Muslims worship Muhammad…

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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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Muslims worship Muhammad…

Post #1

Post by Pazuzu bin Hanbi »

OK, now no muslim would state that they worship Muhammad. They may even believe that they worship Allah alone, but their actions and creedal testimonies put Muhammad in a position that other religions reserve for God. Even Yeshua‘ in the Bible, and ancient Assyrians, as well as other pagan groups, exhorted that we as people imitate God to achieve the Good Life. Yeshua‘, for example, repeatedly states that people should copy God’s sense of mercy, justice, etc. Muslims, however, do their utmost to emulate Muhammad.

A couple of quotes. The first from the excellent contemporary scholarly book called Muslims: Their religious beliefs and practices by Andrew Rippin (don’t let the title fool you — he delves deep into the various elements that have combined to form Islam from its pre–history to the present day and includes current scholarship on Islam, challenging traditionally–accepted views on Islamic ‘history’):
While Muslims may think those who deny the existence of God or who utter blasphemies about Him are misguided, such discussions will not offend in the same manner in which discussions over Muhammad will. Those who insinuate evil of Muhammad or who cast aspersions on him are considered to be insulting Islam. This, upon consideration, is not surprising.


I know this myself, from having grown up in an Islamic community. It means muslims put Muhammad at the centre of Islam, not Allah! And the reactions Rippin notes above made me recall a passage I read in an autobiographical work by Ziauddin Sardar, a well–written and witty, not to mention interesting, book called Desperately Seeking Paradise. In this extract Sardar details his reaction to reading Rushdie’s The Satanic Verses:
Rushdie had plundered everything I hold dear and despoiled the inner sanctum of my identity. Every word was directed at me and I took everything personally. This is how, I remember thinking, it must feel to be raped… The life of the Prophet Muhammad is the source of Muslim identity. Muslims do not merely emulate his character and personality and follow his sayings and actions: it is the Prophet Muhammad who provides them with the ultimate reason for being a Muslim.

I do wonder if he or others would react like this if someone spoke out against Allah as opposed to Muhammad. Presented for your consideration: the reaction of muslims worldwide to the Danish cartoons (nobody lampooned Allah, only Muhammad), and the case of the Teddy Bear Named Muhammad (I recall some sources referring to this as ‘blasphemy’ — surely only a crime against God ranks as blasphemy?).
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه

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Post #31

Post by Goat »

Truth_Teller wrote:
I don´t get what you mean? We definitely consider him to be the greatest ever person to have walked to the planet. We copy the things he used to do which are called Sunnahs. We do that because we think that he was the perfect Muslim and that is how we should be as well. To become a Muslim you have to believe Muhammad (peace be upon him) as to be last of Allah´s Messenger. If you mran by "worshipping" that we pray to him or consider him to be The God (Allah forbid) then it just doesn´t make any sense since it´s strictly forbidden as per Qur´an itself. I had pointed out a verse from The Book we consider to be Holiest and Greatest and all Muslims hence should believe in it. By just claiming that we worship him doesn´t make sense either! And if there is anyone who worships him then let him/her know that he/she isn´t following Islam.
And, what you describe, 'the perfect Muslim', etc etc etc, sounds like worship to me. Maybe not in the same sense of 'divine', but IMO, putting him on a pedestal much higher than any man should be put. Look at how you describe him. 'Holiest and Greatest' That sounds like worship to me. However, to me, that is irrelevant.
As for the protests and slaughter etc. Well what can I say for that? This not allowed in Islam either. If anyone makes his cartoons etc it will only be because he doesn´t know him correctly and is blind-folded by the hate they have been fulfilled with by non-Muslims. There was this instance when he came to know that Abu Bakr (one of Islam´s four righteous caliphs) had said in front of Jews that they don´t believe in someone who is greater than Holy Prophet Moses (peace be upon him). He called upon Abu Bakr and said that no one´s believe should ever be offended and that he wasn´t greater than anyone. So humble he was..... There were Billions of occasions when The Holy Prophet was abused and insulted but did he get them all killed? No! He forgave all the Meccans. The only thing which he couldn´t tolerate was the insult of [/i]Allah The Almighty. He never taught to behead the one who insults him. He was such a forgiving character that he even forgave the murder of his daughter Zainab and her unborn child.

Which 800 people did he decapitate? Apart from the battles he got no one killed. These are just the stories made by his haters, nothing else!!! The one who surrender becomes a prisoner, right? And do you know how much care he had for prisoners? He used to say that prisoners should sleep and eat (in a) better (way) than you yourself. He said that "If a prisoner harms you then forgive him. And if you have harmed him knowingly or unknowingly you should immediately free him".

And slavery?????? One of the main purpose of his life was to get all the female slaves freed forever. That sounds like a joke.

And which nine years old girl did he have sex with????? Do you mean Aisha?

Read this: Most narrations carry misstatements about the age of Aisha at the time of her marriage to the Holy Prophet, (peach and blessings of Allah be upon him). They place this marriage in the tenth year of the Call and state that Aisha was only 6 years old at that time. On proper sifting of the material facts, these statements turn out to be incorrect and it becomes evident that she, in fact, was about 19 or 20 years of age when she arrived in the house of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upun him) as his wife in 2 A.H. Common sense anyway reveals that when most of his wives were over 30s why would he marry one particular minor???? Senseless!


One problem I have with Islam as it is implemented in many parts of the world is that due to this mistranslation, many countries (Afghanistan, and Iran for two) think it is ok for girls to get married off at 9. This happens to this day. They use what you claim is a mistranslation for the modern marrying off of girls.

As for it being a mistranslation, this is a narrative from Aisha talking about how Mohammad came to her when she was playing with her dolls. That does not sound like an 18 or 19 year old to me. Could you please explain that narrative?

