Compassionate Islam?

[bernee51]

Is this yet another example of Allah the Compassionate...

Pakistani mother of three sentenced to death for blasphemy for supposedly blaspheming the "Prophet" after her offers of bringing water to Muslims was rejected on the grounds that she was a Christian.

1. Should Islam throw of the yoke of such ridiculous laws as as blasphemy? Can it?

2. Where is the compassion and acceptance within this medieval abomination of a beleif system?

[Murad]

Is this yet another example of Allah the Compassionate...

What does God have to do with this?
I dont think you mocking Quranic verses is helping you here?

Pakistani mother of three sentenced to death for blasphemy for supposedly blaspheming the "Prophet" after her offers of bringing water to Muslims was rejected on the grounds that she was a Christian.

That is the most ridiculous story i've heard; why on earth is a non-muslim touching a water bowl blasphemy?
Its a case of idiotic judges with with pseudo sharia.

1. Should Islam throw of the yoke of such ridiculous laws as as blasphemy? Can it?

You should not restrict Islam to Pakistan. There are many schools of thought within Islamic Theology; that all have different fatwa(religious opinion).
I suggest you research into the schools of thought; and see why many people disagree with Osama Bin Laden.
Sharia varies; currently there is no absolute Sharia; go compare Indonesia's Sharia to Saudi Arabia's.
That is why we have such a thing as 'Schools of Thought'.
Once the Khilafah re-emerges; then true Sharia will be established.

Islamic jurists later formulated the concept that all classes were subject to the law of the land, and no person is above the law; officials and private citizens alike have a duty to obey the same law. Furthermore, a Qadi (Islamic judge) was not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of religion, race, colour, kinship or prejudice. In a number of cases, Caliphs had to appear before judges as they prepared to render their verdict.[56]

2. Where is the compassion and acceptance within this medieval abomination of a beleif system?

Dont judge Islam for what man has made it; look at the history of Islam; research the Golden age.
Under the Islamic Khilafah; Jews & Christians were able to live in peace.
Now compare that to the muslims living under the crusades; or muslims living under ancient Jewish rule.

Medieval Islamic world

In the early centuries of the Islamic Caliphate, the Islamic law allowed citizens to freely express their views, including criticism of Islam and religious authorities, without fear of persecution.[14][15][16][17] As such, there have been several notable Muslim critics and skeptics of Islam that arose from within the Islamic world itself.

[bernee51]

Is this yet another example of Allah the Compassionate...

What does God have to do with this?

Obviously god has no input whatsover in this.

I dont think you mocking Quranic verses is helping you here?

I don't need any help with this. Mocking the indefensible is fair IMHO.

Pakistani mother of three sentenced to death for blasphemy for supposedly blaspheming the "Prophet" after her offers of bringing water to Muslims was rejected on the grounds that she was a Christian.

That is the most ridiculous story i've heard; why on earth is a non-muslim touching a water bowl blasphemy?
Its a case of idiotic judges with with pseudo sharia.

Are you claiming hey are not 'true muslims'(tm)

Once the Khilafah re-emerges; then true Sharia will be established.

Sort of like 'after the rapture'? Given the internal and external divisiveness of ethnocentric mythic belief systems I would not recommedn hoding your breath waiting fo rit to come about.

Islamic jurists later formulated the concept that all classes were subject to the law of the land, and no person is above the law; officials and private citizens alike have a duty to obey the same law. Furthermore, a Qadi (Islamic judge) was not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of religion, race, colour, kinship or prejudice. In a number of cases, Caliphs had to appear before judges as they prepared to render their verdict.[56]

So in your Islamic Khilafah paradise I will be free to call Mohammed a fake, not a prophet and a manipulative war mongering paedophile without any fear of consequence.

2. Where is the compassion and acceptance within this medieval abomination of a beleif system?

Dont judge Islam for what man has made it; look at the history of Islam; research the Golden age.

Just like the 'golden age' of christianity. IF ONLY all mankind lived as the early christinas - those 'closest' to the 'true message' of Christ.

Under the Islamic Khilafah; Jews & Christians were able to live in peace.
Now compare that to the muslims living under the crusades; or muslims living under ancient Jewish rule.

What and why did it change?

