[font=Georgia]-
Hello;
Seeing as how this area is set up for people with an urge to express their
opinions rather than argue back and forth in endless disputes that never get
to the bottom of anything; I'm taking advantage of the relatively peaceable
environment hereabouts to post my thoughts on a variety of Bible subjects;
beginning with the one below.
Light
In the April 2014 edition of Discover magazine, astrophysicist/cosmologist
Avi Loeb stated that the Bible attributes the appearance of stars and
galaxies to the divine proclamation "Let there be light". Is Mr. Loeb's
statement correct? No; of course not. God created light on the very first day
of creation; while luminous celestial objects weren't created until the fourth.
The Bible is notoriously concise in some places; especially in it's story of the
creation of light. Well; the creation of light was a very, very intricate
process. First God had to create particulate matter, and along with those
particles their specific properties, including mass. Then He had to invent
laws to govern how matter behaves in combination with and/or in the
presence of, other kinds of matter in order to generate photons.
The same laws that make it possible for matter to generate photons also
make other conditions possible too; e.g. fire, wind, water, ice, soil, rain, life,
centrifugal force, thermodynamics, fusion, dark energy, gravity, atoms,
organic molecules, magnetism, radiation, high energy X-rays and gamma
rays, temperature, pressure, force, inertia, sound, friction, and electricity; et
al. So the creation of light was a pretty big deal; yet Genesis scarcely gives
its origin passing mention.
†. Gen 1:1-2 . .The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the
surface of the deep
That statement reveals the cosmos' condition prior to the creation of light;
and no mystery there because sans the natural laws that make light
possible, the cosmos' particulate matter would never have coalesced into
something coherent.
2Cor 4:6 verifies that light wasn't introduced into the cosmos from outside in
order to dispel the darkness and brighten things up a bit; but rather, it
radiated out of the cosmos from inside-- from itself --indicating that the
cosmos was created to be self-illuminating by means of the various
interactions of the matter that God made for it; including, but not limited to,
the Higgs Boson.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
What I Think
Moderator: Moderators
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #21
[font=Arial]-
David's Little Boy
Long story short: David breached the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed
upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy by
committing the capital crimes of premeditated murder and adultery (2Sam
11:1-2Sam 12:23). As bad as those two breaches are; what really rattled
heaven's cage was that David's conduct was an embarrassment.
†. 2Sam 12:14a . . Because by this deed you have given occasion to the
enemies of The Lord to blaspheme,
What might the nature of that blasphemy be? Well behavior like David's
causes the world to question the wisdom of Yhvh's choice of a people for His
name. That's a very common form of blaspheme: it goes on all the time.
(e.g. Isa 62:5, Rom 2:24)
†. 2Sam 12:14b-18 . . the child also that is born to you shall surely die . .
.The Lord struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he was
very sick . . .Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died.
How was that fair? Well; it wasn't meant to be fair to the boy; it was meant
to be fair to David. His little boy was just collateral damage.
†. Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed:
Yhvh, Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding
in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who
forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the
guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the
grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.
It is apparently God's sovereign prerogative to get back at people by going
after their posterity and/or the people they govern.
There's a horrific example of collateral damage located at Num 16:25-34.
Another is the Flood. No doubt quite a few underage children drowned in
that event due to their parents' wickedness. The same happened to the
children in Sodom and Gomorrah, and Ham's punishment for humiliating
Noah was a curse upon his son Canaan, and during Moses' face-off with
Pharaoh, God moved against the man's firstborn son along with all those of
his subjects.
The grand-daddy of all collateral damages is everybody has to die because
the human race's progenitor disobeyed God in the very beginning. (Rom
5:12-18)
Interesting isn't it? There are times when Heaven's anger seems to come out
of the blue; but if truth be known; sometimes it actually comes out of the
past; for example:
†. 2Sam 21:1 . . Now there was a famine in the days of David for three
years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord. And the
Lord said: It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites
to death.
Joshua agreed to a non-aggression pact with the Gibeonites during the
conquest of Canaan (Josh 9:3-16). Saul, when king, dishonored the pact. He
apparently got away with it; but not his countrymen, no; God slammed them
for what Saul did; and that posthumously.
Moral of the story: The sins of today, jeopardize the lives of tomorrow; and
sometimes those lives are very large in number.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
David's Little Boy
Long story short: David breached the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed
upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy by
committing the capital crimes of premeditated murder and adultery (2Sam
11:1-2Sam 12:23). As bad as those two breaches are; what really rattled
heaven's cage was that David's conduct was an embarrassment.
