Comparing K.J.B. with N.W.T.

[placebofactor]

This is a direct challenge, verse by verse of the N.W.T., and the King James Bible. I am not going to give an opinion. You can compare and decide which Bible is true to the word. I will be using an 1824 and 2015 King James Bibles. As for the N.W.T., I have the 1971, 1984, and 2013 editions. Their first copyright came out in 1961. Before 1961 the Witnesses used a K.J.B.

Okay, let’s get started.
We should all agree on this. The original language of the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and a few verses were written in Chaldean. The New Testament was originally penned in Greek.
The foundation source for the K.J.B. is the Textus Receptus or Received Text. The translation of the text of all ancient known Papyrus Fragments, Uncials, Cursives, and Lectionaries, collectively are known as the "Receptus Textus" and the "Masoretic text." Their number, 5,500 copies, plus 86,000 quotations or allusions to the Scriptures by early Church Fathers. There are another 45 document sources for the N.W.T., although they list 94 in the 1984 edition. The N.W.T. two main sources are the "B" Vatican manuscripts 1209, and the A. or, "Aleph Sinaiticus."

Let’s begin with Philippians 2:8-9-10-11.

Verse 8 in K.J.B. ends with “death of the cross.”
Verse 8, N.W.T. ends with, “death on a torture stake.”

Verse 9 in the N.W.T. ends with a comma “,”.
Verse 9 in the K.J.B. ends with a colon: I hope you understand the difference between the two. The N.W.T. is the only Bible that ends verse 9 with a comma.

Also, note as you read these verses, they have added the word (other) and put it in brackets in the 1984 edition, but removed the brackets in the 1971 or 2013 editions, making it part of the verse. Adding the word (other) gives a reader the impression that the name of Jesus is second to the name Jehovah. In their Interlinear translation, their Greek reads, “over every name.”

Also, "(at) the name of Jesus" has been changed to "(in) the name of Jesus.
"Bow a knee" has been changed to "bend," and "confess" has been changed to "acknowledge."

Bend is not a New Testament word. In the O.T. it is used strictly for “bending or stringing a bow.” To bow a knee is to pay homage or worship. Compare with Romans 14:11, As I live, said the LORD, every knee shall bow to me,” Same word in Philippians.

In English, "bend," means to change shape, or change someone's will, to yield or submit. To yield or submit is not to worship. This change of words chips away at the glory of the Lord Jesus.
Compare verses below:

K.J.B.
Philippians 2: 9-10-11, "God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth; (semi colon) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

N.W.T.
Philippians 2:9-10-11, “For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every (other) name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, (coma) and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Your comments on the above.

[Difflugia]

Example 1 was John 1v1c

Are you claiming that the NWT was not a legitimate translation of the Greek?

No. ...

Fine...

Then we've agreed that they violated their own standards. Have an excellent week.

[JehovahsWitness]

Then we've agreed that they violated their own standards.

We have done no such thing. I will continue to address your points and if you chose not to further defend your position, your silence will go on record as such.

EXAMPLE 3

....despite the translators claiming that the NWT is meant to be a literal translation ...

The NWT does not currently claim to be a literal "word-for-word" translation of the Greek. This argument is therefore null and void.

Please see Appendix 1A of the NWT for details.


JW

[Difflugia]

EXAMPLE 3

....despite the translators claiming that the NWT is meant to be a literal translation ...

The NWT does not currently claim to be a literal "word-for-word" translation of the Greek. This argument is therefore null and void.

Nor did I claim that they claimed it was "word-for-word". The argument is therefore a straw man.

[JehovahsWitness]

EXAMPLE 3

....despite the translators claiming that the NWT is meant to be a literal translation ...

The NWT does not currently claim to be a literal "word-for-word" translation of the Greek. This argument is therefore null and void.

Nor did I claim that they claimed it was "word-for-word". The argument is therefore a straw man.

My understanding is you claim the NWT committee violated their own stated guidelines. Their guidelines state they make individual choices as to whether translate a verse literally (word for word) or to favor translating the meaning on an individual bases. If you agree that is what they have done we have no issue. If you do you can continue to read and address my counterarguments (numbered)


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

EXAMPLE 4

... the NWT runs roughshod over those rules and changes the meaning of the text.

The NWT explicity stated they will respect the grammatical rules of the TARGET language and hold themselves under no obligation to render respect the grammatical rules of Greek when writing (for example) ENGLISH.... The "meaning of a text" is often a matter of opinion, and the NWT committee (like any translational committee) make choices that they believe reflect the "meaning of the text".

That is their stated purpose and therefore this example does not provide proof that they violated said guidelines.

[JehovahsWitness]

EXAMPLE 5

Please give me an example or two showing that the NWT changes the meaning of a verse by inserting a word.

I already linked to a conversation with "other" added to Colossians 1 ...

There is no way to prove that the word "other" changes the "meaning of the verse" ; whether is does or it doesn't is a matter of opinion. In the opinion of the NWT committee it does not change the meaning of the verse. The NWT never claimed they would agree with other translations as to "the meaning of the verse" so regardless of whether one agrees or not, they have NOT violated their own standards by adding the word "other".