[Murad]

Are you claiming hey are not 'true muslims'(tm)

I cant claim any; as it comes down to interpretation. Sunnis have a different interpretation to Shias; Taliban has a different interpretation to Al-Qaeda; Indonesia has a different interpretation to Saudi Arabia.
What we do know; by looking at history, Islamic critisizm was popular; and it was popular within the Islamic Empire(khilafah).

Sort of like 'after the rapture'? Given the internal and external divisiveness of ethnocentric mythic belief systems I would not recommedn hoding your breath waiting fo rit to come about.

Unlike the rapture; the Khilafah did exist previously, & it has been recorded by historians; and it was only abolished on March 3, 1924 (thats under a century ago)
When it re-emerges, it will fulfill the Islamic Prophecy; & true sharia will be established.

So in your Islamic Khilafah paradise I will be free to call Mohammed a fake, not a prophet and a manipulative war mongering paedophile without any fear of consequence.

No ofcourse not.
Your allowed to critisize him & reject his prophethood; but your not allowed to swear/mock at a dead man.
If you want to be able to swear at a dead man; the Islamic constitution must be amended by the caliph. Which i highly doubt will even happen in a dream.

What and why did it change?

In the world war; the khilafah collapsed & the middle easter nations were born(iraq,iran,turkey,saudi arabia,syria etc..).
The people of these countries had their own idea's & perceptions regarding Sharia Law. So, true sharia cannot be established unless it is put in place by the Khilafah.

[bernee51]

Are you claiming hey are not 'true muslims'(tm)

I cant claim any; as it comes down to interpretation. Sunnis have a different interpretation to Shias; Taliban has a different interpretation to Al-Qaeda; Indonesia has a different interpretation to Saudi Arabia.
What we do know; by looking at history, Islamic critisizm was popular; and it was popular within the Islamic Empire(khilafah).

So who is correct in their interpretations...and why?

If one of these groups claims that the Khilafah as you see it is an abomination to Islam and their version is the correct interpretation...why are they wrong and your right?

Sort of like 'after the rapture'? Given the internal and external divisiveness of ethnocentric mythic belief systems I would not recommedn hoding your breath waiting fo rit to come about.

Unlike the rapture; the Khilafah did exist previously, & it has been recorded by historians; and it was only abolished on March 3, 1924 (thats under a century ago)
When it re-emerges, it will fulfill the Islamic Prophecy; & true sharia will be established.

And restore it to what? The 'Massacres of the Khilafah'

So in your Islamic Khilafah paradise I will be free to call Mohammed a fake, not a prophet and a manipulative war mongering paedophile without any fear of consequence.

No ofcourse not.
Your allowed to critisize him & reject his prophethood; but your not allowed to swear/mock at a dead man.
If you want to be able to swear at a dead man; the Islamic constitution must be amended by the caliph. Which i highly doubt will even happen in a dream.

So I cannot safely claim then that Mohammed is not a prophet, Jesus is not a prophet, Allah is a conception of man and that the Koran is a book written by man.

Can I safely and openly be an atheist in the Islamic state?

What and why did it change?

In the world war; the khilafah collapsed & the middle easter nations were born(iraq,iran,turkey,saudi arabia,syria etc..).
The people of these countries had their own idea's & perceptions regarding Sharia Law. So, true sharia cannot be established unless it is put in place by the Khilafah.

Again we come down to interpretation. If the Wahhabis beieve they hold the 'truth' of Islam and will die/kill to purge Islam of what they consider impurities - what hope the Shia or other Sunni?

In this 'battle of the sects' does the victor get to write history and form a Khilafah, while the losers hold that the prophecy is yet to be fulilled and suffer under their dream?

[Kuan]

Are you claiming hey are not 'true muslims'(tm)

I cant claim any; as it comes down to interpretation. Sunnis have a different interpretation to Shias; Taliban has a different interpretation to Al-Qaeda; Indonesia has a different interpretation to Saudi Arabia.
What we do know; by looking at history, Islamic critisizm was popular; and it was popular within the Islamic Empire(khilafah).

So who is correct in their interpretations...and why?

I would like to point out that asking which one of the different groups is correct is like asking you which sect of christianity is right.

[Murad]

So who is correct in their interpretations...and why?

By comparison(to history); it seems Indonesia is somewhat closer to the Khilafah than the other countries.
But there is not a single islamic country that follows the Sharia that was practised by the Khilafah.