†. 2Sam 12:14a . . Because by this deed you have given occasion to the
enemies of The Lord to blaspheme,
What might the nature of that blasphemy be? Well behavior like David's
causes the world to question the wisdom of Yhvh's choice of a people for His
name. That's a very common form of blaspheme: it goes on all the time.
(e.g. Isa 62:5, Rom 2:24)
†. 2Sam 12:14b-18 . . the child also that is born to you shall surely die . .
.The Lord struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he was
very sick . . .Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died.
How was that fair? Well; it wasn't meant to be fair to the boy; it was meant
to be fair to David. His little boy was just collateral damage.
†. Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed:
Yhvh, Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding
in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who
forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the
guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the
grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.
It is apparently God's sovereign prerogative to get back at people by going
after their posterity and/or the people they govern.
There's a horrific example of collateral damage located at Num 16:25-34.
Another is the Flood. No doubt quite a few underage children drowned in
that event due to their parents' wickedness. The same happened to the
children in Sodom and Gomorrah, and Ham's punishment for humiliating
Noah was a curse upon his son Canaan, and during Moses' face-off with
Pharaoh, God moved against the man's firstborn son along with all those of
his subjects.
The grand-daddy of all collateral damages is everybody has to die because
the human race's progenitor disobeyed God in the very beginning. (Rom
5:12-18)
Interesting isn't it? There are times when Heaven's anger seems to come out
of the blue; but if truth be known; sometimes it actually comes out of the
past; for example:
†. 2Sam 21:1 . . Now there was a famine in the days of David for three
years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord. And the
Lord said: It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites
to death.
Joshua agreed to a non-aggression pact with the Gibeonites during the
conquest of Canaan (Josh 9:3-16). Saul, when king, dishonored the pact. He
apparently got away with it; but not his countrymen, no; God slammed them
for what Saul did; and that posthumously.
Moral of the story: The sins of today, jeopardize the lives of tomorrow; and
sometimes those lives are very large in number.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #22
[font=Arial]-
The Meaning Of "Under The Law"
†. Rom 6:14 . . For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under
law, but under grace.
NOTE: The law's mastery is played out in its power to control people's
destiny. For example when somebody commits grand theft, criminal justice
puts the thief behind bars regardless of how he might feel about it.
The "law" in question is the covenanted law that Yhvh's people agreed upon
with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The
important thing to note about the agreement is that it's a legally binding
contract. So then the term "under the law" refers to contractual obligations.
Seeing as how Christ's followers are not contracted with God to comply with
the covenant, then neither is God contractually obligated to penalize Christ's
followers for breaching it.
God has to lower the boom on Yhvh's people with any and/or all of the
curses listed at Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 for
breaching the covenant, but He doesn't have to lower the boom on Christ's
followers with those curses because He isn't contracted with them to do so.
This is a very important aspect of Christianity.
In a nutshell: where there is no contract, there is no contract to breach; and
where there is no law, there is no law to break; and where there is no law to
break, there are no indictments. (Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13)
This principle applies in a really big way to people who have undergone the
baptism described at Rom 6:3-11 because it essentially means that they
cannot be sent to hell for breaking the Ten Commandments, or any of the
other covenanted commandments for that matter.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
The Meaning Of "Under The Law"
†. Rom 6:14 . . For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under
law, but under grace.
NOTE: The law's mastery is played out in its power to control people's
destiny. For example when somebody commits grand theft, criminal justice
puts the thief behind bars regardless of how he might feel about it.
The "law" in question is the covenanted law that Yhvh's people agreed upon
with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The
important thing to note about the agreement is that it's a legally binding
contract. So then the term "under the law" refers to contractual obligations.
Seeing as how Christ's followers are not contracted with God to comply with
the covenant, then neither is God contractually obligated to penalize Christ's
followers for breaching it.
God has to lower the boom on Yhvh's people with any and/or all of the
curses listed at Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 for
breaching the covenant, but He doesn't have to lower the boom on Christ's
followers with those curses because He isn't contracted with them to do so.
This is a very important aspect of Christianity.
In a nutshell: where there is no contract, there is no contract to breach; and
where there is no law, there is no law to break; and where there is no law to
break, there are no indictments. (Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13)
This principle applies in a really big way to people who have undergone the
baptism described at Rom 6:3-11 because it essentially means that they
cannot be sent to hell for breaking the Ten Commandments, or any of the
other covenanted commandments for that matter.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #23
[font=Arial]-
Who/What The Schoolmaster Is
†. Gal 3:24 . .The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The koiné Greek word for "schoolmaster" is paidagogos (pahee-dag-o-gos') which defines not a headmaster, nor a teacher, nor a tutor. It essentially defines a servant whose responsibility it was to take their master's children to school. In other words: a sort of chaperone who made sure the kids got there; even if the servant had to take them by the hand to do it.
