Muslims worship Muhammad…

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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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Muslims worship Muhammad…

Post #1

Post by Pazuzu bin Hanbi »

OK, now no muslim would state that they worship Muhammad. They may even believe that they worship Allah alone, but their actions and creedal testimonies put Muhammad in a position that other religions reserve for God. Even Yeshua‘ in the Bible, and ancient Assyrians, as well as other pagan groups, exhorted that we as people imitate God to achieve the Good Life. Yeshua‘, for example, repeatedly states that people should copy God’s sense of mercy, justice, etc. Muslims, however, do their utmost to emulate Muhammad.

A couple of quotes. The first from the excellent contemporary scholarly book called Muslims: Their religious beliefs and practices by Andrew Rippin (don’t let the title fool you — he delves deep into the various elements that have combined to form Islam from its pre–history to the present day and includes current scholarship on Islam, challenging traditionally–accepted views on Islamic ‘history’):
While Muslims may think those who deny the existence of God or who utter blasphemies about Him are misguided, such discussions will not offend in the same manner in which discussions over Muhammad will. Those who insinuate evil of Muhammad or who cast aspersions on him are considered to be insulting Islam. This, upon consideration, is not surprising.


I know this myself, from having grown up in an Islamic community. It means muslims put Muhammad at the centre of Islam, not Allah! And the reactions Rippin notes above made me recall a passage I read in an autobiographical work by Ziauddin Sardar, a well–written and witty, not to mention interesting, book called Desperately Seeking Paradise. In this extract Sardar details his reaction to reading Rushdie’s The Satanic Verses:
Rushdie had plundered everything I hold dear and despoiled the inner sanctum of my identity. Every word was directed at me and I took everything personally. This is how, I remember thinking, it must feel to be raped… The life of the Prophet Muhammad is the source of Muslim identity. Muslims do not merely emulate his character and personality and follow his sayings and actions: it is the Prophet Muhammad who provides them with the ultimate reason for being a Muslim.

I do wonder if he or others would react like this if someone spoke out against Allah as opposed to Muhammad. Presented for your consideration: the reaction of muslims worldwide to the Danish cartoons (nobody lampooned Allah, only Muhammad), and the case of the Teddy Bear Named Muhammad (I recall some sources referring to this as ‘blasphemy’ — surely only a crime against God ranks as blasphemy?).
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه

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Wyvern
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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #291

Post by Wyvern »

Its your reply to what you said about Sudan, that it was forced into christianity before muslims invaded Sudan and give them right religion
You really need to read the websites you link to. It states quite clearly that the only christians that went trying to convert people were missionaries and less than a hundred years later a muslim army invaded and converted the majority of the population en masse.

So lets see christians send missionaries who were no in any kind of large number to do as you think while the muslims sent an army to convert everyone in the area. Looks like you need to rethink your ideas.

TrueReligion
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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #292

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
Its your reply to what you said about Sudan, that it was forced into christianity before muslims invaded Sudan and give them right religion
You really need to read the websites you link to. It states quite clearly that the only christians that went trying to convert people were missionaries and less than a hundred years later a muslim army invaded and converted the majority of the population en masse.

So lets see christians send missionaries who were no in any kind of large number to do as you think while the muslims sent an army to convert everyone in the area. Looks like you need to rethink your ideas.
No,:) its your assumption my dear. missionaries didnt went alone there, search more, christians invaded by force in africa, mostly britishers, and they brought missionaries to convert people by force, because already the africans were made slave by christian army:)

Your research is weak my friend, do more before making statement

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #293

Post by Wyvern »

No,:) its your assumption my dear. missionaries didnt went alone there, search more, christians invaded by force in africa, mostly britishers, and they brought missionaries to convert people by force, because already the africans were made slave by christian army:)

Your research is weak my friend, do more before making statement
In order to fit your timeline muslims came in after the christians the muslim army invaded in the 600's so whatever the brit's did makes no difference at all, please read your links or at least the first few lines.

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #294

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
No,:) its your assumption my dear. missionaries didnt went alone there, search more, christians invaded by force in africa, mostly britishers, and they brought missionaries to convert people by force, because already the africans were made slave by christian army:)

Your research is weak my friend, do more before making statement
In order to fit your timeline muslims came in after the christians the muslim army invaded in the 600's so whatever the brit's did makes no difference at all, please read your links or at least the first few lines.
So you mean to say that missionaries went alone to africa, and start preching sudanese tribes without the help of any army? in which world you are living wyvern, read history better making comments.

