Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonable

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Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonable

Post #1

Post by theStudent »

Does science support the various teachings on the origin of life on earth?

Darwinism
Darwin's Theory of Evolution -
FAILED to provide conclusive evidence by
Mutations
— radical changes to living organisms at the genetic level — are said to be the “source of raw material for evolution.� Without significant changes occurring at this level, there is no change to the species at all, no evolution at all.
https://thecuriosityparadox.org/tag/mutations/

After a hundred years of experimentation, thousands of lab-induced mutations in multiplied millions of flies, and intelligent selection acting on those mutations, the world’s most brilliant minds have not been able to produce any different kinds of creatures from Drosophila.
http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.a ... ticle=2501

P. Davis and D. Kenyon, Of Pandas and People (Dallas, Texas: Haughton Publishing Company, 1993)
Mutation does not introduce new levels of complexity, and it cannot be shown that it is a step in the right direction. Most observed mutations are harmful, and there is no experimental evidence to show that a new animal organism or even a novel structural feature has ever been produced from the raw material produced by mutation.
FAILED to provide conclusive evidence by
Genetic Evolution or Evolution by Natural Selection


Writer Tom Bethell commented: “Darwin made a mistake sufficiently serious to undermine his theory. And that mistake has only recently been recognized as such. . . . One organism may indeed be ‘fitter’ than another . . . This, of course, is not something which helps create the organism, . . . It is clear, I think, that there was something very, very wrong with such an idea.� Bethell added: “As I see it the conclusion is pretty staggering: Darwin’s theory, I believe, is on the verge of collapse.�
http://harpers.org/archive/1976/02/darwins-mistake/

Jonathan Wells
The Problem Of Evidence - 2009
Quote:
Darwin's followers now claim that they have "overwhelming evidence" for their theory, but despite 150 years of research no one has ever observed the origin of a new species by natural selection--much less the origin of new organs and body plans.

Not even modern genetics has solved the problem. No matter what we do to the genes of a fruit fly embryo, there are only three possible outcomes: a normal fruit fly, a defective fruit fly or a dead fruit fly. Darwin's claim that microevolution leads to macroevolution has never been empirically corroborated. Indeed, there is growing evidence that the claim is false.

Quote:
Science follows the evidence wherever it leads, but Darwinism does not. So the present controversy over evolution is not a war between science and religion. It is primarily a war between Darwinism and evidence - and the evidence will win.
http://www.discovery.org/a/9061

John Gliedman, "Miracle Mutations, " Science Digest, February 1982, p. 92.
Quote:
Speculation is free. We know nothing about these regulatory master genes.

Marcel P. Schutzenberger, [formerly with University of Paris], "Algorithms and the Neo-Darwinian Theory of Evolution", page 75, at the symposium, "Mathematical Challenges to the Neo-Darwinian Interpretation"
There is no chance (< 10^-1000) to see this mechanism [mutation-selection] appear spontaneously and, if it did, even less for it to remain...Thus, to conclude, we believe there is a considerable gap in the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution, and we believe this gap to be of such a nature that it cannot be bridged within the current conception of biology.
Sir Fred Hoyle [English Astronomer, Professor of Astronomy at Cambridge University], "Hoyle on Evolution", Nature, Vol. 294: 105 (November 12, 1981)
The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way is comparable with the chance that 'a tornado sweeping through a junk yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein'.
FAILED to provide conclusive evidence by
Fossils
records -

QUOTE:
NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC ON FOSSIL RECORD
Written by Administrator
Published: 16 April 2013
Last Updated on 27 February 2015

‘Illuminating but spotty, the fossil record is like a film of evolution from which 999 of every 1,000 frames have been lost on the cutting room floor.’
National Geographic, November p25

Editorial Comment:
[/b]When 99.9% of the fossil evidence for the theory of evolution is missing, you don’t even have a good hypothesis.[/b] (Ref. fossils, evidence, theory)

http://www.creationresearch.net/index.p ... 6&catid=13

To date, scientists worldwide have unearthed and cataloged some 200 million large fossils and billions of microfossils. Many researchers agree that this vast and detailed record shows that all the major groups of animals appeared suddenly and remained virtually unchanged, with many species disappearing as suddenly as they arrived.