The "law" to which the writer refers is the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Although Gentiles aren't contracted with God to comply with the covenant, it's useful for revealing God's feelings about certain kinds of behavior; for example:
†. Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, nor lie to one another.
Once a Gentile is made aware that their maker disapproves of dishonesty, henceforth they get in hot water every time they lie because God is lenient with uninformed liars but has little patience with scofflaws.
†. Num 15:30-31 . .The person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles the Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has spurned the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt.
So; what might "cut off" amount to? Well; for one: no liar will be allowed entrance to the holy city.
†. Rev 21:27 . . No one who practices lying shall ever come into it
†. Rev 22:14-15 . . Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are whoever loves and practices a lie.
The law's task then; is to instill fear in dishonesty, and make liars aware that if they opt to take their chances, and stand before God to be judged on their own merits; that they haven't the slightest, slimmest possibility of coming away unscathed. It's a 110% forgone conclusion that they will come away dead.
†. Rev 21:8 . . All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
I am willing to bet that nobody can get through the day without dishonesty-- we need dishonesty, we have to have dishonesty or interactions with our friends, with strangers, with associates, with superiors and loved ones would be very strained indeed. It is just humanly impossible to be honest all the time. I would even go so far as to say that in the world in which we live; it's not smart to be 110% honest all the time; viz: "Honesty is the best policy" just isn't true; not in the world we live in anyway; which is a bit of a catch-22.
Q: Why does everyone find it so easy to lie?
A: Because human beings are natural-born liars.
†. Ps 58:3 . . The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth.
That's an interesting statement. It's saying-- in so many words --that although infants are too young to lie; they are born with a proclivity to lie, and that's what makes them wicked because that proclivity to lie is in them and will eventually have its way with them.
Q: How are people supposed to obey that commandment seeing as how we're all natural-born liars?
A: Nobody can, it's impossible.
†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.
Well; the Schoolmaster's goal is not just to frighten liars and make them nervous; but also to show them the God-given way out of their predicament.
†. Gal 3:24 . .The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The cross' first and foremost purpose was to satisfy justice for liars. That right there should make liars breathe a little easier in respect to the sum of all fears.
†. 1John 2:1-2 . . If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
†. Isa 53:6 . . All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on him.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
Who/What The Schoolmaster Is
†. Gal 3:24 . .The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The koiné Greek word for "schoolmaster" is paidagogos (pahee-dag-o-gos') which defines not a headmaster, nor a teacher, nor a tutor. It essentially defines a servant whose responsibility it was to take their master's children to school. In other words: a sort of chaperone who made sure the kids got there; even if the servant had to take them by the hand to do it.
The "law" to which the writer refers is the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Although Gentiles aren't contracted with God to comply with the covenant, it's useful for revealing God's feelings about certain kinds of behavior; for example:
†. Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, nor lie to one another.
Once a Gentile is made aware that their maker disapproves of dishonesty, henceforth they get in hot water every time they lie because God is lenient with uninformed liars but has little patience with scofflaws.
†. Num 15:30-31 . .The person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles the Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has spurned the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt.
So; what might "cut off" amount to? Well; for one: no liar will be allowed entrance to the holy city.
†. Rev 21:27 . . No one who practices lying shall ever come into it
†. Rev 22:14-15 . . Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are whoever loves and practices a lie.
The law's task then; is to instill fear in dishonesty, and make liars aware that if they opt to take their chances, and stand before God to be judged on their own merits; that they haven't the slightest, slimmest possibility of coming away unscathed. It's a 110% forgone conclusion that they will come away dead.
†. Rev 21:8 . . All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
I am willing to bet that nobody can get through the day without dishonesty-- we need dishonesty, we have to have dishonesty or interactions with our friends, with strangers, with associates, with superiors and loved ones would be very strained indeed. It is just humanly impossible to be honest all the time. I would even go so far as to say that in the world in which we live; it's not smart to be 110% honest all the time; viz: "Honesty is the best policy" just isn't true; not in the world we live in anyway; which is a bit of a catch-22.
Q: Why does everyone find it so easy to lie?
A: Because human beings are natural-born liars.
†. Ps 58:3 . . The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth.
