cnorman18 wrote:earendil wrote:cnorman18 wrote: The OT says no such thing or anything like it. In Jewish tradition, the standards are higher for Jews than for non-Jews. We have 613 commandments; you guys have seven. If it turns out that we ARE talking about who gets into Heaven, Gentiles will have an easier time of it than we will. We don't get preferred seating.
The standards are higher for jews? How can you write this and not realize the intrinsic racism you are promoting?
In all the religions in the world, only in judaism can you be born so. If that is not racism, then what is?
Don't even bother to respond, because you will only make excuses.....and if you don't see the intrinsic racism of your above comments, then you are sick beyond repair.
Sorry..I don't mean to be rude...but sometimes hard situations require hard words.
Thanks to my friends Joey and Zzyzx for their responses to this load of cr- er, message. I have a couple of things to say myself.
First, let's dispose of the "racism" idea. The Jews are not a "race." Never have been. There are Jews of every ethnicity on Earth; Caucasian Jews, Asian Jews, Black Jews, Arab Jews, Native American Jews, and so on. I personally know several Black and Latino Jews, and several of my students were Jews from India who were ethnically Indian. Historically, people who refer to Jews as a "race" have usually been antisemites, most notably the Nazis. Unfortunately, the error is a common one even among those who do not hate Jews.
Why are the Jews not a race? Because "race" denotes ethnicity, and that cannot be changed. One cannot "convert" and become African-American or ethnically Chinese; but one
can become a Jew. I am ethnically Caucasian, an American of Scots descent: I am also fully and entirely a Jew, by Jewish law, as Jewish as Moses or Aaron.
According to the Talmud, there have been converts to Judaism
from the time of Abraham. Who was the first convert? According to tradition, it was Abraham himself. Moses married a Midianite woman; Joseph married an Egyptian. All of their children were Jewish anyway. Since we do not keep track of whose ancestors are ethnically Jewish and whose are not, and never have, the Jews cannot be said to be s "race" and that has been true for three thousand years.
Ancient Jews actively sought converts, as noted by Josephus, who remarked on the large number of converts to Judaism in the Roman Empire; some estimates say that the percentage of Jews in Rome was as high as 10%. The NT speaks of Jews who would "sail the seas and cross whole countries to win one convert" (Matthew 23:15).
In the fourth century, though, conversion to Judaism became a capital crime. The Roman Catholic Church confirmed this penalty on numerous occasions (which proves that conversions were still taking place anyway, BTW). Conversion to Judaism became a capital crime in the Muslim world as well, and in many Muslim countries remains so to this day.
By the late Middle Ages, the Jewish community was actively discouraging converts. The danger to the converts and to the community itself were too great. Still, there were those who defied the ban; in the late 18th century, a Polish nobleman, Count Valentine Potocki, chose to be burned at the stake rather than recant his conversion and deny that he was then Jewish (by Jewish law, a convert is instantly as Jewish as any born Jew).
It is estimated that five thousand to ten thousand non-Jews convert to Judaism every year in the US alone. So much for Jews being a "race."
If one is born Jewish, though, isn't one compelled to remain Jewish? In Jewish law, once a Jew, always a Jew - unless one becomes a Christian, a Muslim or worships some other God. Then the situation is less clear. In any case, if you don't want to consider yourself a Jew any longer, no one will try to make you do it. It's estimated that about half of every generation of Jews is lost to secular assimilation or conversion to other faiths (mostly the former). If you're a Jew, the doors are not locked. Don't let 'em hit you in the butt on the way out.
Point two; "Racism" normally entails negative opinions or poor treatment of those outside the group, no? Consider this, from the often-derided book of Leviticus: "The stranger [i.e., non-Jew] who resides with you shall be as one of your citizens; you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt." [19:34)
This injunction is repeated many times in the Torah in various forms (Deut. 10:19; Ex. 22:20; Deut. 24:17-18; Num. 15:15) and is considered one of the most important precepts in Judaism. The long and intense involvement of Jews in human rights and civil rights movements worldwide is generally traced back to these teachings.
In Judaism, it is considered a
greater sin to cheat or mistreat a non-Jew than a fellow Jew; it is called a
khillul ha-Shem, a "bringing of shame upon the Name [of God]."
Is there another religion or nation or ethnicity on Earth that
absolutely mandates good and humane and charitable treatment of those "outside the group" without reference to proselytization or recruitment?
Sorry. The Jews are no more "racist" than the Marines. Yes, we think it's harder to be a Jew than not; that's one of the ways we discourage converts. People should know what they're getting into. But still, anybody can join, and anybody can leave.
Don't bother to respond; you would only be making excuses.