If one of these groups claims that the Khilafah as you see it is an abomination to Islam and their version is the correct interpretation...why are they wrong and your right?

I doubt they see the Khilafah as an abomination to Islam; i havn't met a single muslim that does, and i doubt you can be considered a muslim if you do.
Because there is currently no caliph; that basically destroys the Sharia from the top, so in a sense, there is no country in the world that follows Sharia Law; because for a Khilafah(A nation with Sharia) to exist; it must have a caliph.
(Its in the Islamic Khilafah Constitution)

And restore it to what? The 'Massacres of the Khilafah'

Not massacres, peace.
Warfare is a part of human history, it happens with or without islam; with religion or without religion.
For example the armenians massacred the ottoman turks, and the ottomon turks massacred the armenians; there was conquest for land within the middle east; thus deaths are inevitable when two seperate nations are at war.
One of the main reasons for the Khilafah's abolishment was the constant invasions from europe; ofcourse i dont blame the european countries for the downfall of the Khilafah, its warfare afterall; the nature of warfare is there will be casualties & there will be losses, no matter what side your on.

So in your Islamic Khilafah paradise I will be free to call Mohammed a fake, not a prophet and a manipulative war mongering paedophile without any fear of consequence.

No ofcourse not.
Your allowed to critisize him & reject his prophethood; but your not allowed to swear/mock at a dead man.
If you want to be able to swear at a dead man; the Islamic constitution must be amended by the caliph. Which i highly doubt will even happen in a dream.

So I cannot safely claim then that Mohammed is not a prophet, Jesus is not a prophet, Allah is a conception of man and that the Koran is a book written by man.

Can I safely and openly be an atheist in the Islamic state?

Yes you can be all of the above; but there is a small catch that im sure you wont like.
Non muslims pay an additional tax called Jizya.

From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes."[6] In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and the zakat(charity) taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.[7][8][9]

What and why did it change?

In the world war; the khilafah collapsed & the middle easter nations were born(iraq,iran,turkey,saudi arabia,syria etc..).
The people of these countries had their own idea's & perceptions regarding Sharia Law. So, true sharia cannot be established unless it is put in place by the Khilafah.

Again we come down to interpretation. If the Wahhabis beieve they hold the 'truth' of Islam and will die/kill to purge Islam of what they consider impurities - what hope the Shia or other Sunni?

There is truth in what you say, but you must not stereotype muslims like most people tend to do.
Sure the taliban/al-qaeda; 'ideology/perception/interpretation/belief' deviates from mainstream Islam; the same way protestants deviate from the catholic church; the same way messianic jews deviate from judaism etc.. etc..

Usually its pseudo doctrine that is fed into the minds of young muslims by tribal leaders & elders; for example the taliban see death as the only means of punishment permittable; and poisonous gas killings of school girls is considered 'Jihad'.
If you compare that type of ideology with the majority of the Islamic Scholars(past & present); you will see a huge difference in belief.

In this 'battle of the sects' does the victor get to write history and form a Khilafah, while the losers hold that the prophecy is yet to be fulilled and suffer under their dream?

I think this statement applies to the Sunni-Shia conflict; they both have a different idea on who the mahdi(restorer of Islam) will be.
But no, there is no prophecy that one sect will wait to be fulfilled, because there is a global belief that there will be 1 man(mahdi) that will emerge to restore Islam(Khilafah) several years before the descension of Jesus Christ.
The mahdi will erase confusion thus will destroy all the false doctrines about him; and the truth will prevail.

[bernee51]

So who is correct in their interpretations...and why?

By comparison(to history); it seems Indonesia is somewhat closer to the Khilafah than the other countries.
But there is not a single islamic country that follows the Sharia that was practised by the Khilafah.

So thre is no rom for growth and development of the 'philosophy' of Islam.

If one of these groups claims that the Khilafah as you see it is an abomination to Islam and their version is the correct interpretation...why are they wrong and your right?

I doubt they see the Khilafah as an abomination to Islam; i havn't met a single muslim that does, and i doubt you can be considered a muslim if you do.
Because there is currently no caliph; that basically destroys the Sharia from the top, so in a sense, there is no country in the world that follows Sharia Law; because for a Khilafah(A nation with Sharia) to exist; it must have a caliph.
(Its in the Islamic Khilafah Constitution)

So you favour a theocracy...a dictatorship based on the interpretation of a religious text.

