A question to Jews about Jesus Christ:

[Truth_Teller]

The following question has been in my mind since quite a few days and thus have decided to ask posters of Judaism belief (on board):

If Jesus (peace be upon him) was a false prophet/messiah (God forbid) and was punished by the court by being killed at the cross, do you have any grave or anything as a proof to show that he really died at the cross (God forbid)???

Will be very thank if any Jew can clarify things here by replying.

Waiting for your answers folks......

[C-Nub]

I wasn't trying to make a strident argument against christianity or for Islam, nor were my points intended to be the subject of individual debate, I was making a point that, despite the semantics of individual argument, could be laid just as readily against Christianity as Islam. Christianity has lead many, let's call them... "Crusades" against other faiths over the years that have resulted in thousands of lives lost and ruined (ok, millions, but I'm trying not to overstate).

As for the Jews, your right, their record is pretty good, and I agree with you. Lots of people don't, though, as the Jews are blamed for a lot of stuff that I'm not going to dignify by quoting.

My overall point, though, is that people of faith are very quick to point out the worst of what other faiths do, and at the same time, they dismiss the same or very similar observations of their own faith as somehow different. It's a semantic argument. At this point, it's safe to say that people have died for and for not being Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindi, and a wild assortment of Pagan options.

That's one of the things I like most about being an atheist. I don't think we've ever killed anyone for not-not-believing in God.

[Goat]

I wasn't trying to make a strident argument against christianity or for Islam, nor were my points intended to be the subject of individual debate, I was making a point that, despite the semantics of individual argument, could be laid just as readily against Christianity as Islam. Christianity has lead many, let's call them... "Crusades" against other faiths over the years that have resulted in thousands of lives lost and ruined (ok, millions, but I'm trying not to overstate).

As for the Jews, your right, their record is pretty good, and I agree with you. Lots of people don't, though, as the Jews are blamed for a lot of stuff that I'm not going to dignify by quoting.

My overall point, though, is that people of faith are very quick to point out the worst of what other faiths do, and at the same time, they dismiss the same or very similar observations of their own faith as somehow different. It's a semantic argument. At this point, it's safe to say that people have died for and for not being Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindi, and a wild assortment of Pagan options.

That's one of the things I like most about being an atheist. I don't think we've ever killed anyone for not-not-believing in God.

According to the Einstein letter declaring his disbelief in any God that recently got sold, he attributes the Jewish good track record to a lack of power. That goes along with my point that most of the areas where I am distrurbed about how Islam is implemented , there is either a theocracy, or a group that wants to turn the government into a theocracy via force.

[C-Nub]

I really wish I could have purchased that letter. I'd learn German for that letter. I didn't have twelve thousand pounds, though. I didn't have twelve pounds. Well... My cat's about twelve pounds, but that's not going to cut it.

[Truth_Teller]

Would you like a list of quotations from the Quran and the Hadith that indicate that it inarguably does?

Why not do it other way around? You list quotations from Qur´an. And not Hadith because they can be extremely misleading. Hadith were compiled over a period of 200 years after the death of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him). Thousands of Hadith were fabricated and many words were even added to some authentic hadith. Hadith shouldn´t be the source of knowledge as some self-made Hadith even contradict to the teaching of the Qur´an. (< Sadly enough extremists are best at doing that)

I commend you on your opposition to these vile teachings, but you did not finish answering my questions: Do you speak out against them among you fellow Muslims?

Yes, I do speak against them sitting amongst my fellow Muslims as well. If anyone has a problem he may prefer not to meet me.

I hope you got your answer now!

[cnorman18]

Would you like a list of quotations from the Quran and the Hadith that indicate that it inarguably does?

Why not do it other way around? You list quotations from Qur´an. And not Hadith because they can be extremely misleading. Hadith were compiled over a period of 200 years after the death of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him). Thousands of Hadith were fabricated and many words were even added to some authentic hadith. Hadith shouldn´t be the source of knowledge as some self-made Hadith even contradict to the teaching of the Qur´an. (< Sadly enough extremists are best at doing that)

I commend you on your opposition to these vile teachings, but you did not finish answering my questions: Do you speak out against them among you fellow Muslims?

Yes, I do speak against them sitting amongst my fellow Muslims as well. If anyone has a problem he may prefer not to meet me.

I hope you got your answer now!

I do, and I thank you.

I have always maintained that Islam is, as I said above and have said often elsewhere, an ancient, honorable and noble religion. The most secure and productive time and place in Jewish history, until the present day in Israel and the United States, was in 12th-century Muslim Spain, still known among Jews today as our "Golden Age." Our two faiths can coexist in harmony, and history has proven it.