After reviewing the evidence of the fossil record, biologist Jonathan Wells writes: “At the level of kingdoms, phyla, and classes, descent with modification from common ancestors is obviously not an observed fact. To judge from the fossil and molecular evidence, it’s not even a well-supported theory.�

Darwinism when tested by The scientific test

1. Perform the test
2. Observe what happens
3. Based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true
4. Test the theory by further observations and by experiments
5. Watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled

FAILED
to prove any tests to be a conclusive fact.

Sir Fred Hoyle, [Astronomer, Cosmologist, and Mathematician, Cambridge University]
The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number with 40,000 noughts after it ... It is big enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of evolution ... if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence.
Pierre-Paul Grasse [French zoologist], Evolution of Living Organisms, page 104 (New York: Academic Press, 1977)
What gambler would be crazy enough to play roulette with random evolution? The probability of dust carried by the wind reproducing Durer's 'Melancholia' is less infinitesimal than the probability of copy errors in the DNA molecule leading to the formation of the eye; besides, these errors had no relationship whatsoever with the function that the eye would have to perform or was starting to perform. There is no law against daydreaming, but science must not indulge in it.
Darwin confessed, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."
http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/

Astronomer Robert Jastrow
...chemists have never succeeded in reproducing nature’s experiments on the creation of life out of nonliving matter.
Darwin’s Origin of Species (London, 1956)
Introduction to the centennial edition
W. R. Thompson (former director of the Commonwealth Institute of Biological Control, Ottawa, Canada)
...evidence is unsatisfactory and does not permit any certain conclusion.
The Star, (Johannesburg), April 20, 1982, p. 19.
C. Booker (London Times writer)
A century after Darwin’s death, we still have not the slightest demonstrable or even plausible idea of how evolution really took place.
The scientific magazine Discover - October 1980, p. 88
Evolution . . . is not only under attack by fundamentalist Christians, but is also being questioned by reputable scientists. Among paleontologists
John Gliedman, "Miracle Mutations, " Science Digest, February 1982, p. 92.
Some scientists are proposing even more rapid evolutionary changes and are now dealing quite seriously with ideas once popularized only in fiction.
Richard Goldschmidt, Material Basis of Evolution
nobody has ever succeeded in producing even one new species by the accumulation of micro-mutations. Darwin's theory of natural selection has never had any proof, yet it has been universally accepted.

"Organic soup" or "Primordial soup" hypothesis
FAILED to provide conclusive evidence by
Abiogenesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe, Evolution from Space
... Life cannot have had a random beginning ... The trouble is that there are about two thousand enzymes, and the chance of obtaining them all in a random trial is only one part in 10 to the power of 40,000, an outrageously small probability that could not be faced even if the whole universe consisted of organic soup. If one is not prejudiced either by social beliefs or by a scientific training into the conviction that life originated on the Earth, this simple calculation wipes the idea entirely out of court ...
Ali Demirsoy, Kalitim ve Evrim (Inheritance and Evolution), page 39 (Ankara: Meteksan Publishing Co., 1984)
In fact, the probability of the formation of a protein and a nucleic acid (DNA-RNA) is a probability way beyond estimate. Furthermore, the chance of the emergence of a certain protein chain is so slight as to be called astronomic.
Abiogenesis when tested by The scientific test

1. Perform the test
2. Observe what happens
3. Based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true
4. Test the theory by further observations and by experiments
5. Watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled

FAILED
to prove any tests to be a conclusive fact.