And restore it to what? The 'Massacres of the Khilafah'

Not massacres, peace.
Warfare is a part of human history, it happens with or without islam; with religion or without religion.
For example the armenians massacred the ottoman turks, and the ottomon turks massacred the armenians; there was conquest for land within the middle east; thus deaths are inevitable when two seperate nations are at war.
One of the main reasons for the Khilafah's abolishment was the constant invasions from europe; ofcourse i dont blame the european countries for the downfall of the Khilafah, its warfare afterall; the nature of warfare is there will be casualties & there will be losses, no matter what side your on.

Those killed in the name of god are killed by god.

It is no justification.

So in your Islamic Khilafah paradise I will be free to call Mohammed a fake, not a prophet and a manipulative war mongering paedophile without any fear of consequence.

No ofcourse not.
Your allowed to critisize him & reject his prophethood; but your not allowed to swear/mock at a dead man.
If you want to be able to swear at a dead man; the Islamic constitution must be amended by the caliph. Which i highly doubt will even happen in a dream.

So I cannot safely claim then that Mohammed is not a prophet, Jesus is not a prophet, Allah is a conception of man and that the Koran is a book written by man.

Can I safely and openly be an atheist in the Islamic state?

Yes you can be all of the above; but there is a small catch that im sure you wont like.
Non muslims pay an additional tax called Jizya.

It is no different to christianity in that regard. You live in Australia. You are taxed to support the financing of non-government schools.

I think such taxes are inequitable.

What and why did it change?

In the world war; the khilafah collapsed & the middle easter nations were born(iraq,iran,turkey,saudi arabia,syria etc..).
The people of these countries had their own idea's & perceptions regarding Sharia Law. So, true sharia cannot be established unless it is put in place by the Khilafah.

Again we come down to interpretation. If the Wahhabis beieve they hold the 'truth' of Islam and will die/kill to purge Islam of what they consider impurities - what hope the Shia or other Sunni?

There is truth in what you say, but you must not stereotype muslims like most people tend to do.
Sure the taliban/al-qaeda; 'ideology/perception/interpretation/belief' deviates from mainstream Islam; the same way protestants deviate from the catholic church; the same way messianic jews deviate from judaism etc.. etc..

I am not stereotyping...I am describing the way it is and the way it always will be until the the divisiveness of the monotheisms are assigned to the dustbin of history.

Usually its pseudo doctrine that is fed into the minds of young muslims by tribal leaders & elders;...

What you call 'pseudo doctrine' they call 'the words of the Prophet'.

Will the 'true muslim' (tm) please stand up.

... for example the taliban see death as the only means of punishment permittable; and poisonous gas killings of school girls is considered 'Jihad'.

Indeed - barbarism...based on interpretations of a 'holy' book.

If you compare that type of ideology with the majority of the Islamic Scholars(past & present); you will see a huge difference in belief.

In the differnece lays the division. In the division lays the conflict.

Within and between religions.

Loos the religion and you remove one of the motivations towards division.

In this 'battle of the sects' does the victor get to write history and form a Khilafah, while the losers hold that the prophecy is yet to be fulilled and suffer under their dream?

I think this statement applies to the Sunni-Shia conflict; they both have a different idea on who the mahdi(restorer of Islam) will be.

No it shows the futility of relying on prophecy.

But no, there is no prophecy that one sect will wait to be fulfilled, because there is a global belief that there will be 1 man(mahdi) that will emerge to restore Islam(Khilafah) several years before the descension of Jesus Christ.
The mahdi will erase confusion thus will destroy all the false doctrines about him; and the truth will prevail.

Paradise is always just around the corner.

Man's ideas of heaven have made a hell of the abundant paradise that surrounds us.

[Murad]

So thre is no rom for growth and development of the 'philosophy' of Islam.

There is always interpretations by different scholars.
Do you mean change when you say 'growth & development'?

So you favour a theocracy...a dictatorship based on the interpretation of a religious text.

You cannot be muslim if your not.

Those killed in the name of god are killed by god.

It is no justification.

I never justified the killings because they were for divine purposes.
I simply stated casualties & deaths are inevitable when 2+ seperate nations are at war.
War always has a purpose, whether its for hate, economic, religious, or land expansion.

