How are we to be like God?

[AdHoc]

If you can only use one word to describe a characteristic of God that we should follow as an example what word would you use?

And why do you choose that word?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 21 by Checkpoint]

I agreed with your post except what you said about mankind not being made perfect. God doesn't make something that isn't perfect.

"The Rock, perfect is his activity." (Deuteronomy 32:4)

Why would He create something imperfect? Just to watch humans struggle to become perfect? No, Adam and Eve were created perfect and they were supposed to live forever. They became imperfect and lost their lives because they disobeyed Jehovah and declared their independence from Him. Now we are in the unpleasant position of having to struggle in this system of things run by the Devil (because of Adam's rebellion), endure to the end, and gradually wend our ways back to perfection during the Thousand-Year Reign of Christ.

Almost agree with you, here, onewithHim. Here are the two things I disagree with:

1. Though things certainly now seem to be "run by the Devil," God certainly is in control, as He always has been and always will be. As we see in the experience of Job, the Devil can do nothing outside of God's authority. But God works all things together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28)

2. We do have to struggle and endure to the end, but thanks be to God that it is the power of God Himself that gives us faith (Ephesians 2) and "keeps us from stumbling," as Jude puts it (Jude 24). He sustainins us to the end (though we fail from time to time)... we are "protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:5). Jesus Himself is the author and protector/perfecter/finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). For us Christians, He has begun a good work in us and will -- WILL -- bring it to completion at the Day of Christ (Philippians 1:6). Thanks be to God, it is not up to us alone to "wend our ways back to perfection," else we never would. God does this in us by His power via the Holy Spirit, by Whom God dwells in our hearts NOW, in the ongoing Millennium, which will come to a close when Christ returns and, as the hymn-writer says, Christ is truly satisfied and earth and heaven are one (once again).

To the original post ("How are we to be like God?"), I agree with you: LOVE. And the Person of Jesus Christ was and is the perfect Expression of that love, and as Christians, we are being conformed to Him. Yes, love. Everything else follows (good works) and is (are) the natural result of that love:

• "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another... We love, because He first loved us." [1 John 1:7-19; emphasis added]

Grace and peace to all.

1) Yes, YHWH is in control of the universe, absolutely. He allowed Satan to cause Job's suffering, and allowed him to subsequently bring difficulties upon all of mankind, as Satan had suggested that no man would serve Him if they had to suffer. We all have the opportunity to show our love for YHWH even when we suffer.

2) I agree that YHWH and His Son are ready to help us endure all things. It's up to us to continue to walk on "the road to life," by doing what YHWH has commanded that we do (Matt.7:13,14,21-23). True, we can't EARN our salvation without Christ. We must accept him and what he's done, and then also follow in his steps.

"You who were once alienated and enemies because your minds were on the works that were wicked, he has now reconciled by means of that one's [Christ's] fleshly body through his death, in order to present you holy and unblemished and open to no accusation before him---provided, of course, that you CONTINUE in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast, not being SHIFTED AWAY from the hope of that good news that you heard preached in all creation under heaven." (Colossians 1:21-23)

We are saved as long as we stay on the road to life and don't get shifted away from it.

"In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely." (I Peter 2:21)


The Millennium.....You apparently believe that we are experiencing that now? I believe that we have not seen it yet. The Millennium starts ]after Satan has been abyssed. An angel will "seize the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bind him for 1,000 years." The angel will hurl him into the abyss "and shut it and seal it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while." (Revelation 20:2,3) Satan has not been thrown into the abyss yet. The Millennium has not started.


Thank you for your thoughts.

[PinSeeker]

We are saved as long as we stay on the road to life and don't get shifted away from it.

Yes, this is what I suspected. You say it's up to us to "stay saved," to keep ourselves in God's grace. No, tt is God's power, at work in us by the Holy Spirit -- the Helper God has sent in Jesus's name, Who teaches us all things and brings to remembrance all that Jesus has said to us (John 14:26) -- that protects us through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, and in this we greatly rejoice, even when distressed by various trials (1 Peter 1:5-6). In this, we are kept from stumbling (Jude 24). We are sealed in Jesus, God the Son, with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s (the Father's) own possession, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1).

J.I. Packer puts it better than any mere human being I have ever come across:

• GOD -- the Triune Jehovah, Father, Son and Spirit; three Persons working together in sovereign wisdom, power and love to achieve the salvation of a chosen people, the Father electing, the Son fulfilling the Father's will by redeeming, the Spirit executing the purpose of Father and Son by renewing.
  
  SAVES -- does everything, first to last, that is involved in bringing man from death in sin to life in glory: plans, achieves and communicates redemption, calls and keeps, justifies, sanctifies, glorifies.
  
  SINNERS -- men as God finds them, guilty, vile, helpless, powerless, unable to lift a finger to do God's will or better their spiritual lot. God saves sinners and the force of this confession may not be weakened by disrupting the unity of the work of the Trinity, or by dividing the achievement of salvation between God and man and making the decisive part man's own, or by soft-pedaling the sinner's inability so as to allow him to share the praise of his salvation with his Savior... (S)alvation, first and last, whole and entire, past, present and future, is of the Lord, to whom be glory for ever; amen.

In short, we owe absolutely nothing to ourselves, let alone praise for any part of our salvation. To God be the glory... all of it.

The Millennium.....You apparently believe that we are experiencing that now?

Yes.

I believe that we have not seen it yet.

Yes, the most folks believe this. In error. But it's not terribly important, meaning not a salvific issue. It's based on a misreading of Revelation.