Cosmic Evolution
FAILED to provide conclusive evidence by
the big bang


Conrad H. Waddington [Professor of Animal Genetics, University of Edinburgh], "The Listener" (London, November 13, 1952), in A. Koestler, The Ghost in the Machine, page 127 (1989 reprint, London: Arkana, 1967)
To suppose that the evolution of the wonderfully adapted biological mechanisms has depended only on a selection out of a haphazard set of variations, each produced by blind chance, is like suggesting that if we went on throwing bricks together into heaps, we should eventually be able to choose ourselves the most desirable house.
F. Hoyle, "The Universe: Past and Present Reflections," Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics, Vol. 20: 1-35, 15 (1982)
A spaceship approaches the Earth, but not close enough for its imaginary inhabitants to distinguish individual terrestrial animals. They see growing crops, roads, bridges, and a debate ensues. Are these chance formations or are they the products of an intelligence? It is not at all difficult to formulate examples of events with exceedingly low probabilities. A roulette wheel operates in a casino. A bystander notes the sequence of numbers thrown by the wheel over the course of a whole year. What is the chance that this particular sequence should have turned up? Well, not as small as 1 in 10^40000, but extremely small nonetheless. So there is nothing especially remarkable in a tiny probability. Yet it surely would be exceedingly remarkable if the sequence thrown by the roulette wheel in the course of a year should have an explicit mathematical significance, as for instance if the numbers turned out to form the digits of pi to an enormous number of decimal places. This is just the situation with a living cell which is not any old random jumble of chemicals.
Biologist Edwin Conkline
The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the probability of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop.
Cosmic Evolution when tested by The scientific test

1. Perform the test
2. Observe what happens
3. Based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true
4. Test the theory by further observations and by experiments
5. Watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled

FAILED
to prove any tests to be a conclusive fact.


Proving the theory of Evolution (that life on earth originated by chance) to be a fact, to date, is impossible.
George Howe, expert in biological sciences
The chance that useful DNA molecules would develop without a Designer are apparently zero. Then let me conclude by asking which came first - the DNA (which is essential for the synthesis of proteins) or the protein enzyme (DNA-polymerase) without which DNA synthesis is nil? ... there is virtually no chance that chemical 'letters' would spontaneously produce coherent DNA and protein 'words.
Biochemist George Waldf
One has only to contemplate the magnitude of this task to concede that the spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible.
These theories also prove to be both illogical and unreasonable. They defy logic and reason.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #11

Post by theStudent »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 8 by theStudent]
theStudent wrote: I agree with all the above, but all science do not follow that rule.
For example,

If I have a guide book, which I require, all my staff to follow.
I don't think that if everyone follow those rules, that anyone would have any basis to say that the rules were not being followed by A, B, C, or D.
Which i find to be the case with science, in certain experiments - not all.
Are you saying that for 150+ years ALL the scientists testing the theory of evolution have been using poor methodology?

And all the others have fallen for that or just let them do it?

Sounds a bit of a stretch to me.
I wonder if ALL science is done so poorly, or JUST biology and anything related with evolution? Scientists in general are POOR scientists?

We are talking about thousands of individual scientists since the 1850s....all of them not good at it? Lucky for us that the Creationists come along to show us just how SILLY the TOE is?

What's going ON here... ?

:)
:)
Hey guy
Let me correct myself.
When I say science, I meant those in the field of science.

Haven't we seen it done before, in other fields, where the ones with the most "power" wins?
In other word, the ones who are considered 'top dogs', because they have the years and the papers, so if you are 'down there', the 'little puppy', you had better not keep too much noise.

All the research I have done, has not turned up one shred of evidence, that any experiment have been successful in showing the theories work.

Rather, all I see turning up, are complaints about how those in the field of science insist that something was proven, when it hasn't.
And it's not only me.

Here
Read this interesting article:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APConte ... ticle=1249
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #12

Post by Goat »

theStudent wrote:
Goat wrote:
theStudent wrote: Does science support the various teachings on the origin of life on earth?

Darwinism
Darwin's Theory of Evolution -
FAILED to provide conclusive evidence by
Mutations
— radical changes to living organisms at the genetic level — are said to be the “source of raw material for evolution.� Without significant changes occurring at this level, there is no change to the species at all, no evolution at all.
https://thecuriosityparadox.org/tag/mutations/
That is the claim. however, no evidence has been provided,except for out of context quotes (known as quote mining). Would you care to actually discuss the evidence, rather than a cut/paste from a biased web site that does not accurately present the data?

Can you show that there are no 'signifigent changes at the genetic level', and define in a quantitative manner what 'signifigent changes' actually means>?

As such, these quotes are basically rants that have no actual argument to it.