It is no different to christianity in that regard. You live in Australia. You are taxed to support the financing of non-government schools.

I think such taxes are inequitable.

Personally, im for the Jizya; not because i want non-muslims to lose money, but because i know when one pays Jizya, it is documented proof that you deserve protection from the muslim military from foreign invasion(there is no nationalism in islam). Also the non-muslim will not have to join the military.

What and why did it change?

In the world war; the khilafah collapsed & the middle easter nations were born(iraq,iran,turkey,saudi arabia,syria etc..).
The people of these countries had their own idea's & perceptions regarding Sharia Law. So, true sharia cannot be established unless it is put in place by the Khilafah.

Again we come down to interpretation. If the Wahhabis beieve they hold the 'truth' of Islam and will die/kill to purge Islam of what they consider impurities - what hope the Shia or other Sunni?

There is truth in what you say, but you must not stereotype muslims like most people tend to do.
Sure the taliban/al-qaeda; 'ideology/perception/interpretation/belief' deviates from mainstream Islam; the same way protestants deviate from the catholic church; the same way messianic jews deviate from judaism etc.. etc..

I am not stereotyping...I am describing the way it is and the way it always will be until the the divisiveness of the monotheisms are assigned to the dustbin of history.

There will always be minorities with their own perception.

Usually its pseudo doctrine that is fed into the minds of young muslims by tribal leaders & elders;...

What you call 'pseudo doctrine' they call 'the words of the Prophet'.

Suicide bombing & poisonous gasing is the words of the prophet?

Will the 'true muslim' (tm) please stand up.

Slim shady?

... for example the taliban see death as the only means of punishment permittable; and poisonous gas killings of school girls is considered 'Jihad'.

Indeed - barbarism...based on interpretations of a 'holy' book.

And even those interpretations lack reasoning; i dont see how the tribal elders encourage suicide bombings as Jihad.

"O ye who believe!... do not kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..."
(Quran 4:29-30)

"O ye who believe! Remain steadfast for Allah, bearing witness to justice. Do not allow your hatred for others make you swerve to wrongdoing and turn you away from justice. Be just; that is closer to true piety."
(Quran 5:8)

In this 'battle of the sects' does the victor get to write history and form a Khilafah, while the losers hold that the prophecy is yet to be fulilled and suffer under their dream?

I think this statement applies to the Sunni-Shia conflict; they both have a different idea on who the mahdi(restorer of Islam) will be.

No it shows the futility of relying on prophecy.

Wrong; as i said earlier, there is a global(within Islam) belief that the Mahdi will come, there is a disagreement whether he is the shia 12th imam or someone else. In due time we will know. Nethertheless, a Mahdi will come.

But no, there is no prophecy that one sect will wait to be fulfilled, because there is a global belief that there will be 1 man(mahdi) that will emerge to restore Islam(Khilafah) several years before the descension of Jesus Christ.
The mahdi will erase confusion thus will destroy all the false doctrines about him; and the truth will prevail.

Paradise is always just around the corner.

Man's ideas of heaven have made a hell of the abundant paradise that surrounds us.

I always thank god for my good health & the beautiful planet i live on, and i always love the small details of beauty that is around me.

...they may enjoy the fruits of this earth: It was not their hands that made this: will they not then give thanks?
(Quran 36:35)

The thing is, unlike you, i dont believe this lifespan is all there is to our existence & i believe our existence isn't some mathematical miracle.

[bernee51]

So there is no room for growth and development of the 'philosophy' of Islam.

There is always interpretations by different scholars.

So how do you judge who has the correct interpretation.

Do you mean change when you say 'growth & development'?

I mean evolve. We are the result of 13.7 billion years of evolution. All that mankind has established has evolved and continues to do so. Social concepts such as religion have evolved and continue to do so. The mythic Islam evolved from the mythic Judeo-Christianity which in turn evolved from the earlier ‘power god’ religions. This is documented. The monotheisms will go the way of all else...they will either evolve of become extinct.

So you favour a theocracy...a dictatorship based on the interpretation of a religious text.

You cannot be muslim if your not.

Then Islam is an abomination..I will never b a Muslim and will do whatever I can to prevent such a state.

Those killed in the name of god are killed by god.