That's an interesting statement. It's saying-- in so many words --that although infants are too young to lie; they are born with a proclivity to lie, and that's what makes them wicked because that proclivity to lie is in them and will eventually have its way with them.
Q: How are people supposed to obey that commandment seeing as how we're all natural-born liars?
A: Nobody can, it's impossible.
†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.
Well; the Schoolmaster's goal is not just to frighten liars and make them nervous; but also to show them the God-given way out of their predicament.
†. Gal 3:24 . .The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The cross' first and foremost purpose was to satisfy justice for liars. That right there should make liars breathe a little easier in respect to the sum of all fears.
†. 1John 2:1-2 . . If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
†. Isa 53:6 . . All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on him.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #24
[font=Arial]-
The Flesh
†. Rom 8:13 . . For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by
the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
The koiné Greek word for flesh is sarx (sarx); which essentially indicates the
meaty parts of either man or beast. The meat of the human body would of
course include the 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within a
man's bony little skull sufficing for a mind; and it's not all that difficult to
tamper with a brain and make its owner quite mindless.
The meaty parts of the human body are the source of a human being's
human nature and it isn't all that difficult to define. Webster's says its (1)
the ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that are common to most people,
and (2) the nature of humans; especially the fundamental dispositions and
traits of humans.
In a nutshell then: the flesh, as per Rom 8:13, can be concisely defined as
that which comes natural to an organic species of life
Ironically, when God finished assembling the cosmos with its various forms
of life, matter, and energy; He pronounced it all not just good; but "very"
good. In other words, God was satisfied that the human body came out just
exactly as He designed it to come out; but it didn't stay that way.
†. Rom 7:18 . . I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing: for to will is present with me
How did something that God once pronounced "very good" become no good?
Well; the answer to that has to be the forbidden fruit. Something in the
chemistry of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil caused permanent
damage to human DNA.
When people do something contrary to their own better judgment; it's very
common to hear them say "I don't know what came over me". Well; the
thing that came over them was their flesh doing what comes natural in spite
of how they might feel about it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
The Flesh
†. Rom 8:13 . . For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by
the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
The koiné Greek word for flesh is sarx (sarx); which essentially indicates the
meaty parts of either man or beast. The meat of the human body would of
course include the 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within a
man's bony little skull sufficing for a mind; and it's not all that difficult to
tamper with a brain and make its owner quite mindless.
The meaty parts of the human body are the source of a human being's
human nature and it isn't all that difficult to define. Webster's says its (1)
the ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that are common to most people,
and (2) the nature of humans; especially the fundamental dispositions and
traits of humans.
In a nutshell then: the flesh, as per Rom 8:13, can be concisely defined as
that which comes natural to an organic species of life
Ironically, when God finished assembling the cosmos with its various forms
of life, matter, and energy; He pronounced it all not just good; but "very"
good. In other words, God was satisfied that the human body came out just
exactly as He designed it to come out; but it didn't stay that way.
†. Rom 7:18 . . I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing: for to will is present with me
How did something that God once pronounced "very good" become no good?
Well; the answer to that has to be the forbidden fruit. Something in the
chemistry of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil caused permanent
damage to human DNA.
When people do something contrary to their own better judgment; it's very
common to hear them say "I don't know what came over me". Well; the
thing that came over them was their flesh doing what comes natural in spite
of how they might feel about it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #25
[font=Arial]-
Eternal Life
Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not the same.
Immortality is a physical kind of life that has to do with a superhuman body
impervious to age, death, and putrefaction.
Eternal life, on the other hand, is a spirit kind of life that has to do with the
very core of God's being; viz: His divine nature. If you can understand what
is meant by human nature, then you've got a handle on what is meant by
divine nature.
Christ had eternal life when he was here (John 5:26-27, 1John 1:1-2) but
according to Rom 6:9, he didn't obtain immorality till he rose from the dead.
Likewise; according to John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, and 1John 5:13,
Christ's believing followers have eternal life here and now. But according to
Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:51-53, they won't obtain immortality till their
resurrections.
Possession of eternal life isn't optional; no, it's a must.
†. John 4:24 . . God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in
spirit
Can people relate to a clam spirit-to-spirit? No; they can't, because a clam's
nature is foreign to human nature. In like manner: people cannot relate to
God spirit-to-spirit either because divine nature is foreign to human nature.
The difference in nature between God and humans is a pretty serious barrier
to communication. The remedy of course is to equip humans with eternal
life; and that's not a pipe dream, no, its quite possible.
