Will babies who have died automatically be saved?

[Celsus]

Will babies who have died automatically be saved, go to Heaven and get eternal life?

[SpiritQuickens]

So Christians actually don't have a common view/doctrine on this?

Lookup up "Limbo of Infants" and while you're at it, baptism of desire and baptism of blood.

The Roman Catholic church has a number of ways to satisfy grieving parents and lovers when they know that whomever the knew has died without being in a state of grace.

But that's only the Catholics and it's not based on the Bible, right?

Quite right. I believe it's rather uniformly decided that the Bible has nothing to say on the matter. There's also some controversy over those born and died before Christ. They're in the same situation, I believe.

You can get views from other prominent Christian sects with a quick search or two.

Romans 2:12 doesn't seem to bode well for those who live(d) outside of the scope of the Gospel. "For all who have sinned without the law will perish without the law..."

[myth-one.com]

Will babies who have died automatically be saved, go to Heaven and get eternal life?

No. The belief is they go to heaven because they died sinless. But this path to heaven is now closed! The two testaments of the Bible represent wills or covenants between God and man. Under the first testament, the only path to eternal life was to never sin, because the wages of sin is death. However, there was a fault in the first testament in that all mankind sinned! Therefore, no one could gain eternal life under that first testament. Since the first covenant contained faults, God created a second, or New Testament:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

The New Testament requirement for gaining eternal life ia a belief in Jesus Christ and one's Savior from sin. Upon creating a New Testament, the first covenant became the Old Testament:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

The New Testament covenant became effective and the Old Testament covenant vanished away when Jesus Christ, the testator, died on the cross:

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:16-17)

Once the New Testament became active, the previous testament became obsolete. No one can now gain eternal life by remaining sinless as required under the Old Testament. This includes infants and children! The only path to salvation presently is through a belief in Jesus Christ under terms of the New Testament covenant, and infants do not believe in Jesus Christ!

[kayky]

So--mythone--do you believe infants and children go to hell when they die?

[myth-one.com]

So--mythone--do you believe infants and children go to hell when they die?

Of course not. To mankind they are simply dead. To God, they are resting in their graves awaiting their resurrection as humans at the second resurrection.

The scriptures state the gospel will be preached to those that are now dead! From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

The dead cannot be preached to while dead, as the dead know absolutely nothing:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Those that are "now dead" can only be preached to after regaining consciousness. These dead nonbelievers have known nothing since their first human death. They will regain consciousness upon being resurrected from the dead as humans once again at the second resurrection. At that time, they will be taught the good news of the scriptures and may accept Jesus as their Savior and gain everlasting spiritual life with God at that time! It will be the first opportunity for many of them, and for all of the infants!

[AIEC]

If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.

Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?

Read all of Romans chapter 9, this may shed some light on "celsus'" quote.

[OnceConvinced]

If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.

Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?

Haven't you heard about the invisible man in the sky?

Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!

For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

See? God chooses whom he chooses arbitrarily before they are born.

Which then means that Christ's death on the cross was unnecessary.

[elle]

Those that are "now dead" can only be preached to after regaining consciousness. These dead nonbelievers have known nothing since their first human death. They will regain consciousness upon being resurrected from the dead as humans once again at the second resurrection. At that time, they will be taught the good news of the scriptures and may accept Jesus as their Savior and gain everlasting spiritual life with God at that time! It will be the first opportunity for many of them, and for all of the infants!

You are, of course, welcome to your beliefs and I have no real desire at this point to note the contradictions that seem obvious to me in the verses you quoted, but what I'm really interested in is this: can you please explain how you think this will work? I do not think it makes sense to expect dead infants to be raised from the dead and then accept Christ and go to heaven. From personal experience with the human species, it seems apparent that infants and young children do not have the capacity to make that type of decision.

[myth-one.com]

Those that are "now dead" can only be preached to after regaining consciousness. These dead nonbelievers have known nothing since their first human death. They will regain consciousness upon being resurrected from the dead as humans once again at the second resurrection. At that time, they will be taught the good news of the scriptures and may accept Jesus as their Savior and gain everlasting spiritual life with God at that time! It will be the first opportunity for many of them, and for all of the infants!

You are, of course, welcome to your beliefs

I simply believe what the scriptures state -- and quoted supporting scriptures.

I have no real desire at this point to note the contradictions that seem obvious to me in the verses you quoted

Why is this a bad time for you? Here are the verses, which do you disagree with?