The above applies to all other words added or omitted from orginal to the target language as the NWT does not claim to be a strictly "word for word" translation of the Greek

[JehovahsWitness]

EXAMPLE 6

In the Greek, it's the same word in both places. If someone wanted to do a word study, for example, the NWT obscures that relationship. In one place, Luke says that προσκυνέω should only apply to the Lord God. In another, Luke says that the disciples did προσκυνέω to Jesus.

The same word (especially an appellation) can apply to different subjects. The meaning would depend on the context. Since the NWT stated explicitly that they translate with the purpose of making the meaning clear (and will not necessarily adhere to a strict word for word rendition) there is no violation of their own purpose in a variation of rendition in this or any other passage. Their translational choices (as with all translators) hold to respect to the meaning of the original write and make that meaning clear to the target reader.


Thus there is no violation of their own stated purpose.

[JehovahsWitness]

...The paraphrase is changing Luke's wording

The NWT never claimed they would translate "Lukes" wording literally from Greek to the target language, only they would respect Luke's MEANING. Whether they have done so is a matter of opinion (it is obviously the opinion of the NWT committee that they have respected the meaning of Luke's passage). Whether one agrees with that choice or not, the fact is that they have in no way violated their own stated purpose in their rendition.

[JehovahsWitness]

IN SUMMARY

... are you suggesting that the NWT translators fail to hold to their own stated standards?

Yes.

WHAT WERE THE STATED TRANSATIONAL STANDARDS PRESENTED BY THE NWT COMMITTEE?

“We offer no paraphrase of the Scriptures. Our endeavor all through has been to give as literal a translation as possible*, where the modern English idiom allows and ---> where a literal rendition does not for any clumsiness hide the thought <---.”
FULL EXPLANATON OF NWT TRANSATIONAL PRINCIPLES ---> https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1001070201

* Evidently "as literal as possible" as literally as they deem possible while respecting the aforementioned constraints. The expression "offer no paraphrase of the Scriptures" should not be understood that the translation contained absolutely not "paraphrasal" renditions but that the bible could not legitimately be classified as a paraphrase translation.

NOTE ABOVE The NWT Translation committee stated that they endeavored to give as literal a translation as possible * subject to the avoidance of "clumsiness" and / or the obscuring of what they deem to be the original thought (ie the meaning of the author). Any claim that they "failed to hold to their own stated standards" must demonstrate they ...


1. failed to respect what THEY deemed to be the orginal "thought" (orginal meaning and intent of the author) and /or
2. included what they deemed to be "clumsy" (awkward/difficult) renditions of passages in the target language.


DO THE SEVEN LINKS IN POST #214 PROVIDE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE ABOVE TWO POINTS ?

... here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. ...

No they do not. Although the Poster answered in the affirmative to the questioned accusation that the NWT translators fail to hold to their own stated standards The posts listed (linked 1-7) do not prove that to be the case.

The above failure to address the original claim (of violating their own standards ) have been addressed -->here, here, here, here, here, here, and here (onewithim). ...

CONCLUSION While it is true the NWT departs from what might be considered many mainstream renditions, those "departures" cannot by any stretch of the imagination be in violation of their own stated standards , namely to reflect as literal a rendition as they see fit and to reflect what they deem to be the authors original thought even if this means departing from a literal word for word rendition

[tygger2]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

Post #1:
Verse 9 in the N.W.T. ends with a comma “,”.
Verse 9 in the K.J.B. ends with a colon: I hope you understand the difference between the two. The N.W.T. is the only Bible that ends verse 9 with a comma.
........................................................................................
AMP
For this reason also [because He obeyed and so completely humbled Himself], God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
AMPC
Therefore [because He stooped so low] God has highly exalted Him and has freely bestowed on Him the name that is above every name,
CSB
For this reason God highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name,
CEB
Therefore, God highly honored him and gave him a name above all names,
DARBY
Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and granted him a name, that which is above every name,
EHV
Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name,
ESV
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
ESVUK
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
HCSB
For this reason God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name,
JUB
Therefore, God also has highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name,
LSB
Therefore, God also highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
LEB
Therefore also God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name,
TLB
Yet it was because of this that God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name which is above every other name,
MEV
Therefore God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name which is above every name,
MOUNCE
Therefore · · God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
NABRE
Because of this, God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
NASB
For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
NASB1995
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
NCB
Because of this, God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above all other names,
NET
As a result God highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name,
NIV
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
NIVUK
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
NKJV
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
NLT
Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names,
NMB
For this God has exalted him, and given him a name above all names,
NRSVA
Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name,
NRSVACE
Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name,
NRSVCE
Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name,
NRSVUE
Therefore God exalted him even more highly and gave him the name that is above every other name,
OJB
Therefore, also Hashem exalted [YESHAYAH 52:13; 53:12; DANIEL 9:26; 7:14; Ac 2:33; MJ 1:3] Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, and gave to him haShem [Ep 1:21; MJ 1:4] above every name,
RGT
Therefore, God has highly exalted Him and given Him a Name above every name,
RSV
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name,
RSVCE
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name,
TLV
For this reason God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name,
WEB
Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name,
YLT
wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that [is] above every name,