†. John 17:23-3 . .You granted him authority over all people that he might
give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that
they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have
sent.
†. 2 Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to
life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His
own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious
and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become
partakers of the divine nature,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
Eternal Life
Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not the same.
Immortality is a physical kind of life that has to do with a superhuman body
impervious to age, death, and putrefaction.
Eternal life, on the other hand, is a spirit kind of life that has to do with the
very core of God's being; viz: His divine nature. If you can understand what
is meant by human nature, then you've got a handle on what is meant by
divine nature.
Christ had eternal life when he was here (John 5:26-27, 1John 1:1-2) but
according to Rom 6:9, he didn't obtain immorality till he rose from the dead.
Likewise; according to John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, and 1John 5:13,
Christ's believing followers have eternal life here and now. But according to
Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:51-53, they won't obtain immortality till their
resurrections.
Possession of eternal life isn't optional; no, it's a must.
†. John 4:24 . . God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in
spirit
Can people relate to a clam spirit-to-spirit? No; they can't, because a clam's
nature is foreign to human nature. In like manner: people cannot relate to
God spirit-to-spirit either because divine nature is foreign to human nature.
The difference in nature between God and humans is a pretty serious barrier
to communication. The remedy of course is to equip humans with eternal
life; and that's not a pipe dream, no, its quite possible.
†. John 17:23-3 . .You granted him authority over all people that he might
give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that
they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have
sent.
†. 2 Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to
life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His
own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious
and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become
partakers of the divine nature,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #26
[font=Arial]-
How Christ Is Related To Solomon
Q: Seeing as how Christ was virgin conceived; how did he get into Joseph's
genealogy as per the first chapter of Matthew?
A: At Gen 48:5-7, Jacob adopted his own two biological grandsons Manasseh
and Ephraim; thus installing them in positions equal in rank, honor, and
power to his twelve original sons, which had the effect of adding additional
children to Rachel's brood just as effectively as the children born of her maid
Bilhah-- Dan, and Naphtali.
Jacob's motive for adopting his son Joseph's two sons was in sympathy for
his deceased wife being cut off during her child-bearing years, which
subsequently prevented her from having any more children of her own.
Ephraim and Manasseh bring Rachel's total up to six: two of her own, two by
her maid Bilhah, and two by Joseph's wife Asenath.
Now, fast-forward to the New Testament where the angel of The Lord spoke
to Joseph in a dream and ordered him to take part in naming Mary's out-of
wedlock baby.
"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus" (Matt
1:21)
Joseph complied.
"And he gave him the name Jesus." (Matt 1:25)
So Christ went in the books as Joseph's son; because that's how it worked in
those days when a man stood with a woman to name her child.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
How Christ Is Related To Solomon
Q: Seeing as how Christ was virgin conceived; how did he get into Joseph's
genealogy as per the first chapter of Matthew?
A: At Gen 48:5-7, Jacob adopted his own two biological grandsons Manasseh
and Ephraim; thus installing them in positions equal in rank, honor, and
power to his twelve original sons, which had the effect of adding additional
children to Rachel's brood just as effectively as the children born of her maid
Bilhah-- Dan, and Naphtali.
Jacob's motive for adopting his son Joseph's two sons was in sympathy for
his deceased wife being cut off during her child-bearing years, which
subsequently prevented her from having any more children of her own.
Ephraim and Manasseh bring Rachel's total up to six: two of her own, two by
her maid Bilhah, and two by Joseph's wife Asenath.
Now, fast-forward to the New Testament where the angel of The Lord spoke
to Joseph in a dream and ordered him to take part in naming Mary's out-of
wedlock baby.
"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus" (Matt
1:21)
Joseph complied.
"And he gave him the name Jesus." (Matt 1:25)
So Christ went in the books as Joseph's son; because that's how it worked in
those days when a man stood with a woman to name her child.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Hell And The Grave
Post #27[font=Arial]-
Sheol/Hades
At his demise; Christ went to hades. (Acts 2:25-31)
A place he described as "in the heart of the earth" (Matt 12:40)
Christ's corpse wasn't interred in the heart of the earth. In point of fact, his
corpse wasn't even interred in the earth's soil. It was laid to rest on the
surface of the earth inside a rock tomb.
Acts 2:25-31 refers to Psalm 16:8-11. In that scripture the Hebrew word
sheol is used instead of haides; which means that haides and sheol are
talking about the same place; viz: they're interchangeable, so that whatever
is true about the one, is true about the other; ergo: if haides is in the heart
of the earth, then so is sheol.
