Hell's Immigrants

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According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

• Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

• Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

• Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Sept 18, 2017 @ 11:36 pm New York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 325,908,667 with a death rate of approximately one every 12 seconds; which translates to an average of 7,200 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 5,234 of the current daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,670 American adults transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 111 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think: by the time CBS completes its half hour evening news report, a bare-bones minimum of 55 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,670 condemned souls per 325,908,667 population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global population of 7,422,223,068 people, would suggest something like 60,806 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 2,534 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity in roughly 20 hours and 44 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this morning, then by 02:44 am tomorrow, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher.

Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes, storm surges, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution, a mission to Mars, freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, the price of oil, student debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls, outsourcing, overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain, road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage, Obamacare, blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or President Donald Trump's tweets.

If Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A, KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The slaughtering and the butchering never stop.
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â—� Luke 13:4-5 . . And what about the eighteen men who died when a tower of Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will likewise perish.

The koiné Greek word for "tower" in that passage is purgos (poor'-gos) which is an ambiguous word that can mean not only an isolated structure like a skyscraper; but also a special battlement which protrudes from the face of a castle's curtain wall-- consisting of crenellations, merlons, and machicolations --providing occupants a tactical advantage for observing and defending the curtain wall's exterior face. Sometimes though, purgos were simply architectural facades that made otherwise insipid stone walls aesthetically pleasing to the eye.

In the days prior to steel reinforcing bar and structural steel beams, purgos (which were often constructed of either stones or bricks or wood) weren't all that stable, and sometimes crumbled; thus detaching themselves from the curtain wall like an old swallow's nest; resulting in pieces raining down on whoever happened to be standing below. The tower depicted in Luke was possibly a decorative part of an architectural enclosure surrounding the pool of Siloam. (cf. John 9:7)

The people who were killed when that tower collapsed, weren't killed by the hand of God. No, they were just simply in the wrong place at the wrong time; viz: it was just dumb luck. It's like when people plan all month for a camping trip in the mountains. Upon arrival, they set up camp; and after lunch, walk a hiking trail. Just then, a tree limb, that's been silently growing in the forest for who knows how many years, suddenly decides to snap off and fall to earth right then; subsequently killing one of the campers just as they walk under it.

One minute earlier and it would have missed. One minute later and it would have missed. But no, the limb falls right on cue as if the forces of nature conspired to hold that tree limb in place till just the right moment; waiting for that one specific person to walk under it.

In a similar incident Friday, Feb 19, 2010 --a centuries-old Mosque minaret in Meknes Morocco collapsed and fell into a crowd of worshippers during prayer time, killing 41.

Saturday, June 27, 2010, a 6-month-old baby girl was killed and her mother seriously injured when the pair were struck by a falling tree branch in New York City's Central Park Zoo. The girl's father was taking their picture near the sea lion exhibit when a branch above them suddenly snapped off and fell.

On Tuesday, July 3, 2007; nineteen year-old Ramiro Gonzalez was returning home to Nyssa Oregon from a week-end honeymoon in northern California with his bride Idalia asleep in the back seat when their 1997 Pontiac Grand Am hit a cow twenty miles east of Burns. The Pontiac went off the road, through a fence, and burst into flames. Idalia escaped with only minor injuries, but Ramiro died at the Ste. Charles Medical Center in Bend the very next day.

Ramiro and his bride didn't get to live in a home of their own for even one single minute of their marriage-- never had a baby, never joined the PTA, never saved for college, never went to ballet lessons, nor to soccer or little league, never went on family picnics, never took home movies and photos at Christmas, Easter, or birthdays, never went to the beach and built sand castles --no, their entire future, and all their dreams of family life, were shattered in an instant by a lame-brained bovine; and Ramiro wasn't even 20 years old yet.