Before continuing on to the rest of the sources, let's tackle the first source in a complete manner first. Otherwise, it gets nothing but a 'Gish Gallop', where more and more stuff is thrown against the wall to see what sticks. Let's see you actually defend this claim first.
I agree with all the above, but all science do not follow that rule.
For example,
If I have a guide book, which I require, all my staff to follow.
I don't think that if everyone follow those rules, that anyone would have any basis to say that the rules were not being followed by A, B, C, or D.
Which i find to be the case with science, in certain experiments - not all.
Your response doesn't seem to address what asked, and was a very unfocused response. Would you clarify?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #13

Post by theStudent »

John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #14

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 11 by theStudent]

theStudent wrote:Hey guy
Let me correct myself.
When I say science, I meant those in the field of science.
Thanks for the clarification. I make so many mistakes in here....

But when you say "those in the field of science", do you mean "scientists"?
Because, that's how I describe those who are in the "field doing science".
theStudent wrote:Haven't we seen it done before, in other fields, where the ones with the most "power" wins?
That sounds like politics, not science. So, are you advocating that YOUR SIDE SHOULD WIN, instead? Most people don't believe in the TOE, by the way. Why don't they use their political muscle and ram that in? Is that how you think science SHOULD work?

By popular VOTE?
theStudent wrote:In other word, the ones who are considered 'top dogs', because they have the years and the papers, so if you are 'down there', the 'little puppy', you had better not keep too much noise.
So, all science is simply politics and doesn't care about what is found in nature?
theStudent wrote:All the research I have done, has not turned up one shred of evidence, that any experiment have been successful in showing the theories work.
Your research seems to contradict 150 years of scientific investigations. I have to trust your research and not all of the scientists who have gone before you. I think that's a bit of a stretch, don't you? I don't usually ask preachers for their opinions concerning physics, either. Somehow, I usually ask PHYSICISTS about physics. I don't really CARE what a preacher thinks about it religiously.

Some preacher might OBJECT to certain aspects of physics and find A LOT of problems with theories in physics. It might not match what HE believes his holy book says. Well... ok. But I don't care what some preacher believes on religious grounds. I'm an atheist. If I want some science, I get some science.

Who do YOU consult?
theStudent wrote:Rather, all I see turning up, are complaints about how those in the field of science insist that something was proven, when it hasn't.
And it's not only me.
I don't imagine that you are the only creationist. I don't imagine that scientists are perfect. I don't imagine that science is static. We know a LOT more than we ever did in the past. And this... insistence that something has been proven?... not exactly how science works, my friend. We have facts or we don't. Scientific theories EXPLAIN the facts.

That's what the TOE has done so well for over 150 years.
theStudent wrote:Here
Read this interesting article:
I've read a lot of interesting creationist articles. But you seem to want to discount the actual scientists who agree with what they CALL is overwhelming proof of the TOE because they have papers and so on... and you want to ACCEPT what the creationists think about the science.

You have SOMEHOW found a lot of problems that scientists are working on, and have not yet found answers for. That's fair.

That's HOW good science works.
Every bit of scientific data is contested.

You probably FOUND those objections and problems FROM THE SCIENTISTS THEMSELVES. The creationists take their data ( let's pretend they get it right at least SOMETIMES ) FROM the actual scientists. Creationists do NOT engage in the study of the TOE. The DOVER case in 2006 proved that ID was CREATIONISM and creationism is NOT a science but a RELIGIOUS position that is AGAINST science.

So, let's assume for a minute that there is a vast power structure... ramming the falsehood of the TOE.... are you saying that this is a global conspiracy that has spanned over 150 years?

Do you think that Darwin, perhaps was the grand criminal mastermind behind it all?

What's going on here?
Are creationists the only REAL scientists?


:)

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #15

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 14 by Blastcat]

What's the TOE?
Could you verify please.

And since you are a reasonable guy, could you please point me to a post in these forums, or a website, that presents the facts that I have missed. Because I can't seem to find them, and it's not that I am not looking.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #16

Post by H.sapiens »

The author of your link does not know what he is talking about of what either an argument from ignorance or an argument from authority are. Please look up both in wiki and then come back and let us know where Kyle Butt got it wrong
theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 14 by Blastcat]

What's the TOE?
Could you verify please.

And since you are a reasonable guy, could you please point me to a post in these forums, or a website, that presents the facts that I have missed. Because I can't seem to find them, and it's not that I am not looking.
TOE= Theory of Evolution.