It is no justification.

I never justified the killings because they were for divine purposes.
I simply stated casualties & deaths are inevitable when 2+ seperate nations are at war.
War always has a purpose, whether its for hate, economic, religious, or land expansion.

War has justifications...but never a purpose. Religion is the lowest of the low of justifications...people dying and killing in the name of an obvious and undefendable myth.

Personally, im for the Jizya; not because i want non-muslims to lose money, but because i know when one pays Jizya, it is documented proof that you deserve protection from the muslim military from foreign invasion(there is no nationalism in islam). Also the non-muslim will not have to join the military.

This is built around the mythos that protection is needed. Remove the division and the potential for conflict is reduced. It is a circular argument – expansionist Islam conquers territory and then exacts tribute from the conquered in order to protect them from being conquered by someone else...or from internal forces wishing to remove the yoke of Islam from their shoulders.

What and why did it change?

In the world war; the khilafah collapsed & the middle easter nations were born(iraq,iran,turkey,saudi arabia,syria etc..).
The people of these countries had their own idea's & perceptions regarding Sharia Law. So, true sharia cannot be established unless it is put in place by the Khilafah.

Again we come down to interpretation. If the Wahhabis beieve they hold the 'truth' of Islam and will die/kill to purge Islam of what they consider impurities - what hope the Shia or other Sunni?

There is truth in what you say, but you must not stereotype muslims like most people tend to do.
Sure the taliban/al-qaeda; 'ideology/perception/interpretation/belief' deviates from mainstream Islam; the same way protestants deviate from the catholic church; the same way messianic jews deviate from judaism etc.. etc..

I am not stereotyping...I am describing the way it is and the way it always will be until the the divisiveness of the monotheisms are assigned to the dustbin of history.

There will always be minorities with their own perception.

Islam was once a minority within its own land – a reaction to expansionist Christianity. Judaism and Christianity had their prophets...what better way for a threatened society to build loyalty than to invent a prophet of its own It was only thorough warfare and conquest that it expanded to the Ottoman Caliphate.

Usually its pseudo doctrine that is fed into the minds of young muslims by tribal leaders & elders;...

What you call 'pseudo doctrine' they call 'the words of the Prophet'.

Suicide bombing & poisonous gasing is the words of the prophet?

I don’t call them that...some clearly is.

My belief is that the ‘words of the prophet’ are the words of man – which is the obvious sand only truth.

Will the 'true muslim' (tm) please stand up.

Slim shady?

Thre is no such thing as a ‘true muslim’...just as thre is no such thing as a ‘true scotsman’

... for example the taliban see death as the only means of punishment permittable; and poisonous gas killings of school girls is considered 'Jihad'.

Indeed - barbarism...based on interpretations of a 'holy' book.

And even those interpretations lack reasoning; i dont see how the tribal elders encourage suicide bombings as Jihad.

That is your interpretation...and if you tried to force that on the Taliban you would lose your head.

Wrong; as i said earlier, there is a global(within Islam) belief that the Mahdi will come, there is a disagreement whether he is the shia 12th imam or someone else. In due time we will know. Nethertheless, a Mahdi will come.

Just as the some Christians believe Jesus will come again and some Buddhists believe the maitreya will come again...fanciful wishful thinking and a way to keep the ‘troops’ in line.

But no, there is no prophecy that one sect will wait to be fulfilled, because there is a global belief that there will be 1 man(mahdi) that will emerge to restore Islam(Khilafah) several years before the descension of Jesus Christ.
The mahdi will erase confusion thus will destroy all the false doctrines about him; and the truth will prevail.

Paradise is always just around the corner.
Man's ideas of heaven have made a hell of the abundant paradise that surrounds us.

I always thank god for my good health & the beautiful planet i live on, and i always love the small details of beauty that is around me.
The thing is, unlike you, i dont believe this lifespan is all there is to our existence & i believe our existence isn't some mathematical miracle.[/quote]

There is no evidence that there is anything beyond this lifespan, and ‘our’ existence – as in first person selfhood – is an illusion – a concept built up from all our culture, ideas, thoughts, beliefs and so on. The belief of a ‘life after’ is an attempt to maintain that illusion.

I believe the evolution of sentient beings is not a ‘mathematical miracle’ - it is an inevitability.