I apologize for any rancor or hostility you may have sensed in my posts; I do not deny that they were present. I have dealt with many, many professed followers of your religion that were more inclined to defend atrocities than to disavow them; blame them for my bad attitude, not me. They are a shame to your faith and a stumbling block to those who would understand its true nature.

I offer you the right hand of friendship, if you will take it. Muslims like yourself are, in my opinion, the bearers of the true message of the Prophet and the hope for the future of your faith--and perhaps of my own. May Allah bless you in your struggle.

Charles

[Truth_Teller]

I do, and I thank you.

I have always maintained that Islam is, as I said above and have said often elsewhere, an ancient, honorable and noble religion. The most secure and productive time and place in Jewish history, until the present day in Israel and the United States, was in 12th-century Muslim Spain, still known among Jews today as our "Golden Age." Our two faiths can coexist in harmony, and history has proven it.

I apologize for any rancor or hostility you may have sensed in my posts; I do not deny that they were present. I have dealt with many, many professed followers of your religion that were more inclined to defend atrocities than to disavow them; blame them for my bad attitude, not me. They are a shame to your faith and a stumbling block to those who would understand its true nature.

I offer you the right hand of friendship, if you will take it. Muslims like yourself are, in my opinion, the bearers of the true message of the Prophet and the hope for the future of your faith--and perhaps of my own. May Allah bless you in your struggle.

Charles

It´s alright mate.

And yes, I didn´t feel the hostility in your posts.

There is no doubt that it really is a "Struggle" for me but I will have to stand firm and fight against these extremists. They are, in reality, demolishing the peaceful image of my religion. To have got a compliment like "The bearer of the true message of the Prophet" really made my day and inspired me even further.

The fact is, which I will have to admit anyhow, that not even 10% Muslims speak against these extremists. But it doesn´t that rest of the 90% support them. It´s that they themselves are afraid of being labelled as "Infidels" and beheaded.

I would truly like to apologize to every non-Muslim on board who might have been one of the victims of their vile acts.

I sometimes feel absolutely shocked that so many of the Muslims back someone (Osama Bin Laden, may a sudden death be upon him at the very mention of his name) who deserves a death-penalty as per The Law of Qur´an.

Good to have made friendship with you!

[cnorman18]

I do, and I thank you.

I have always maintained that Islam is, as I said above and have said often elsewhere, an ancient, honorable and noble religion. The most secure and productive time and place in Jewish history, until the present day in Israel and the United States, was in 12th-century Muslim Spain, still known among Jews today as our "Golden Age." Our two faiths can coexist in harmony, and history has proven it.

I apologize for any rancor or hostility you may have sensed in my posts; I do not deny that they were present. I have dealt with many, many professed followers of your religion that were more inclined to defend atrocities than to disavow them; blame them for my bad attitude, not me. They are a shame to your faith and a stumbling block to those who would understand its true nature.

I offer you the right hand of friendship, if you will take it. Muslims like yourself are, in my opinion, the bearers of the true message of the Prophet and the hope for the future of your faith--and perhaps of my own. May Allah bless you in your struggle.

Charles

It´s alright mate.

And yes, I didn´t feel the hostility in your posts.

There is no doubt that it really is a "Struggle" for me but I will have to stand firm and fight against these extremists. They are, in reality, demolishing the peaceful image of my religion. To have got a compliment like "The bearer of the true message of the Prophet" really made my day and inspired me even further.

The fact is, which I will have to admit anyhow, that not even 10% Muslims speak against these extremists. But it doesn´t that rest of the 90% support them. It´s that they themselves are afraid of being labelled as "Infidels" and beheaded.

I would truly like to apologize to every non-Muslim on board who might have been one of the victims of their vile acts.

I sometimes feel absolutely shocked that so many of the Muslims back someone (Osama Bin Laden, may a sudden death be upon him at the very mention of his name) who deserves a death-penalty as per The Law of Qur´an.

Good to have made friendship with you!

Likewise, my friend. I thank you again for your candor.

Personally, I think a sudden death would be too good for bin Laden. I wish him a very slow, very painful one. But I suppose we essentially agree otherwise...

Have a great day. Good to have you on the forum.

[carolineislands]

To Norman and Truth-Teller:

[cnorman18]

To Norman and Truth-Teller:

Thanks, Caroline. Great pic.

It doesn't happen often. Let us rejoice when it does.

[carolineislands]

No kidding! I cried.