Christians! : What would you do if....

[VermilionUK]

Hypothetically speaking, and assuming God exists:
If you were demanded- by God - to kill an innocent child, would you do it?

[VermilionUK]

Of course if God was evil I would be worshiping the other guy.

How could you tell the difference?

Being a theoretical question if the child was innocent and that entails all the nuances of innocence that are theoretically possible, God would be evil to harm it according to the common definition of good and evil and God.

P4JC

What about Abraham and Isaac? Sure, God didn't have the child killed, but I'd say it's pretty evil to allow a father to prepare to sacrifice his son, only to be stopped at the last minute. Or is that the action of a loving God?

It's not too far off the scenario in the OP

Well personally I think its a huge difference. God wanted Abraham to prove his faith. He did and the rest is history. I agree its a horrific situation and one that fairly terrified me as a child. There are many stories and verses of scripture that I question as being parable or truth or maybe has a translational error, and its why I switched to theology in school. I was fascinated with religion. However I wish now that I had simply switched to archeology and geology. Seminary was too structured etc.

P4JC

The point I was making is that Abraham didn't know it was a test. He thought it was within the character of God to ask for the sacrifice of his son (Isaac). He was fully prepared to kill his son for no reason other than that he was told to.

[Pastor4Jesus]

Of course if God was evil I would be worshiping the other guy.

How could you tell the difference?

Being a theoretical question if the child was innocent and that entails all the nuances of innocence that are theoretically possible, God would be evil to harm it according to the common definition of good and evil and God.

P4JC

What about Abraham and Isaac? Sure, God didn't have the child killed, but I'd say it's pretty evil to allow a father to prepare to sacrifice his son, only to be stopped at the last minute. Or is that the action of a loving God?

It's not too far off the scenario in the OP

Well personally I think its a huge difference. God wanted Abraham to prove his faith. He did and the rest is history. I agree its a horrific situation and one that fairly terrified me as a child. There are many stories and verses of scripture that I question as being parable or truth or maybe has a translational error, and its why I switched to theology in school. I was fascinated with religion. However I wish now that I had simply switched to archeology and geology. Seminary was too structured etc.

P4JC

The point I was making is that Abraham didn't know it was a test. He thought it was within the character of God to ask for the sacrifice of his son (Isaac). He was fully prepared to kill his son for no reason other than that he was told to.

Well it was suggested that he would of gone through with it but no one knows for sure, and in that case he didn't know if the kid was the spawn of Satan or something, and lastly the whole episode was done for a reason, not just for Gods entertainment as you seem to be suggesting. So considering the time and the life of Abraham, his life experiences with God etc I probably would of done the same thing. Of course I can't kill an insect with a clean conscious, however we have to remind ourselves that its God that is demanding it. The creator of the universe God.

P4JC

[VermilionUK]

Of course if God was evil I would be worshiping the other guy.

How could you tell the difference?

Being a theoretical question if the child was innocent and that entails all the nuances of innocence that are theoretically possible, God would be evil to harm it according to the common definition of good and evil and God.

P4JC

What about Abraham and Isaac? Sure, God didn't have the child killed, but I'd say it's pretty evil to allow a father to prepare to sacrifice his son, only to be stopped at the last minute. Or is that the action of a loving God?

It's not too far off the scenario in the OP

Well personally I think its a huge difference. God wanted Abraham to prove his faith. He did and the rest is history. I agree its a horrific situation and one that fairly terrified me as a child. There are many stories and verses of scripture that I question as being parable or truth or maybe has a translational error, and its why I switched to theology in school. I was fascinated with religion. However I wish now that I had simply switched to archeology and geology. Seminary was too structured etc.

P4JC

The point I was making is that Abraham didn't know it was a test. He thought it was within the character of God to ask for the sacrifice of his son (Isaac). He was fully prepared to kill his son for no reason other than that he was told to.