It would take a 4 year degree to begin to cover the facts that you have missed. Wiki, however, is pretty good source with reasonable layman level coverage to the TOE.

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #17

Post by theStudent »

H.sapiens wrote:
The author of your link does not know what he is talking about of what either an argument from ignorance or an argument from authority are. Please look up both in wiki and then come back and let us know where Kyle Butt got it wrong
theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 14 by Blastcat]

What's the TOE?
Could you verify please.

And since you are a reasonable guy, could you please point me to a post in these forums, or a website, that presents the facts that I have missed. Because I can't seem to find them, and it's not that I am not looking.
TOE= Theory of Evolution.

It would take a 4 year degree to begin to cover the facts that you have missed. Wiki, however, is pretty good source with reasonable layman level coverage to the TOE.
Is this the article you are referring to?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
I read it, and I found it so laughable, it wasn't funny at all.
How is this not what this article is saying?
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APConte ... ticle=1249
The law of rationality insists that a person should accept only those propositions and ideas for which there is adequate evidence. This law of thought is so general and ubiquitous in its application that few people even realize they actually use it on a regular bases. For instance, if a man shows up at his office late for work with a torn shirt and a black eye, claiming that he was attacked by killer fairies from Sherwood Forest, the man’s boss does not have to think very long before reprimanding the tardy employee. On the other hand, if an employee shows up claiming to have been in a car accident, and he bolsters his claim with the evidence of a dent in his car and a police-written ticket verifying that an automobile accident occurred, then the boss most likely would believe the employee. We see, then, that the law of rationality is used by most people on a regular basis.
attacked by killer fairies from Sherwood Forest.
It's a known fact fairies are mythical.
DISMISSED
evidence of a dent in his car and a police-written ticket verifying that an automobile accident occurred
There is some evidence.
points more in the direction of it being factual.
Sometimes, however, a certain idea or philosophy will present itself that does not have the adequate, verifiable evidence necessary to demand acceptance. Because of this lack of evidence, the proponents of this idea appeal to certain “proofs� that, on the surface, seem to be legitimate, but in reality are not evidence at all.
For example, suppose that a salesman is selling medallions that are supposed to keep elephants away from the owner of such a medallion. And suppose that the salesman happens to be selling these amazing contraptions to the citizens of Alaska. When one suspicious customer asks if the medallions really work, the salesman replies, “Sure they work, you don’t see an elephant within 100 miles of here, do you?� Looking at the salesman’s statement, it is easy to see that something is amiss, but exactly what is it? In short, the salesman has committed a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument from ignorance). The argument from ignorance basically says, “You cannot prove that my elephant medallions are not the reason why there are no elephants here.� The essence of this fallacy is the claim that a person accepts a proposition because it cannot be proven untrue. The problem with this line of reasoning is that it does not present any positive proof, therefore, in reality, it presents no proof (see Geisler and Brooks, 1990, pp. 95-96). The above example is just one of a plethora of logical fallacies—i.e., appeals to as proof that, in reality, offer no proof at all.
And you say this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
I say the complete opposite - he knows exactly what he's talking about, and so does the other two dozen or more professors I quoted previously.

However, what is, is.
I already stated that it would not surprise me if evolution was established as a fact.
Neither would it surprise me if they presented "proof" of alien life and technologies.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #18

Post by theStudent »

Is this the article you are referring to?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