The Millennium starts ]after Satan has been abyssed. An angel will "seize the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bind him for 1,000 years." The angel will hurl him into the abyss "and shut it and seal it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while." (Revelation 20:2,3)

Right, but there's a lot to unpack here. I'll just say this, that a lot of folks see the events described in Revelation 20 as all immediately following those described in Revelation 19. This is not the case. Revelation is a series of "histories" describing events from Jesus's ascension to His return, each one focusing more and more on His return, and Revelation 20 is the last.

Satan has not been thrown into the abyss yet. The Millennium has not started.

Yeah, disagree. He has been "thrown into the abyss," in the sense that he is unable to deceive the nations any longer.

Thank you for your thoughts.

You're very welcome; happy to discuss further if you like. Grace and peace to you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 30 by PinSeeker]

I do not agree with your assessment of salvation, and I showed what the scripture says about continuing in the faith, and not getting shifted away. The scriptures wouldn't say that if there was no danger in leaving the faith.

It is surprising that you said that Satan isn't deceiving the nations any longer. Where did you get that idea? Can you explain that to me? I see very plainly that Satan is going full-force throughout the earth, and things keep getting worse and worse.

[myth-one.com]

We are saved as long as we stay on the road to life and don't get shifted away from it.

The wages of sin is death.

Death: the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

One can only truly die once -- by definition.

But in regards to humans, the scriptures state that all will be resurrected.

If "dead" humans will be resurrected back to life, then they are not now truly dead.

In fact, the scriptures state that "dead" humans are resting, slumbering, or sleeping in their graves. -- not dead.

This first "death" is appointed to all mankind:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, . . . (Hebrews 9:27)

==================================

The death which is the wages for our sins is called the "second death."

This death is a true death -- that is, it is everlasting.

Salvation is being saved from this second everlasting physical death.

==============================================

Gaining salvation:

Two type of bodies are defined in the scriptures -- natural and spiritual.

Natural bodies die and spiritual bodies are immortal.

It should be obvious as to the one and only path to salvation.

One gains salvation from death by being born again of the Spirit as a spiritual bodied being. Quoting Jesus, "Ye must be born again."

Once one is born again of the Spirit, death no longer applies to that being.

You say it's up to us to "stay saved," to keep ourselves in God's grace.

Once saved, "staying saved" is an oxymoron -- as you can never again become unsaved and die. You're going to live forever.

============================================

To date no one has been saved. Believers are now heirs unto salvation.

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

We will receive our inheritance of everlasting life when born again at or after the Second Coming:

And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)

It's really simple and straightforward.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 32 by myth-one.com]

I don't agree that you "can only die once." The cessation of all body functions can occur as many times as God allows it.

When He says that people are DEAD, that is what they are, your spin on it notwithstanding.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 32 by myth-one.com]

I don't agree that you "can only die once." The cessation of all body functions can occur as many times as God allows it.

When He says that people are DEAD, that is what they are, your spin on it notwithstanding.

But Jesus stated that Lazarus was both asleep and dead at the same time:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (John 11:14)

How do you "spin" that?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 32 by myth-one.com]

I don't agree that you "can only die once." The cessation of all body functions can occur as many times as God allows it.

When He says that people are DEAD, that is what they are, your spin on it notwithstanding.

But Jesus stated that Lazarus was both asleep and dead at the same time:

He did no such thing. He stated clearly that Lazarus had DIED. That means, even according to your definition, that all of his bodlily functions had ceased. He was no longer alive. He used sleep as a metaphor for death, to show that a person is not conscious at all and can do nothing, and can still be brought back to life by himself (Jesus), with his Father's power.

You continue to contradict yourself. You say that death is a cessation of everything that keeps a person alive, and yet you then say that they really are not dead! You can't have it both ways.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 32 by myth-one.com]

I don't agree that you "can only die once." The cessation of all body functions can occur as many times as God allows it.

When He says that people are DEAD, that is what they are, your spin on it notwithstanding.

But Jesus stated that Lazarus was both asleep and dead at the same time:

He did no such thing. He stated clearly that Lazarus had DIED. That means, even according to your definition, that all of his bodlily functions had ceased. He was no longer alive. He used sleep as a metaphor for death, to show that a person is not conscious at all and can do nothing, and can still be brought back to life by himself (Jesus), with his Father's power.

You continue to contradict yourself. You say that death is a cessation of everything that keeps a person alive, and yet you then say that they really are not dead! You can't have it both ways.

The scriptures quote Jesus as saying that Lazarus was asleep and dead at the same time!

And both statements are true! One was from God's point of view, and the other was from man's point of view.

From God's perspective, there is one true death, the second death.

And if true death is final, then our first death is not death at all. It does not meet the definition of death -- as all of us (believers and nonbelievers) shall live again.

So Jesus was correct when He stated that Lazarus' stinking body which had been lying in the grave for four days was only sleeping.

Likewise, when He spoke "plainly" (as man understands death) and said that Lazarus was dead -- He was also correct.

Once one understands the two deaths described in the Bible, it becomes easier to understand the scriptures.

However, one needs to distinguish which "death" is being referred to in the context of each verse. Words such as sleep, slumber, and rest are used to refer to man's first death.

Words such as die, death, and perish are used to refer to man's permanent second death.

For example:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Refers to man's possible second death.

Only the first death is appointed:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

We can be saved from the second death by accepting Jesus as our Savior.

[onewithhim]

myth, God doesn't play games with words the way you do. When he says in his Word that "dead" means dead, then that is what we are to understand. He tells us things that we can understand. He doesn't present us with smoke and mirrors the way you would have it.

We also must agree to disagree. I won't be responding to any more of your opprobrious postings.

[myth-one.com]

He tells us things that we can understand.

And yet you don't understand them:

Jesus stated that Lazarus was both asleep and dead at the same time:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (John 11:14)

He did no such thing.