Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[gordsd]

[Replying to Blastcat]

I could not finish earlier because I had to go back to work. I am still on my phone so the punctuation is still going to suck, but I will get back to you later on my computer. For now I will just say that I wrote what I did because when we discuss something like what spiritual means it is difficult to bring The reader to the reality of what one means by spiritual. So it wearies me to try and explain what might be a reality to a
Some but not to others. You may half to take the journey to spirituality on your own . I will get back to you later.

[gordsd]

[Replying to gordsd]

See "

Atheist little book of spirituality" book from amazon.
I read it

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 81 by gordsd]




[center]Understanding what is meant by the word "Spiritual"
Part Eight: How should I know?[/center]

For now I will just say that I wrote what I did because when we discuss something like what spiritual means it is difficult to bring The reader to the reality of what one means by spiritual.

Yeah, I really did notice how much difficulty we seem to be having.

So it wearies me to try and explain what might be a reality to a
Some but not to others. You may half to take the journey to spirituality on your own . I will get back to you later.

Sorry to hear that you are so weary of explaining yourself.
But if you can't explain something, then you can't.

I can't ask for what you cannot provide.
It seems to me that you MAY or MAY NOT understand the word yourself. How would I know?

And FYI... I can't take a journey to somewhere if I have don't know where that somewhere is at. Sorry, but the category "Spiritual" might be completely empty of truth. How would I know?

That's my theme for today.. how would I know?
If you can't tell me, I can't.

And that, my friend is what I take from these back and forth discussions on what you mean by "spiritual". That's not MUCH, except that now, I have an exhortation to find out for myself !!!

Imagine a math teacher doing that kind of a thing.
Preposterous !!

If you are teacher, TEACH.
If you have any idea what you mean, EXPLAIN.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[gordsd]

[Replying to Blastcat]
I did explain it well enough already for most people. So buy the book I suggested above and we will use it for our text and we will discuss it if you really want to learn.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 84 by gordsd]




[center]Understanding what is meant by the word "Spiritual"
Part Nine: Buy the book.[/center]

I did explain it well enough already for most people. So buy the book I suggested above and we will use it for our text and we will discuss it if you really want to learn.

You might have noticed that I am not most people.

So, buy me a copy and we will use it for our text and we will discuss it, if you really want to teach.

[gordsd]

[Replying to Blastcat]

I am not buying you anything. If you really want to learn, you will be willing to invest in yourself. There is no reason for me to teach you anything except out of the goodness of my heart. You have already demonstrated that you are difficult. By the way, if you finally decide to invest in yourself, there is another book which I have read called "Spiritual Atheism" written by Steve Antinoff. He studied Zen Buddhism for fifteen years in Japan. He is a professor of religion at a university in Philadelphia. The book is also available at amazon.com. If you change your mind and want to discuss it together, let me know. You come across in your communications like this forum is just a place to play games with people's heads, and, if that is the case, your stay here will probably be short lived.

[Elijah John]

You have already demonstrated that you are difficult.

You come across in your communications like this forum is just a place to play games with people's heads, and, if that is the case, your stay here will probably be short lived.

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[catnip]

LAKE OF FIRE:

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: "This means the second death, the lake of fire." (Rev.20:14; 21:8) So it symbolizes the death from which no one is resurrected.

It is further evident that this lake of fire is symbolic from the context of references to it in Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. Death cannot, obviously, be hurled or burned. Moreover, the Devil who is an invisible spirit person, is thrown into the lake....and being a spirit he cannot be hurt by literal fire. (Rev.20:10; see also Exodus 3:2 where an angel is in a burning bush & it doesn't affect him.)


("Gehenna" and "the fire prepared for the Devil & his angels" are also symbolic. They mean basically the same thing as "the lake of fire.")

Your point of view is purely JW. I am not alone in believing that it is for purification, the burning up of the beast, the egotistical twin of the spiritual person. The ancients were in awe of the assayers fire--the burning up of impurities and the resulting fine metal that remains. There is a long history of this point of view in the region in that period of history.

How does literally burning up the Beast purify it? And do you believe the Beast is a literal monster that comes out of the literal sea?

Fire can certainly refer to purifying, but in more cases than not, it refers to total destruction.

No, the beast is the animal, the image (of the physical human body). You may like this: Those who worship the beast are worshiping a physical man as God. The Jews did not believe that a man could be God. You know that, of course.

No, fire does not refer to total destruction. You can't read the scriptures in an historical void. As I said, the symbol as it is used refers to the process of metallurgy which was profound to the people of that time and a cottage industry that all were familiar with unlike today. The slag is separated from the iron and cast aside.