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352728

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #32

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goat wrote: And, what you describe, 'the perfect Muslim', etc etc etc, sounds like worship to me. Maybe not in the same sense of 'divine', but IMO, putting him on a pedestal much higher than any man should be put. Look at how you describe him. 'Holiest and Greatest' That sounds like worship to me. However, to me, that is irrelevant.
That´s our love and passion for him. If you really think that it´s worship then I help it since people of other religion themselves worship great persons (who we believe were prophets). Considering him to be the Holiest and Greatest doesn´t qualify for worshipping I guess.
goat wrote:One problem I have with Islam as it is implemented in many parts of the world is that due to this mistranslation, many countries (Afghanistan, and Iran for two) think it is ok for girls to get married off at 9. This happens to this day. They use what you claim is a mistranslation for the modern marrying off of girls.

As for it being a mistranslation, this is a narrative from Aisha talking about how Mohammad came to her when she was playing with her dolls. That does not sound like an 18 or 19 year old to me. Could you please explain that narrative?

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352728

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
[/quote]

As far as hadith (narrative) is concerned; hadith were compiled over a period of 200 years after the death of the Holy Prophet SAW. Thousands of hadith were fabricated and many words were even added to some authentic hadith. Many senseless Muslims believe in this. However, I don´t since I have my common-sense to use rather than looking at the hadith. And also, my explanation was much more evidence-based on her age.

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Post #33

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Post #34

Post by Truth_Teller »

Truth_Teller wrote:
Truth_Teller wrote:
goat wrote: And, what you describe, 'the perfect Muslim', etc etc etc, sounds like worship to me. Maybe not in the same sense of 'divine', but IMO, putting him on a pedestal much higher than any man should be put. Look at how you describe him. 'Holiest and Greatest' That sounds like worship to me. However, to me, that is irrelevant.
That´s our love, respect and passion for him. If you really think that it´s worship then I help it since people of other religion themselves worship great persons (who we believe were prophets). Considering him to be the Holiest and Greatest doesn´t qualify for worshipping I guess.
goat wrote:One problem I have with Islam as it is implemented in many parts of the world is that due to this mistranslation, many countries (Afghanistan, and Iran for two) think it is ok for girls to get married off at 9. This happens to this day. They use what you claim is a mistranslation for the modern marrying off of girls.

As for it being a mistranslation, this is a narrative from Aisha talking about how Mohammad came to her when she was playing with her dolls. That does not sound like an 18 or 19 year old to me. Could you please explain that narrative?

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352728

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
As far as hadith (narrative) is concerned; hadith were compiled over a period of 200 years after the death of the Holy Prophet. Thousands of hadith were fabricated and many words were even added to some authentic hadith. Many senseless Muslims believe in this. However, I don´t since I have my common-sense to use rather than looking at the hadith. And also, my explanation was much more evidence-based on her age.

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Post #35

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quote="goat"]And, what you describe, 'the perfect Muslim', etc etc etc, sounds like worship to me. Maybe not in the same sense of 'divine', but IMO, putting him on a pedestal much higher than any man should be put. Look at how you describe him. 'Holiest and Greatest' That sounds like worship to me. However, to me, that is irrelevant.[/quote]

That´s our love, respect and passion for him. If you really think that it´s worship then I help it since people of other religion themselves worship great persons (who we believe were prophets). Considering him to be the Holiest and Greatest doesn´t qualify for worshipping I guess.
goat wrote:One problem I have with Islam as it is implemented in many parts of the world is that due to this mistranslation, many countries (Afghanistan, and Iran for two) think it is ok for girls to get married off at 9. This happens to this day. They use what you claim is a mistranslation for the modern marrying off of girls.

As for it being a mistranslation, this is a narrative from Aisha talking about how Mohammad came to her when she was playing with her dolls. That does not sound like an 18 or 19 year old to me. Could you please explain that narrative?

http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352728

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
As far as hadith (narrative) is concerned; hadith were compiled over a period of 200 years after the death of the Holy Prophet. Thousands of hadith were fabricated and many words were even added to some authentic hadith. Many senseless Muslims believe in this. However, I don´t since I have my common-sense to use rather than looking at the hadith. And also, my explanation was much more evidence-based on her age.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

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Post #38

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Truth_Teller wrote: As far as hadith (narrative) is concerned; hadith were compiled over a period of 200 years after the death of the Holy Prophet. Thousands of hadith were fabricated and many words were even added to some authentic hadith. Many senseless Muslims believe in this. However, I don´t since I have my common-sense to use rather than looking at the hadith. And also, my explanation was much more evidence-based on her age.
I will accept that there is a lot of corruption in the commentaries.

Since you say that 'many senseless Muslims' believe this, what do you suggest
would be the best course of action to bring them in line with a good understanding?

The way Sharia law is practiced , and the things that you probably call 'senseless' makes Islam look very unappealing to me. Do you see a way to bring about better balance into how it is being practiced?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #39

Post by muhammad rasullah »

Fallibleone wrote:If God is not needy, how does one explain his need for followers?

God does not need followers. The worship of a person to God does not increase him or decrease him at all. It is we who are in need of him. Allah is self'sufficient.

















.
Bismillahir rahmaanir Raheem \"In The Name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful\"

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Post #40

Post by Fallibleone »

I see. So what is the point of the threat of hell?
''''What I am is good enough if I can only be it openly.''''

''''The man said "why you think you here?" I said "I got no idea".''''

''''Je viens comme un chat
Par la nuit si noire.
Tu attends, et je tombe
Dans tes ailes blanches,
Et je vole,
Et je coule
Comme une plume.''''

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