Jonah went to sheol. (Jonah 2:2)
A place that he described as the roots of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)
Mountains are not rooted in the tummies of fishes. They're rooted in solid
earth.
Acts 2:25-31 speaks of Christ escaping corruption; viz: putrefaction.
The word used for putrefaction in Ps 16:8-11 is shachath, which is an
important element in the story of Jonah.
†. Jonah 2:6 . .Thou hast brought up my life from the pit, O Lord my God.
"pit" is translated from shachath; a common word in the Old Testament for
putrefaction; viz: Jonah 2:6 is the language of resurrection; which means
that at some time during his nautical adventure, Jonah was deceased.
Was Jonah ever alive in the fish? Yes, (Jonah 2:1). But was he alive the
whole three days and three nights? No; because in order for Jonah to be at
the roots of the mountains and in the tummy of the fish simultaneously, he
and his body had to part company; which is exactly what happened to
Christ. While his corpse was reposing on the surface of the earth, he was in
its heart.
The story of Jonah is very handy for explaining what was going on with
Christ between the time of his death and the time of his resurrection; and
it's also handy for standing up to folk who insist that hades and sheol refer
only to the grave.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
Sheol/Hades
At his demise; Christ went to hades. (Acts 2:25-31)
A place he described as "in the heart of the earth" (Matt 12:40)
Christ's corpse wasn't interred in the heart of the earth. In point of fact, his
corpse wasn't even interred in the earth's soil. It was laid to rest on the
surface of the earth inside a rock tomb.
Acts 2:25-31 refers to Psalm 16:8-11. In that scripture the Hebrew word
sheol is used instead of haides; which means that haides and sheol are
talking about the same place; viz: they're interchangeable, so that whatever
is true about the one, is true about the other; ergo: if haides is in the heart
of the earth, then so is sheol.
Jonah went to sheol. (Jonah 2:2)
A place that he described as the roots of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)
Mountains are not rooted in the tummies of fishes. They're rooted in solid
earth.
Acts 2:25-31 speaks of Christ escaping corruption; viz: putrefaction.
The word used for putrefaction in Ps 16:8-11 is shachath, which is an
important element in the story of Jonah.
†. Jonah 2:6 . .Thou hast brought up my life from the pit, O Lord my God.
"pit" is translated from shachath; a common word in the Old Testament for
putrefaction; viz: Jonah 2:6 is the language of resurrection; which means
that at some time during his nautical adventure, Jonah was deceased.
Was Jonah ever alive in the fish? Yes, (Jonah 2:1). But was he alive the
whole three days and three nights? No; because in order for Jonah to be at
the roots of the mountains and in the tummy of the fish simultaneously, he
and his body had to part company; which is exactly what happened to
Christ. While his corpse was reposing on the surface of the earth, he was in
its heart.
The story of Jonah is very handy for explaining what was going on with
Christ between the time of his death and the time of his resurrection; and
it's also handy for standing up to folk who insist that hades and sheol refer
only to the grave.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #28
[font=Arial]-
Hell vs Common Sense
I watched an educational series on NetFlix in September of 2014 called "The
Inexplicable Universe: Unsolved Mysteries" hosted by Neil deGrasse Tyson
Ph.D. director of the Hayden Planetarium. Mr. Tyson said, in so many words;
that in the study of Physics, one must sometimes abandon sense and accept
discoveries as they are no matter how contrary to logic they may seem.
The NASA teams that sent Pioneers, Voyagers and Mariners out to explore
the planets came to the very same conclusion: they learned to abandon their
logical expectations and instead expect the unexpected; and they
encountered plenty.
The discovery of the cosmos' accelerating expansion was very discouraging
for cosmologist Alan Sandage-- once a proponent of the theory that the
universe would eventually run out of explosive energy from the Big Bang
and gradually pull itself back together --called the discovery of the ever
increasing velocity of the expanding universe a terrible surprise. And of
course it is because the known laws of gravity, combined with common
sense, demand that the ballooning universe eventually slow down, stop
expanding, and shrink rather than picking up speed.
In the field of Christianity, as in the fields of Physics and planetary
exploration, faith believes what's revealed to it rather than only what makes
sense to it.
