Proselytizing

[rreppy]

No Buddhist monk has ever come to my door on a Sunday morning and confronted me about whether or not I was "saved". I like that. I feel if you are confident that your religion is worthwhile, then you should have faith that people will find it and be convinced on its own merits, without the need of a bunch of pushy salespersons trying to "close a deal".
I admire the fact that the Dalai Lama, in almost every speech he makes to westerners, exhorts them to stay in the religion of their upbringing and merely explore whether Buddhism might have some tools and insights they may find useful. I could never imagine in a million years the Dalai Lama doing what Christian missionaries have done, going into foreign cultures and blasting their native religions as lies and blasphemies, destroying their works of art, burning their books, and telling them tales about how they will "burn in torment forever" if they don't convert.
Islam, of course, is even worse; the first 500 years of its history was "convert or die by my sword, infidel scum!".
I say, let a person find their own path and make up their own mind. Don't insult me by calling my beliefs inferior to your own and then shoving yours down my throat. A worthy religion shouldn't have to proselytize. Don't demean spirituality to the level of a popularity contest.

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

Is insulting someone a good way to convince them your religion is peacful. That is the opposite of what Christ did!!!

Yea, I'm sure that - and I hope I don't get banned for this cause I'm quoting the Bible - "you generation of vipers", "you wicked and adulterous generation" are nice and peaceful words - this is Jesus Christ speaking to the elders of his people.

"You hypocrites", "you whited sepulchres", etc.

And when he called that gentile(?) women I think it said she was greek or something, the Bible says he called her a dog and did not want to heal her daughter until she begged a few more times.


And yes I know thousands of people will start replying to me and giving me excuses for these things and reasons why, trying to prove that they weren't insults and whatnot, but these statements are as clear as the sun in a cloudless sky.




May Allah guide us from the path of arrogance and ignorance.

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

Is insulting someone a good way to convince them your religion is peacful. That is the opposite of what Christ did!!!

Yea, I'm sure that - and I hope I don't get banned for this cause I'm quoting the Bible - "you generation of vipers", "you wicked and adulterous generation" are nice and peaceful words - this is Jesus Christ speaking to the elders of his people.

"You hypocrites", "you whited sepulchres", etc.

And when he called that gentile(?) women I think it said she was greek or something, the Bible says he called her a dog and did not want to heal her daughter until she begged a few more times.


And yes I know thousands of people will start replying to me and giving me excuses for these things and reasons why, trying to prove that they weren't insults and whatnot, but these statements are as clear as the sun in a cloudless sky.




May Allah guide us from the path of arrogance and ignorance.

[Burninglight]

Is insulting someone a good way to convince them your religion is peacful. That is the opposite of what Christ did!!!

Yea, I'm sure that - and I hope I don't get banned for this cause I'm quoting the Bible - "you generation of vipers", "you wicked and adulterous generation" are nice and peaceful words - this is Jesus Christ speaking to the elders of his people.

"You hypocrites", "you whited sepulchres", etc.

And when he called that gentile(?) women I think it said she was greek or something, the Bible says he called her a dog and did not want to heal her daughter until she begged a few more times.


And yes I know thousands of people will start replying to me and giving me excuses for these things and reasons why, trying to prove that they weren't insults and whatnot, but these statements are as clear as the sun in a cloudless sky.




May Allah guide us from the path of arrogance and ignorance.

When Jesus called them names he was accurate because he was saying and doing what God was saying and doing. When deedat does it, he is doing it of himself and he is sinning. He is not hearing or doing the works of God by insulting a Christian who wasn't debating with him, but just asking questions.

By the way, are you a Quran only Muslim or do you believe in both the Quran and the hadith and sunnah are necessary to be a follower of Allah? Some Muslims say that the Quran needs no help from the hadith, because it is complete on its own, but others say it needs Muhammad's words and actions to follow it accurately. It is confusing. The Shahadah is a form of association and the Hadith is a necessary association to follow the Quran properly, because the Quran alone is not complete or enough but no one Knows if the Hadiths are trust worthy. What is your view of this?

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

When Jesus called them names he was accurate because he was saying and doing what God was saying and doing. When deedat does it, he is doing it of himself and he is sinning. He is not hearing or doing the works of God by insulting a Christian who wasn't debating with him, but just asking questions.

Haha indeed: "And yes I know thousands of people will start replying to me and giving me excuses for these things and reasons why, trying to prove that they weren't insults and whatnot, but these statements are as clear as the sun in a cloudless sky. "

But thanks for the excuse I shall remember it for the future.