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #295

Post by Wyvern »

So you mean to say that missionaries went alone to africa, and start preching sudanese tribes without the help of any army? in which world you are living wyvern, read history better making comments.
Christian missionaries are well known for going into areas where they have a good chance of being killed for their faith. Also of course they didn't have very far to go since the missionaries were koptic, they didn't have to go alone into africa it was their home.

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #296

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
So you mean to say that missionaries went alone to africa, and start preching sudanese tribes without the help of any army? in which world you are living wyvern, read history better making comments.
Christian missionaries are well known for going into areas where they have a good chance of being killed for their faith. Also of course they didn't have very far to go since the missionaries were koptic, they didn't have to go alone into africa it was their home.
Yeah, they were well-known to kill the people who dont accept their faith, example is Philipines, which was converted to christianity by force

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #297

Post by Wyvern »

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
So you mean to say that missionaries went alone to africa, and start preching sudanese tribes without the help of any army? in which world you are living wyvern, read history better making comments.
Christian missionaries are well known for going into areas where they have a good chance of being killed for their faith. Also of course they didn't have very far to go since the missionaries were koptic, they didn't have to go alone into africa it was their home.
Yeah, they were well-known to kill the people who dont accept their faith, example is Philipines, which was converted to christianity by force
Don't change the subject, we were talking about Sudan not the Phillipines. Do you concede you were wrong? If you want to discuss the wrongs committed by the forces of religious conversion we can do so, just make a new thread devoted to the subject.

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #298

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
So you mean to say that missionaries went alone to africa, and start preching sudanese tribes without the help of any army? in which world you are living wyvern, read history better making comments.
Christian missionaries are well known for going into areas where they have a good chance of being killed for their faith. Also of course they didn't have very far to go since the missionaries were koptic, they didn't have to go alone into africa it was their home.
Yeah, they were well-known to kill the people who dont accept their faith, example is Philipines, which was converted to christianity by force
Don't change the subject, we were talking about Sudan not the Phillipines. Do you concede you were wrong? If you want to discuss the wrongs committed by the forces of religious conversion we can do so, just make a new thread devoted to the subject.
The subject and this issue was brought by you,

Anyway back to topic, bring proof where Muhammad said that worship him, not God, so we can discuss otherwise we can close the debate now.

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #299

Post by Wyvern »

Don't change the subject, we were talking about Sudan not the Phillipines. Do you concede you were wrong? If you want to discuss the wrongs committed by the forces of religious conversion we can do so, just make a new thread devoted to the subject.
The subject and this issue was brought by you,
So do you concede you were wrong? When you try to change subjects it usually means you are wrong but don't want to admit it.
Anyway back to topic, bring proof where Muhammad said that worship him, not God, so we can discuss otherwise we can close the debate now.
Who made this claim? If muslims wouldn't make small prayers to him so often it would not be an issue. Every time pbuh is spoken or written it is a prayer to him asking for peace.

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Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #300

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
Don't change the subject, we were talking about Sudan not the Phillipines. Do you concede you were wrong? If you want to discuss the wrongs committed by the forces of religious conversion we can do so, just make a new thread devoted to the subject.
The subject and this issue was brought by you,
So do you concede you were wrong? When you try to change subjects it usually means you are wrong but don't want to admit it.

I'am still in subject, I gave you reply that in Philipines Christians forced their religion, but you said we are not talking about Philipines, we are talking about Sudan, I posted already that Sudan was also changed to christianity. so its you who change the subject, still I give you replies, but you can;t answer, and always say that its not related to topic:)
Anyway back to topic, bring proof where Muhammad said that worship him, not God, so we can discuss otherwise we can close the debate now.
Who made this claim? If muslims wouldn't make small prayers to him so often it would not be an issue. Every time pbuh is spoken or written it is a prayer to him asking for peace.
I gave explanation that PBUH is for every prophet, whenever a muslim name a prophet, its used pbuh. and this full prayer is also given in post, that its said "May Allah have peace and blessing on him. but in short its writen as (pbuh).
So its God muslims pray to have peace and blessing on a prophet.

Now tell me where does it show that muslims worship Muhammad (pbuh)?

Or to make it easy for you, bring any statement of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), where its said that muslims should woprship him

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