug, I'm not really surprised that it has an effect.
So, you don't agree that all mystical experiences are hallucinations.hoghead1 wrote:
No, I don't think this means mystical experiences are all hallucinations., It think it means psychedelics can open up new doorways of spiritual or mystical experiences.
Could you explain which ones are and which ones aren't?
Are the hallucinogenic drug induced mystical experiences all hallucinations?
Again, I am not quite sure what you mean by "spiritual or mystical experiences".
I don't believe in the spirit world, or know what YOU mean by "spirit", and if by "mystical" you mean "mysterious", then we agree. I can fully agree that when I take a hallucinogenic drug, that I would suffer from hallucinations. That's what these drugs do.
Could you define the terms "spirit" and "mystical experience" and "hallucination"?
I think I might not quite know exactly what you mean.
Yes, many do. Even some North and South American cultures do.hoghead1 wrote:
Many nonwestern cultures use various forms of psychedelic drugs as part of their religion.
They take drugs to induce hallucinations that they then interpret according to their religion.
I don't have a religion, so if I were to ingest the same drugs I would feel the drug's effects and NOT attribute the experience to something else. The brain is very complex. We can mess up the signals quite easily. Some people do that kind of thing as a form of entertainment, too. Some people might even PRETEND to be religious IN ORDER to entertain themselves with "religious" drugs.
Can drugs be "entertaining"?.. I'd say yes, to some.
Can drugs be associated with religions? .. I'd say yes, to some.
Does LSD or any other hallucinogenic prove the spirit world or any religion?
That would have to be determined. I don't think so.
Let's study that.
Post #17
[Replying to post 15 by dio9]
[center]Were getting a little bit vague for my taste.[/center]
I can interpret it to mean too many things:
Is the mystic experience the feeling of complete presence in reality, or it is an actual complete presence in reality?
Do you see the difference?
You describe the mystical experience one way.
I don't have a quarrel with your definition.
But are you expressing an opinion about the experience or are you describing a fact about the experience?
Because I can accept that when you are having a "mystical experience" that you FEEL ( or somehow think ) that you are in a complete presence in reality.
Even without being in a mystical experience, I really do feel already completely in the presence of reality. ... Or maybe it means that I'm ALWAYS having a mystical experience?
If you would elaborate what you mean by "the mystic experience is complete presence in reality", it could be helpful.
Right now, I can interpret that statement too many ways.
[center]Were getting a little bit vague for my taste.[/center]
That statement is too ambiguous for me.
I can interpret it to mean too many things:
Is the mystic experience the feeling of complete presence in reality, or it is an actual complete presence in reality?
Do you see the difference?
You describe the mystical experience one way.
I don't have a quarrel with your definition.
But are you expressing an opinion about the experience or are you describing a fact about the experience?
Because I can accept that when you are having a "mystical experience" that you FEEL ( or somehow think ) that you are in a complete presence in reality.
Even without being in a mystical experience, I really do feel already completely in the presence of reality. ... Or maybe it means that I'm ALWAYS having a mystical experience?
If you would elaborate what you mean by "the mystic experience is complete presence in reality", it could be helpful.
Right now, I can interpret that statement too many ways.
Re: Are psychedelics spirituality?
Post #18Absolutely not. Let me guess, the Buddhists you have known have all been Americans willing to experiment with anything and Buddhism is cool. *rolls eyes* I would say it is the difference between dark and light--the body in Christianity is a sacred place, it is our temple wherein the Holy Spirit resides.Athiest-420 wrote: I believe psychedelics give one a glimpse into the spiritual realm, for lack of a better term, although there are other ways to reach it, such as meditation.
Dimethyltryptamine is endogenous, and is reported to be the cause of near death experiences, alien encounters, and possibly the afterlife. It is produced within us all the time, and larger amounts are made during the REM cycle of our sleep, and stressful situations, i.e. death.
DMT:The Spirit Molecule & Inner Paths to Outer Space by Rick Strassman, M.D.
Rick Strassman also stated in an interview that while trying to become a Buddhist monk, he found out that about 80-90% of the monks he asked admitted that they used LSD and that it was the most influential experience in them deciding to become and devote their life to being a Buddhist monk.
Mushrooms have been used for thousands of years. Terence McKenna's Stoned Ape theory addresses the possibility of magic mushrooms initiating the creation of language and culture. In 100,000 years BC, Cubensis mushrooms could finally grow due to the change in climate which caused the rainforest to recede. Monkeys left the forest, and ate mushrooms and bugs found on animal dung. Mushrooms are reported to increase visual acuity, promote community bonding, and were the first spiritual experience for these primates.