By the way, are you a Quran only Muslim or do you believe in both the Quran and the hadith and sunnah are necessary to be a follower of Allah? Some Muslims say that the Quran needs no help from the hadith, because it is complete on its own, but others say it needs Muhammad's words and actions to follow it accurately. It is confusing. The Shahadah is a form of association and the Hadith is a necessary association to follow the Quran properly, because the Quran alone is not complete or enough but no one Knows if the Hadiths are trust worthy. What is your view of this?

For this you can pm me, or I pm u if you want, or post it on the sonni shi'eh thread cause I think we've already derailed this one enuf, I just wanted to correct some mistake the guy/girl made.

Or make a thread called "is saying 'Muhammad is messenger of God', in shahada, shirk?" or w/e u want.

[1robin]

Is insulting someone a good way to convince them your religion is peacful. That is the opposite of what Christ did!!!

Yea, I'm sure that - and I hope I don't get banned for this cause I'm quoting the Bible - "you generation of vipers", "you wicked and adulterous generation" are nice and peaceful words - this is Jesus Christ speaking to the elders of his people.

"You hypocrites", "you whited sepulchres", etc.

And when he called that gentile(?) women I think it said she was greek or something, the Bible says he called her a dog and did not want to heal her daughter until she begged a few more times.


And yes I know thousands of people will start replying to me and giving me excuses for these things and reasons why, trying to prove that they weren't insults and whatnot, but these statements are as clear as the sun in a cloudless sky.




May Allah guide us from the path of arrogance and ignorance.

Actually I will say you have good counterpoint but Your insults were still counterproductive. Also it is recorded that Christ knew the condition of these men's hearts so it was less a judgment and more of a statement of fact. Muhammad nor you do however. But I will still give you credit where it is due. You should avoid the habit if your want to avoid the stereotype.

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

Actually I will say you have good counterpoint but Your insults were still counterproductive. Also it is recorded that Christ knew the condition of these men's hearts so it was less a judgment and more of a statement of fact. Muhammad nor you do however. But I will still give you credit where it is due. You should avoid the habit if your want to avoid the stereotype.

What insults? I just told him part of his sentence and accusation is correct (or at least applies for me).


He did not have to be so mean about it, calling them snakes and such things. Even insulting his own disciples at times, and after the 10th time they messed up with something, he got so mad and asked them, "are ye YET without understanding?".

And: O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you?", wowza you can feel the anger and disappointment in those words, it just JUMPS out at you. Yowza. What imagery and description! Just repeat those words and you can feel what he was feeling when he said that. Woah....

It just blows me away every time I read it..


And calling poor gentile women 'dogs'. Some try to make it seem like he was talking 'cutely' and that he meant like "little puppies" but again, it is crystal clear.


Anyways, I shall just use the same excuse that if you don't like something in Quran or Sunnah, I will say "hey man, that's God speaking and that's the word of the Prophet of God, so they are correct judgements". The only reason you can object is b/c you don't believe this is from God or His prophet, but that is just too bad cuz they are .

Same way if someone doesn't believe prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) is qualified to give out such judgement, you won't care and will use the same excuse.


Therefore, prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu alayhis wassalaam) is qualified to make all kinds of statements and your objections mean nothing


BTW, the "stereotype" or lies were already flying from the first post way before I came here so it's not anything to do with my attitude but rather yours and your inability to look at both sides of the story.

[Burninglight]

When Jesus called them names he was accurate because he was saying and doing what God was saying and doing. When deedat does it, he is doing it of himself and he is sinning. He is not hearing or doing the works of God by insulting a Christian who wasn't debating with him, but just asking questions.

Haha indeed: "And yes I know thousands of people will start replying to me and giving me excuses for these things and reasons why, trying to prove that they weren't insults and whatnot, but these statements are as clear as the sun in a cloudless sky. "

But thanks for the excuse I shall remember it for the future.

By the way, are you a Quran only Muslim or do you believe in both the Quran and the hadith and sunnah are necessary to be a follower of Allah? Some Muslims say that the Quran needs no help from the hadith, because it is complete on its own, but others say it needs Muhammad's words and actions to follow it accurately. It is confusing. The Shahadah is a form of association and the Hadith is a necessary association to follow the Quran properly, because the Quran alone is not complete or enough but no one Knows if the Hadiths are trust worthy. What is your view of this?