Well it was suggested that he would of gone through with it but no one knows for sure, and in that case he didn't know if the kid was the spawn of Satan or something, and lastly the whole episode was done for a reason, not just for Gods entertainment as you seem to be suggesting. So considering the time and the life of Abraham, his life experiences with God etc I probably would of done the same thing. Of course I can't kill an insect with a clean conscious, however we have to remind ourselves that its God that is demanding it. The creator of the universe God.

P4JC

So might makes right?

[Pastor4Jesus]

No the perfect creator of the universe defines everything and makes right, right. He defines morals and he defines ethics (at least in your case of this theoretical God and the child that God created). If God ordered the child killed it would be morally and ethically correct because he could make it so.

There are so many variations on this that's its really kind of silly to consider it. Try this one; Say the creator of the universe and you are standing there, he created you and knows everything you are thinking, knows how the universe is he knows the spin of every electron in the universe.

He tells you its morally correct to kill a child, how do you know that you a fallible human, that was created by him, would know he is incorrect to demand the child killed?
P4JC

[VermilionUK]

No the perfect creator of the universe defines everything and makes right, right. He defines morals and he defines ethics (at least in your case of this theoretical God and the child that God created). If God ordered the child killed it would be morally and ethically correct because he could make it so. In other words the creator of the universe and you are standing there, he created you and knows everything you are thinking. He tells you its morally correct to kill a child, how do you know that you who are created by him as is all the morals and ethics are correct?

P4JC

I think most people would be aware that we don't get our morals from God, to suggest that we do is, in my opinion, absurd. If we did, why hasn't everyone ticked the "Yes" box in the poll? We (or most of us), try to get along with others because it benefits us as a society, not because of God's word (however you'd define that).

My statement still stands; in your opinion it is morally right to kill the child because he is the creator of the universe - or in other words, because he is powerful enough to "make it so".

[Pastor4Jesus]

We can agree to disagree on the God thing, the question is essentially meaningless if we are talking about an perfect all knowing God. BTW religious folk do say we get our morals from God. Secular folk say we make our own morals. Its called Absolutism vs. Relativism.

P4JC

[JoshC]

If I was God I would respect a human far more if they were brave enough to disobey me, rather than being another God fearing slave to me. After all I could kill the child myself if I really wanted and it does say in my autobiography "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

Anyway a loving God would never put someone through this kind of mental trauma... Abraham *cough cough* Isaac *cough cough cough*

[Pastor4Jesus]

If I was God I would respect a human far more if they were brave enough to disobey me, rather than being another God fearing slave to me. After all I could kill the child myself if I really wanted and it does say in my autobiography "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

Anyway a loving God would never put someone through this kind of mental trauma... Abraham *cough cough* Isaac *cough cough cough*

God does test us. However you are far from God and I doubt that we could even guess the mind of a being that could create a universe. I mean its so silly to even think about rebutting God. However there is precedent. Noah successfully debated with God when trying to find some righteous people on earth before the flood. We by dreaming up these theoretical questions, trying to trap God into some kind of moral lapse just seems kinda funny to me. I think that we have become too soft whining about Gods meanness. I think we should have to go back in time and beat a few cave bears* out of our crib and man up a little. As it stands now here in this thread and in other thread like the armed christian thread we are becoming a nation of vagainazed men, girly men so to speak. Can't play tag in school because someones feelings might get hurt? Come on! *

No thanks give me a spear* and point me in the direction of the first saber tooth cat, I have a set, and issues to resolve*, things to do and young men to educate in the way of manly men....

*DISCLAIMER; I was taking a measure of 'artistic comical licenses' with a chunk of the latter part of this reply, I would hope I didn't have to write this but I did so because of past experiences

P4JC

[JoshC]

I think the "manly man" would have the bollocks to stand up to God and abide by his own morals rather than kill a kid to be honest...

[JoshC]

God tests us

Why? Seeing as he's all knowing, he knew what you would have done anyway so the stress he put the child killer through was unneccessary and therefore rather mean in anyone (but your's) eyes.