I read it, and I found it so laughable, it wasn't funny at all.
How is this not what this article is saying?
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APConte ... ticle=1249
The law of rationality insists that a person should accept only those propositions and ideas for which there is adequate evidence. This law of thought is so general and ubiquitous in its application that few people even realize they actually use it on a regular bases. For instance, if a man shows up at his office late for work with a torn shirt and a black eye, claiming that he was attacked by killer fairies from Sherwood Forest, the man’s boss does not have to think very long before reprimanding the tardy employee. On the other hand, if an employee shows up claiming to have been in a car accident, and he bolsters his claim with the evidence of a dent in his car and a police-written ticket verifying that an automobile accident occurred, then the boss most likely would believe the employee. We see, then, that the law of rationality is used by most people on a regular basis.
attacked by killer fairies from Sherwood Forest.
It's a known fact fairies are mythical.
DISMISSED
evidence of a dent in his car and a police-written ticket verifying that an automobile accident occurred
There is some evidence.
points more in the direction of it being factual.
Sometimes, however, a certain idea or philosophy will present itself that does not have the adequate, verifiable evidence necessary to demand acceptance. Because of this lack of evidence, the proponents of this idea appeal to certain “proofs� that, on the surface, seem to be legitimate, but in reality are not evidence at all.
For example, suppose that a salesman is selling medallions that are supposed to keep elephants away from the owner of such a medallion. And suppose that the salesman happens to be selling these amazing contraptions to the citizens of Alaska. When one suspicious customer asks if the medallions really work, the salesman replies, “Sure they work, you don’t see an elephant within 100 miles of here, do you?� Looking at the salesman’s statement, it is easy to see that something is amiss, but exactly what is it? In short, the salesman has committed a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument from ignorance). The argument from ignorance basically says, “You cannot prove that my elephant medallions are not the reason why there are no elephants here.� The essence of this fallacy is the claim that a person accepts a proposition because it cannot be proven untrue. The problem with this line of reasoning is that it does not present any positive proof, therefore, in reality, it presents no proof (see Geisler and Brooks, 1990, pp. 95-96). The above example is just one of a plethora of logical fallacies—i.e., appeals to as proof that, in reality, offer no proof at all.
And you say this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
I say the complete opposite - he knows exactly what he's talking about, and so does the other two dozen or more professors I quoted previously.

However, what is, is.
I already stated that it would not surprise me if evolution was established as a fact.
Neither would it surprise me if they presented "proof" of alien life and technologies.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #19

Post by H.sapiens »

I can see you did not bother to look up argument from ignorance and argument from authority, I'll make it easier for you.

How do these two definitions differ from the way Butts use them?


Arguments that appeal to ignorance rely merely on the fact that the veracity of the proposition is not disproven to arrive at a definite conclusion. These arguments fail to appreciate that the limits of one's understanding or certainty do not change what is true. They do not inform upon reality. That is, whatever the reality is, it does not "wait" upon human logic or analysis to be formulated. Reality exists at all times, and it exists independently of what is in the mind of anyone. And the true thrust of science and rational analysis is to separate preconceived notion(s) of what reality is, and to be open at all times to the observation of nature as it behaves, so as truly to discover reality. This fallacy can be very convincing and is considered by some to be a special case of a false dilemma or false dichotomy in that they both fail to consider alternatives. A false dilemma may take the form:

If a proposition has not been disproven, then it cannot be considered false and must therefore be considered true.

If a proposition has not been proven, then it cannot be considered true and must therefore be considered false.

Such arguments attempt to exploit the facts that (a) true things can never be disproven and (b) false things can never be proven. In other words, appeals to ignorance claim that the converse of these facts are also true. Therein lies the fallacy.

and

Historically, opinion on the appeal to authority has been divided - it has been held to be a valid argument about as often as it has been considered an outright fallacy.[2]

John Locke, in his 1690 Essay Concerning Human Understanding, was the first to identify argumentum ad verecundiam as a specific category of argument.[3] Although he did not call this type of argument a fallacy, he did note that it can be misused by taking advantage of the "respect" and "submission" of the reader or listener to persuade them to accept the conclusion.[4] Over time, logic textbooks started to adopt and change Locke's original terminology to refer more specifically to fallacious uses of the argument from authority.[5] By the mid-twentieth century, it was common for logic textbooks to refer to the "Fallacy of appealing to authority," even while noting that "this method of argument is not always strictly fallacious."[6]

In the Western rationalistic tradition[7] and in early modern philosophy, appealing to authority was generally considered a logical fallacy.[8]

More recently, logic textbooks have shifted to a less blanket approach to these arguments, now often referring to the fallacy as the "Argument from Unqualified Authority"[9] or the "Argument from Unreliable Authority

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Re: Evidence Evolutionist are Dead Wrong - Creation Reasonab

Post #20

Post by Goat »

What in that very large essay (which, I might say , has a lot of issues with it)< that you actually find convincing? Raw links really don't say much.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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