For this you can pm me, or I pm u if you want, or post it on the sonni shi'eh thread cause I think we've already derailed this one enuf, I just wanted to correct some mistake the guy/girl made.

Or make a thread called "is saying 'Muhammad is messenger of God', in shahada, shirk?" or w/e u want.

Muslims don't know who Jesus is. The Bible states that all things are held together by the word of His power That is the word of God's power that who jesus is the word that God uses to hold all things together.

As far as the Shahadah being shirk, I had conforted many Muslim on it and they tell me Muhammad is not Allah's partner. We don't confess him as Allah's associate. I tell them I know, but you still associate the name with Allah or you cannot be a Muslim. Even though you see him as Allah's slave, you must mention his name with Allah.

I find that to be hypocritical of Muslims to accuse Christians of shirk when Christians don't have to confess any non deity as pertains to salvation and eternal life. i see God and Jesus as hot wired; IOW, there is the venue of the father in heaven and venue of the son on earth and they are inextricably linked and the current that runs through the link is God's holiness and power. The Bible say God is Spirit; we know God is Holy. Therefore God is the Holy Spirit. All things are held together by the word of His power Jesus. Muslims could never win me into this ridiculous hypocrisy, but then again, they are not known for proselytizing

[1robin]

Actually I will say you have good counterpoint but Your insults were still counterproductive. Also it is recorded that Christ knew the condition of these men's hearts so it was less a judgment and more of a statement of fact. Muhammad nor you do however. But I will still give you credit where it is due. You should avoid the habit if your want to avoid the stereotype.

What insults? I just told him part of his sentence and accusation is correct (or at least applies for me).


He did not have to be so mean about it, calling them snakes and such things. Even insulting his own disciples at times, and after the 10th time they messed up with something, he got so mad and asked them, "are ye YET without understanding?".

And: O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you?", wowza you can feel the anger and disappointment in those words, it just JUMPS out at you. Yowza. What imagery and description! Just repeat those words and you can feel what he was feeling when he said that. Woah....

It just blows me away every time I read it..


And calling poor gentile women 'dogs'. Some try to make it seem like he was talking 'cutely' and that he meant like "little puppies" but again, it is crystal clear.


Anyways, I shall just use the same excuse that if you don't like something in Quran or Sunnah, I will say "hey man, that's God speaking and that's the word of the Prophet of God, so they are correct judgements". The only reason you can object is b/c you don't believe this is from God or His prophet, but that is just too bad cuz they are .

Same way if someone doesn't believe prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) is qualified to give out such judgement, you won't care and will use the same excuse.


Therefore, prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu alayhis wassalaam) is qualified to make all kinds of statements and your objections mean nothing


BTW, the "stereotype" or lies were already flying from the first post way before I came here so it's not anything to do with my attitude but rather yours and your inability to look at both sides of the story.

I will give you the benifit of the doubt about the earlier comments. You don't seem to have a competent grasp on the context of many of those verses and yes we have to remember that it was Jesus (God) saying those things. Allah might get the same pass but Muhammad and his 68 wars and countless raids shouldn't.

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

I will give you the benifit of the doubt about the earlier comments. You don't seem to have a competent grasp on the context of many of those verses and yes we have to remember that it was Jesus (God) saying those things. Allah might get the same pass but Muhammad and his 68 wars and countless raids shouldn't.

But if prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is a prophet of God, doesn't that warrant him a 'pass'?

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

Muslims don't know who Jesus is. The Bible states that all things are held together by the word of His power That is the word of God's power that who jesus is the word that God uses to hold all things together.

As far as the Shahadah being shirk, I had conforted many Muslim on it and they tell me Muhammad is not Allah's partner. We don't confess him as Allah's associate. I tell them I know, but you still associate the name with Allah or you cannot be a Muslim. Even though you see him as Allah's slave, you must mention his name with Allah.

I find that to be hypocritical of Muslims to accuse Christians of shirk when Christians don't have to confess any non deity as pertains to salvation and eternal life. i see God and Jesus as hot wired; IOW, there is the venue of the father in heaven and venue of the son on earth and they are inextricably linked and the current that runs through the link is God's holiness and power. The Bible say God is Spirit; we know God is Holy. Therefore God is the Holy Spirit. All things are held together by the word of His power Jesus. Muslims could never win me into this ridiculous hypocrisy, but then again, they are not known for proselytizing

Wowza, do you really think it's shirk or are you just looking to cause problems?

Anyways I told you to make a new thread if you want me to explain this to you (it's very simple) cause I don't think it has anything to do with the topic of this page.