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:16-17)

But what I'm really interested in is this: can you please explain how you think this will work? I do not think it makes sense to expect dead infants to be raised from the dead and then accept Christ and go to heaven. From personal experience with the human species, it seems apparent that infants and young children do not have the capacity to make that type of decision.

They will be resurrected from the dead as humans. They will grow to maturity after being resurrected, taught the true gospel message, and make their decision at that time.

[elle]

Those that are "now dead" can only be preached to after regaining consciousness. These dead nonbelievers have known nothing since their first human death. They will regain consciousness upon being resurrected from the dead as humans once again at the second resurrection. At that time, they will be taught the good news of the scriptures and may accept Jesus as their Savior and gain everlasting spiritual life with God at that time! It will be the first opportunity for many of them, and for all of the infants!

You are, of course, welcome to your beliefs

I simply believe what the scriptures state -- and quoted supporting scriptures.

No you believe your interpretation of what the scriptures state. There are as many interpretations or beliefs about what bible verses say as there are denominations and sects, which is quite a few.

I have no real desire at this point to note the contradictions that seem obvious to me in the verses you quoted

Why is this a bad time for you? Here are the verses, which do you disagree with?

I didn't feel like overstating the obvious, but I will go through what you've posted here:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

These verses do not support your argument from what I understand. I do not see anything here that says babies will be resurrected and preached to. They seem to say that everyone who is now living or is now dead has had the gospel preached to them.

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

I fail to see how these verses are relevant at all to the discussion of infant salvation.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:16-17)

This verse is slightly more relevant as it refers to life and death but again I do not see how this supports an argument for or against infant salvation.

But what I'm really interested in is this: can you please explain how you think this will work? I do not think it makes sense to expect dead infants to be raised from the dead and then accept Christ and go to heaven. From personal experience with the human species, it seems apparent that infants and young children do not have the capacity to make that type of decision.

They will be resurrected from the dead as humans. They will grow to maturity after being resurrected, taught the true gospel message, and make their decision at that time.

I have yet to see the scriptural basis for this belief.

[myth-one.com]

No you believe your interpretation of what the scriptures state. There are as many interpretations or beliefs about what bible verses say as there are denominations and sects, which is quite a few.

From my experiences, there is no significant difference in the major theology of any of these numerous denominations. That common false theology is:

Mankind is born as an immortal soul living within a physical body. When the body dies, the soul lives on eternally in heaven or hell depending on whether or not that person believed in Jesus as their Savior. At the resurrection, our physical bodies arise and are reunited with our souls.

The above theology is supported nowhere in the Bible. I believe what the Bible states -- that believers gain everlasting life while nonbelievers perish.
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For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

I do not see anything here that says babies will be resurrected and preached to. They seem to say that everyone who is now living or is now dead has had the gospel preached to them.

You can read it that way, but what good does it do to preach to newborns?

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life... Deuteronomy 30:19)

Each person must make their own personal decision to believe or reject Jesus as their Savior:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

How do infants, those dying before Jesus even lived, the retarded, the billions who died having never heard the name Jesus, etc... ever learn about Jesus? They have to possess this knowledge in order to make their decision. If they did not learn it before their deaths, they must learn it after their resurrection as they know nothing while they are dead:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

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But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

I fail to see how these verses are relevant at all to the discussion of infant salvation.

Here's the relevance. Under the first or Old Testament covenant, the wages of sin is death. Sin was knowingly violating one of God's laws. Infants could not commit a sin until they understood the law:

For sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)

Under the Old Testament, one could therefore make a case that innocent infants inherited everlasting life as they never sinned. The wages of sin is death, but they never sinned.
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For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:16-17)

This verse is slightly more relevant as it refers to life and death but again I do not see how this supports an argument for or against infant salvation.

The New Testament covenant of believing in Jesus as one's Savior superseded the Old Testament requirement of never sinning. So the case for infants dying innocent of any sin would no longer gain them everlasting life. They must choose eternal life or eternal death.
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But what I'm really interested in is this: can you please explain how you think this will work? I do not think it makes sense to expect dead infants to be raised from the dead and then accept Christ and go to heaven. From personal experience with the human species, it seems apparent that infants and young children do not have the capacity to make that type of decision.

They will be resurrected from the dead as humans. They will grow to maturity after being resurrected, taught the true gospel message, and make their decision at that time.

I have yet to see the scriptural basis for this belief.

I could show it -- but it would be long. Most of it would be very similar to the following web page which discusses the fate of deceased infants and abortions: Today Is The Day Of Salvation