March 20, 2008; fifty-seven year old Judy Kay Zagorski, of Pigeon, Michigan, was sitting in the front seat of her father's boat going 25 knots on the Atlantic Ocean side of Vaca Key in Florida, when a Spotted Eagle Ray, with a wingspan of 5 to 6 feet; leaped up out of the water-- for who knows what reason --and collided with Zagorski, knocking her backwards onto the deck of the boat. She died from the impact. Judy's sister, standing next to her, was not injured.

On a November morning in 1998, Alan Pakula climbed into his Volvo station wagon and began the 100-mile drive from Manhattan to his Long Island house. The acclaimed movie director of Sophie's Choice, All The President's Men, and The Pelican Brief, had made that trip countless times with no incident.

As the 70 year-old Pakula neared exit 49 on the Long Island Expressway just before noon, the tires of a vehicle ahead of him flipped a 7-foot piece of steel rod into the air. Within seconds, the rod shot through Pakula's windshield, smashing into his forehead, killing him almost instantly.

Death often comes when people least expect it. As a rule, they don't usually get up in the morning planning it to be their last day on earth. The 169,752 killed, and 127,294 listed as missing in more than eleven countries by the tsunami of 2004, were taken by surprise, and given no warning it was to be their last day on earth.

The 2,829 people who perished in a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, and the 189 who died in the Pentagon, didn't go in to work expecting their lives to end before lunch that day. No, people's lives often end while they still have obligations and commitments, aspirations, things to do, places to go, and people to see; when a car accident, train wreck, act of nature, plane crash, crime, heart attack, or stroke puts an abrupt end to every plan they ever made.

Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010, a 7.0 earthquake struck Port au Prince Haiti right out of the blue subsequently causing the loss of more than 200,000 lives. A similar act of nature on March 11, 2011, left 25,000 dead and/or missing in Japan.

Okeechobee woman Dawn Johnston, 38, was killed Wednesday June 30, 2010 after part of a portable toilet crashed through her car's windshield. Dawn was driving south on SR 15 shortly after 11 a.m. when two portable toilets fell from the trailer of a pickup truck traveling north,. The portable toilets shattered when they hit the road, and a piece of one of them crashed through the woman's windshield, striking her. Johnston's car then veered off the road and collided with a tree.

A rain-saturated hillside above the Stillaguamish River on the outskirts of the rural town of Oso in the State of Washington gave way March 22, 2014 leaving behind a current death toll of 41 souls. The landslide happened to suddenly and so rapidly that nobody saw it coming and/or had the slightest chance of getting out of the way. Listed among the dead and missing was a four-month old infant.

Freak incidents like those listed above can happen to anybody in the form of a stray bullet from a drive-by, lightening strike, gas explosion, choking on a piece of meat, electrocution, earthquake, a drunk driver, a fall in the bath tub; bricks dropped from an overpass, or any number of out-of-the-blue surprises. I don't think Christ was saying that repentance will protect people from dying in an unexpected incident, but rather, that if they don't start thinking about the afterlife now, while they have the chance; then they risk being caught off guard by sudden death where there will be no time to think; and they'll find themselves suddenly thrust into the afterlife a lot sooner than they ever expected.

I was taught in catechism that repentance always means sorrow and regret for one's sins; but I don't think that's what Christ was getting at.

The koiné Greek word for "repent" in his statement is metanoeo (met-an-o-eh'-o) which means: to think differently; viz: to reconsider-- in other words: to change one's mind and/or change one's direction.

I was also taught in catechism that repentance and confession of one's sins are joined at the hip; so to speak. But confession of sins is not the emphasis in Luke 13:4-5; metanoeo is the emphasis.

Christ preceded the statement recorded in Luke 13:4-5 with another like it.

Luke 13:1-3 . .There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them: Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

The record doesn't explain why Pilate executed those men in particular; nor even where the executions took place. But just for brevity's sake, I'll assume for now that those particular men were known insurrectionists, and the executions took place on the grounds of the Temple compound in Jerusalem while the men were there to worship. In other words: the men were pounced upon in a place they would never suspect; and Pilate's soldiers sprung on the Galileans so suddenly and so efficiently that the men had no chance to either escape or to defend themselves.