I readily admit that the idea of people existing in an altered state,
consciously suffering to time indefinite, makes no sense at all, and seems to
totally contradict the nature of a divine patron reputed to be kind, caring,
and sympathetic. But just as science admits to many unsolved mysteries; so
does Christianity. And there's no shame in that. The shame is in pretending
to have complete understanding of a supernatural entity that by its very
nature defies reason and common sense.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
Hell vs Common Sense
I watched an educational series on NetFlix in September of 2014 called "The
Inexplicable Universe: Unsolved Mysteries" hosted by Neil deGrasse Tyson
Ph.D. director of the Hayden Planetarium. Mr. Tyson said, in so many words;
that in the study of Physics, one must sometimes abandon sense and accept
discoveries as they are no matter how contrary to logic they may seem.
The NASA teams that sent Pioneers, Voyagers and Mariners out to explore
the planets came to the very same conclusion: they learned to abandon their
logical expectations and instead expect the unexpected; and they
encountered plenty.
The discovery of the cosmos' accelerating expansion was very discouraging
for cosmologist Alan Sandage-- once a proponent of the theory that the
universe would eventually run out of explosive energy from the Big Bang
and gradually pull itself back together --called the discovery of the ever
increasing velocity of the expanding universe a terrible surprise. And of
course it is because the known laws of gravity, combined with common
sense, demand that the ballooning universe eventually slow down, stop
expanding, and shrink rather than picking up speed.
In the field of Christianity, as in the fields of Physics and planetary
exploration, faith believes what's revealed to it rather than only what makes
sense to it.
I readily admit that the idea of people existing in an altered state,
consciously suffering to time indefinite, makes no sense at all, and seems to
totally contradict the nature of a divine patron reputed to be kind, caring,
and sympathetic. But just as science admits to many unsolved mysteries; so
does Christianity. And there's no shame in that. The shame is in pretending
to have complete understanding of a supernatural entity that by its very
nature defies reason and common sense.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #29
[font=Arial]-
Grace
†. 1Cor 1:3 . . Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord
Jesus Christ.
I seriously doubt the average rank and file pew warmer even knows what
grace is. I suspect that most are under the impression that grace is
somehow a quantifiable substance like butter and gasoline; but in regards to
God, grace is an abstract noun that expresses qualities apart from
substance.
The New Testament Greek word for "grace" is charis (khar'-ece); which
means: graciousness.
Webster's defines graciousness as: kind, courteous, inclined to good will,
generous, charitable, merciful, altruistic, compassionate, thoughtful, cordial,
affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive, considerate, and tactful.
Cordial stresses warmth and heartiness
Affable implies easy approachability and readiness to respond pleasantly to
conversation or requests or proposals
Genial stresses cheerfulness and even joviality
Sociable suggests a genuine liking for the companionship of others
Generous is characterized by a noble or forbearing spirit; viz: magnanimous,
kindly, and liberal in giving
Charitable means full of love for, and goodwill toward, others; viz:
benevolent, tolerant, and lenient.
Altruistic means unselfish regard for, or devotion to, the welfare of others;
viz: a desire to be of service to others for no other reason than it just feels
good to do so.
Tactful indicates a keen sense of what to do, or say, in order to maintain
good relations with others in order to resolve and/or avoid unnecessary
conflict.
Compassion defines a sympathetic awareness of others' distress, coupled
with a desire to alleviate it.
The Old Testament Hebrew word for grace is chen (khane); and means the
same as charis (e.g. Gen 6:8).
When you put all those lovely attributes together, you get a pretty good
picture of the bright side of God's personality; and the extent of His good will
towards the Corinthian church. There's a dark side too, and plenty of ill will;
but grace doesn't go there.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
Grace
†. 1Cor 1:3 . . Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord
Jesus Christ.
I seriously doubt the average rank and file pew warmer even knows what
grace is. I suspect that most are under the impression that grace is
somehow a quantifiable substance like butter and gasoline; but in regards to
God, grace is an abstract noun that expresses qualities apart from
substance.
The New Testament Greek word for "grace" is charis (khar'-ece); which
means: graciousness.
Webster's defines graciousness as: kind, courteous, inclined to good will,
generous, charitable, merciful, altruistic, compassionate, thoughtful, cordial,
affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive, considerate, and tactful.
Cordial stresses warmth and heartiness
Affable implies easy approachability and readiness to respond pleasantly to
conversation or requests or proposals
Genial stresses cheerfulness and even joviality
Sociable suggests a genuine liking for the companionship of others
Generous is characterized by a noble or forbearing spirit; viz: magnanimous,
kindly, and liberal in giving
Charitable means full of love for, and goodwill toward, others; viz:
benevolent, tolerant, and lenient.
Altruistic means unselfish regard for, or devotion to, the welfare of others;
viz: a desire to be of service to others for no other reason than it just feels
good to do so.