Food for The Gods by Terence McKenna
I have also read a lot about mushrooms and their presence in the bible. Christ in Sumerian apparently means "a mushroom covered in gods semen". Early people understood how seeds worked, but not spores, as they were too small. Mushrooms would grow hours after the rain, from nothing visible, so they'd attribute it to being god's semen that fall from the sky. The people of these times were also very into fertility, animal fertility for food and human fertility for other obvious reasons. They were very curious about mushrooms because of their penis/vagina like appearance and mysterious/unknown growth after rainfall.
John Allegro shows how the Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the etymology of various Mesopotamian languages all have mushroom and sexual puns/terms interwoven. This is due to the prominence in the pre-Christian world of mushroom and fertility cults. Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, the languages of the Bible, all ultimately derive from ancient Sumerian, where many original meanings had been long lost. For instance, the gods of the Greeks and Hebrews, Zeus and Yahweh (Jehovah) have names derived from Sumerian words meaning “seed of life� and “juice of fecundity.� The name Herod, as in King Herod, “ardeola� in Latin, serves as a wordplay on the Semitic “ardilia� which means “mushroom.� The name Jesus, in Hebrew “yehoshiia� comes from the Sumerian “JA U ShiJ A� which means “semen which saves, restores, heals.� This is comparable to the fertility god Dionysus, whose cult emblem was an erect phallus, and whose Sumerian name “IA-U-Nu-ShUSh� also means “semen, seed that saves.�
The Sacred Mushroom by John Allegra
Interesting reads/videos
http://shroomn8r.tripod.com/legendsoftheshroom/id7.html
Are psychedelics spirituality? Can all mystical experiences be explained by psychedelic drugs?
Christians used to burn people for being witches, it is now known that some of these "witches" were poor people, that had no where to live, besides caves. These caves were full of intoxicating fumes thats caused them to hallucinate. Other times, girls accused of witchcraft simply ate shrooms they found in the forest. When they were found dancing naked, people claimed they were witches. Are there not many more cases like this?
Of course, there have always been drugs. The common drugs of biblical times have negative connotations although sometimes given to the sick and dying just as opium was used to relieve pain among the wounded in the Revolutionary war--in other words, historically opium has been a pain killer. Here is a good, long, repetitive page with biblical quotes on wormwood and gall as is mentioned during the crucifixion and quite a number of passages in the Old Testament. Jesus refused gall and vinegar on the cross shortly before he died. False prophets used these drugs and scripture warns against them. The "fruit of idolatry", "venom of serpents", etc.
http://www.biblenews1.com/define/gall.htm
Post #19
I am describing a fact. You say you must be always having a mystical experience lucky you. I can't describe my mystical experience for you , 'cause its mine. You have your own mystical experience. I don't doubt you're having them.Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 15 by dio9]
[center]Were getting a little bit vague for my taste.[/center]
That statement is too ambiguous for me.
I can interpret it to mean too many things:
Is the mystic experience the feeling of complete presence in reality, or it is an actual complete presence in reality?
Do you see the difference?
You describe the mystical experience one way.
I don't have a quarrel with your definition.
But are you expressing an opinion about the experience or are you describing a fact about the experience?
Because I can accept that when you are having a "mystical experience" that you FEEL ( or somehow think ) that you are in a complete presence in reality.
Even without being in a mystical experience, I really do feel already completely in the presence of reality. ... Or maybe it means that I'm ALWAYS having a mystical experience?
If you would elaborate what you mean by "the mystic experience is complete presence in reality", it could be helpful.
Right now, I can interpret that statement too many ways.
For the record, The classic mystical experience is oneness with all things internal and external.
Post #20
[Replying to post 16 by Blastcat]
Christian mystical literature centers upon what some call an "oceanic feeling of oneness" with God and also with the world. That means there are no hard-and-fast dividing lines between yourself, God, and the universe. God and the universe are literally flowing in you, and you in God and all the rest. The mystics experience God as omnipresent and themselves as ontologically fused to God, part of the very being of God. In the metaoysics of modern-day process theologians and philosophers, reality is understood as relational, relativistic. Everything is related to everything else. We are not all separate substances, leading lives encapsulated within ourselves. We are all incarnate, resent in one another. Hence, I believe that process provides a coherent metaphysical explanation for such mystical experiences.
Christian mystical literature centers upon what some call an "oceanic feeling of oneness" with God and also with the world. That means there are no hard-and-fast dividing lines between yourself, God, and the universe. God and the universe are literally flowing in you, and you in God and all the rest. The mystics experience God as omnipresent and themselves as ontologically fused to God, part of the very being of God. In the metaoysics of modern-day process theologians and philosophers, reality is understood as relational, relativistic. Everything is related to everything else. We are not all separate substances, leading lives encapsulated within ourselves. We are all incarnate, resent in one another. Hence, I believe that process provides a coherent metaphysical explanation for such mystical experiences.