It's at a time like that when your religion of choice had better be the right one because you'll have neither time nor opportunity to reconsider and switch to another.

â—� Ecc 9:10-12 . . For the time of mischance comes to all. And a man cannot even know his time. As fishes are enmeshed in a fatal net, and as birds are trapped in a snare, so men are caught at the time of calamity, when it comes upon them without warning.

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[JP Cusick]

My point is that humanity is being well prepared so that we need not fear.

Our Father wants every person to be able to embrace pain and suffering because that is needed in order to live eternally.

The concept of wanting an easy life of pleasure and joy in Heaven is not a way to last forever, but our extreme sorrow and past sins are intended to keep us humble throughout all of eternity.

Going to Hell is going to be the best place for the children of God to go.

[ttruscott]

But there is no physical distinction - we are all physical children of God.

Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children because of their defect but are a perverse and crooked generation. OR: ...their defect is that they are not HIS children...

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God.

Ignoring scripture because it doesn't fit your own understanding is not unorthodox, it is bad form. At least try to answer these verses or say why they are irrelevant or your low credibility falls even more.

[JP Cusick]

Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children because of their defect but are a perverse and crooked generation. OR: ...their defect is that they are not HIS children...

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God.

Ignoring scripture because it doesn't fit your own understanding is not unorthodox, it is bad form. At least try to answer these verses or say why they are irrelevant or your low credibility falls even more.

It has already been answered through your own words - that there are spiritual distinctions, as being a spiritual father or as being not the spiritual children.

See Genesis 3:20 " And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. "

We are all physically children of God.

[ttruscott]

Our Father wants every person to be able to embrace pain and suffering because that is needed in order to live eternally.

Pain and suffering are only 'needed' as a response to evil. GOD had no need for evil nor suffering and death in HIS purpose for our creation. To say HE does would seem to be blasphemous...

The holy elect angels have an eternal life without pain and suffering because they never sinned. Only sinners suffer and die! Though GOD created all for HIS good pleasure, GOD TAKES NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF THE WICKED, proving HE did not create us to suffer and die. HE has no use for death except to banish the eternally evil from HIS reality.

Therefore I must deny your theology as narrow sighted...

[ttruscott]

See Genesis 3:20 " And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. "

We are all physically children of God.

That only makes us the creation of GOD, not HIS children as Deut says. You mean to be literal? All living then means she was the mother of everything from viruses to mammoths...you are led by your theology, it does not grow from the Scripture.

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"Right Back Atcha"

I once heard President Obama reply to criticism with almost those exact same words; viz: he didn't deny the truth of the criticism, but instead employed the age-old tactic of accusing his critic of the very same things; which, I guess in his mind; somehow mitigated his own culpability; but the honorable response would have been for him to man-up and admit his conduct was unbecoming rather than stoop to recriminations.

It's very common for people to respond to criticism the same way Mr. Obama did. It's all the same as saying: Who are you to talk? Well; regardless of who someone is to talk, if the criticism is true; then it stands; viz: recriminations are futile. All they do is pull someone down with you so you don't go down alone.

I predict there's going to be a quite a bit of resentment and indignation at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 when the dead see people in white who they know to be guilty of the very same things for which they will be sentenced to the reservoir of flaming sulfur.

Human nature is funny. If I criticize a tree, it doesn't react. If I criticize a spider; it doesn't react. If I criticize a Guinea pig, it doesn't react. If I criticize a parakeet, it doesn't react. But if I criticize an h.sapiens; it bristles and becomes defensive. It's a curious behavior.

So; how might I describe human nature? I think I could accurately describe it as both judgmental and defensive.

â—� Rom 2:15 . .Their thoughts the meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 7 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 425,642 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.