Tactful indicates a keen sense of what to do, or say, in order to maintain
good relations with others in order to resolve and/or avoid unnecessary
conflict.
Compassion defines a sympathetic awareness of others' distress, coupled
with a desire to alleviate it.
The Old Testament Hebrew word for grace is chen (khane); and means the
same as charis (e.g. Gen 6:8).
When you put all those lovely attributes together, you get a pretty good
picture of the bright side of God's personality; and the extent of His good will
towards the Corinthian church. There's a dark side too, and plenty of ill will;
but grace doesn't go there.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
-
WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Post #30
[font=Arial]-
Grace +
I picked up an interesting line from an exasperated father in the final
episode of Downton Abbey that goes like this:
"As my son, I love you, but I have tried, and failed, to like you."
The father who spoke that line wasn't a difficult man. He was actually a very
gracious man who had it up to here with his grown son's toxic personality.
That so reminds me of a passage in the book of John: here paraphrased a
bit:
"For God so loved the world, that He offered His only begotten son, that
whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did
not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world
should be rescued through him." (John 3:16-17)
Yes, God loves His human creations; enough to even sacrifice His only son's
life and limb to protect them; but I honestly believe that he has tried, and
failed, to like them. For example:
"Now the Lord observed the extent of the people's wickedness, and he saw
that all their thoughts were consistently and totally evil. So the Lord was
sorry he had ever made them. It broke his heart. And the Lord said: I will
completely wipe out this human race that I have created. Yes, and I will
destroy all the animals and birds, too. I am sorry I ever made them." (Gen
6:5-7)
Bottom line: God doesn't owe humanity anything. God's offering of His only
son wasn't an obligation; it was a courtesy. Far from deserving kindness,
humanity deserves the cold shoulder. But God, being the sensitive person
that he is, willing to go the extra mile, still finds it in Himself to extend
humanity an opportunity to turn itself around and give Him cause to like
them instead of humanity, with its overall toxic personality, always making it
impossible for Him to do so.
In too many Christian minds, it is truly believed that a sinner's salvation
rests upon the grace of God; but in most minds that is nothing in the world
but a mental spin to mask their true belief that it is by the grace of God that
they now have a chance to earn their salvation, where before, they had no
chance to earn it.
So when you strip away the spin, you're right back to the reality that the
plans of salvation enjoying the widest acceptance are essentially merit
systems based upon personal performance rather than solely upon the
kindness and generosity of God's altruistic nature. Thus they rule out the
principle of courtesy, and stick to the old rule of proving one's worthiness.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
Grace +
I picked up an interesting line from an exasperated father in the final
episode of Downton Abbey that goes like this:
"As my son, I love you, but I have tried, and failed, to like you."
The father who spoke that line wasn't a difficult man. He was actually a very
gracious man who had it up to here with his grown son's toxic personality.
That so reminds me of a passage in the book of John: here paraphrased a
bit:
"For God so loved the world, that He offered His only begotten son, that
whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did
not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world
should be rescued through him." (John 3:16-17)
Yes, God loves His human creations; enough to even sacrifice His only son's
life and limb to protect them; but I honestly believe that he has tried, and
failed, to like them. For example:
"Now the Lord observed the extent of the people's wickedness, and he saw
that all their thoughts were consistently and totally evil. So the Lord was
sorry he had ever made them. It broke his heart. And the Lord said: I will
completely wipe out this human race that I have created. Yes, and I will
destroy all the animals and birds, too. I am sorry I ever made them." (Gen
6:5-7)
Bottom line: God doesn't owe humanity anything. God's offering of His only
son wasn't an obligation; it was a courtesy. Far from deserving kindness,
humanity deserves the cold shoulder. But God, being the sensitive person
that he is, willing to go the extra mile, still finds it in Himself to extend
humanity an opportunity to turn itself around and give Him cause to like
them instead of humanity, with its overall toxic personality, always making it
impossible for Him to do so.
In too many Christian minds, it is truly believed that a sinner's salvation
rests upon the grace of God; but in most minds that is nothing in the world
but a mental spin to mask their true belief that it is by the grace of God that
they now have a chance to earn their salvation, where before, they had no
chance to earn it.
So when you strip away the spin, you're right back to the reality that the
plans of salvation enjoying the widest acceptance are essentially merit
systems based upon personal performance rather than solely upon the
kindness and generosity of God's altruistic nature. Thus they rule out the
principle of courtesy, and stick to the old rule of proving one's worthiness.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=[/font]