It is total destruction of the "twin" (the elder shall be the servant of the younger), leaving the spirit which goes back to God who gave it. The reason that Satan and his angels come as light is due to the fact that all the creatures that God has created are animated by and given life by the spirit which God gave them and those who are "spiritual" can see this light. Thus Satan and his angels are to be cast into the lake of fire but there remains the purified and eternal spirit that God gave his creatures in their creation.
Remember that light is of God and God created it first and he separated the light from the darkness and this was before he created the sun and the moon.

[catnip]

[Replying to post 70 by catnip]

[center]
Where the Kingdom be at?
Part Five: .. Clarification and evidence demand completely ignored. Instead, more incomprehensible text.[/center]

As with the study of psychology, the evidence is encompassed by human experience and testimony.

It isn't of the intellect.

You seem to think that the study of psychology has nothing to do with the intellect. How very peculiar.

You didn't follow the train of thought. What you demand is impossible and yet even with the science of psychology, it is based on human experience and testimony (and that is from the definition of the word psychology). And I used the word "as" which is used in English as a comparison: the subject is not of the intellect, it is of human experience and testimony.

I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away.

--Rumi

What a very pretty poem.

Rumi seems to have given up on his brain.
Pity him.

If that is all you got from it, that is your loss.

I tried showing you that it isn't found only within a religion and you didn't like it. *shrugs*

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Your shrug doesn't explain anything, either.

I think I was sufficiently clear.

If I were speaking of psychology, it is a science and it does not rely on anything but the study of the mind and behavior--so I don't know what more you should need.

I can assure you that I have NO idea what you are talking about.

This does not prove that I did not express myself clearly. Atheists here often err in attempting to prove things qualitatively and quantitatively, but even the science of psychology depends on noting the behaviors and experiences of individuals.

You claim to be Taoist, then you should understand.

I understand Taoism the very peculiar and particular way that I understand it.
I don't know how YOU do, or what you might mean by that comment.

Basically, humility is a cornerstone. While there are various tints to the results from one spiritual discipline to another, they are all also quite similar. So, you should already understand what I have been saying. When I told you to check the documentary I AM you would find it very reflective of the truth behind Daoism. Very much indeed.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 89 by catnip]




[center]
Where the Kingdom be at?
Part Six: Expressing one's self clearly to the satisfaction of one's self.
[/center]

As with the study of psychology, the evidence is encompassed by human experience and testimony.

It isn't of the intellect.

You seem to think that the study of psychology has nothing to do with the intellect. How very peculiar.

You didn't follow the train of thought.

I agree.
I didn't follow the train of thought.
Too bad for me.

It's one of my goals.

What you demand is impossible and yet even with the science of psychology, it is based on human experience and testimony (and that is from the definition of the word psychology).

Now I quite forgot what my demand was. I would hate making impossible demands.
Could you remind me?

And I used the word "as" which is used in English as a comparison: the subject is not of the intellect, it is of human experience and testimony.

"As".....

This reminds me of the Clinton impeachment trial when one of the words being hard fought over was "the".

So, our misunderstand is rooted in how we don't agree on the meaning of the English word "as"? If I understood that word the same way that you did, I'd be a Christian, do you think?

I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away.

--Rumi

What a very pretty poem.

Rumi seems to have given up on his brain.
Pity him.

If that is all you got from it, that is your loss.

If you got more, then so much to your gain.
Enjoy the poetry all you like.

He's given up on his brain.. and maybe you have too.
Maybe that's why it all makes so much perfect sense to you.

But maybe you don't know this about me:

_______________

FOR THE RECORD:

I write poetry too.
When it comes to poetry, I have a bit of a clue
You might not like mine, but give it some time
It might just grow on you
_______________

I tried showing you that it isn't found only within a religion and you didn't like it. *shrugs*

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Your shrug doesn't explain anything, either.

I think I was sufficiently clear.

Good for you.
You understand yourself.
Blastcat say: "That's a good start".

I can assure you that I have NO idea what you are talking about.

This does not prove that I did not express myself clearly.

I agree.

Atheists here often err in attempting to prove things qualitatively and quantitatively, but even the science of psychology depends on noting the behaviors and experiences of individuals.

Yep.
Even so.

I don't know what your important point is.

Basically, humility is a cornerstone.

Oh, that's one of my humanistic principles.
I'm one of those, too.

While there are various tints to the results from one spiritual discipline to another, they are all also quite similar.

Yes, I have to agree with tautologies like that.

Similar things are similar.
Amazingly true.

So, you should already understand what I have been saying.

Maybe I should.
True, true, true, so true.

But i don't. also true, true, true.

Whatareyagonnado ?

When I told you to check the documentary I AM you would find it very reflective of the truth behind Daoism. Very much indeed.

Some people spell it with a "T", I do.
I do, I very much do.

( did you find that documentary yet? )