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[JP Cusick]

Pain and suffering are only 'needed' as a response to evil. GOD had no need for evil nor suffering and death in HIS purpose for our creation. To say HE does would seem to be blasphemous...

Yes the righteous has to be able to respond to evil and to endure evil - so yes the righteous are the ones who must endure pain and suffering and extreme sorrows in order to live for eternity.

That is a BIG part of why Jesus had to be crucified and treated worse than others.

See Isaiah 52:14 " As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: "

We all get to learn the pain and suffering now in this life - so then it will carry onward with each of us into eternity.

The holy elect angels have an eternal life without pain and suffering because they never sinned. Only sinners suffer and die! Though GOD created all for HIS good pleasure, GOD TAKES NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF THE WICKED, proving HE did not create us to suffer and die. HE has no use for death except to banish the eternally evil from HIS reality.

You are missing the sequence of events - because first the Angels did sin as there was war in Heaven, but the Spirit life could not feel pain or die and so the Spirits and Angels did not comprehend the horrible significance of their hostile rebellion, and so after that God created humanity in order to save both the physical world and to save the Spirit world as they too need salvation from the wrath of sin, and because humanity will know about suffering and pain then we will carry that salvation into the spirit world, see 1 Corinthians 6:3 " Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? "

Sinners do suffer and die but theirs is not a sacrifice - while the righteous will suffer and die for the sinners.

Therefore I must deny your theology as narrow sighted...

I believe mine is far more of heresy and heretical.

Being narrow sighted with the scriptures is a compliment = "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14

[WebersHome]

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â—� Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to enter the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell; where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.

Christ's instructions didn't reveal anything new. He simply reiterated information that had already been released by an Old Testament prophet roughly 700 years before.

â—� Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me-- speaks the Lord. And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against Me: their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

That rather grisly scene depicts a sort of tourist attraction similar to the La Brea Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles where the remains of prehistoric creatures, excavated from ancient asphalt deposits, are on display.

A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable. The 4-inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176° Fahrenheit; hot enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him to create worms that like it even warmer.

Q: The human body is organic. So then, how can it survive in flame as perpetual nourishment for those worms?

A: The laws of nature are not absolute. They were created in the first chapter of Genesis to control the behavior of created matter, and as such are easily manipulated by the one who designed them.

For example: fire totally incinerated the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah but left unscathed a desert shrub that Moses encountered in the Sinai outback while tending his father-in-law's sheep. (Ex 3:1-3)

Compare Dan 3:8-27 where a blistering hot fire didn't even so much as singe the clothing of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego while slaying the guards that threw them in the furnace.

Q: Won't the worms eventually exhaust their food supply?

A: There are incidents in the Bible where small amounts of food stuffs were miraculously multiplied. One example is 1Kgs 17:8-16 where a tiny bit of flour and oil nourished Elijah and a widow woman, and her son, for a good many days during a time of prolonged drought.

Another incident is at 2Kgs 4:1-7 where a certain widow's husband died and left her deeply in debt. God multiplied her last pot of oil sufficiently to sell enough to pay off her debts, thereby saving her two sons from slavery.

No; I'm pretty sure those worms won't need to worry about running out of human remains with which to sustain themselves.

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[JP Cusick]

their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.

A worm that thrives in flame is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable.

The Bible gives its own definition of words and of doctrines.

In the Bible those are blessed worms, see below:

God gives help to the worms, see Isaiah 41:
14 " Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, "

Jesus called Himself as a worm, and we are not to despise worms, see here in Psalm 22:
6 " But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. "

And this where the worm destroys the body but the person gets saved = Job 19:
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
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So when I go to Hell then I too will be the worm, and in that fire of Hell we will all be cleaned and purified, as told in 1 Corinthians 3:15-16

God must save every person or else His salvation would be a failure, and it is God's will that "all people come to repentance", see this "the works shall be burned" while "no person is to parish", in 2 Peter 3:9-10