islam is the only truth

[umair]

islam is the only and complete truth, and i would love to entertain any of your questions regarding islam.

[Salt Agent]

Greetings,

Now, Cnorman,

[Quote="Cnorman"] There is more of ethics and morality and FREEDOM and truth and justice, and the nobility and strength of the human spirit, and even of the reality and majesty of God, in The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia or Harry fricken Potter than in the whole Quran.[quote/]

That is a bit extreme don't you say??

OK, take out the part about Harry stinkin Potter, and then I could agree.

And just for the record, Umiar, isn't that the same Koran that says Infidels, [Christians and Jews] should have their hands and feet cut off???

And if I am not mistaken, isn't that the one that says "Your wife is a field, Plow her as you will."....

and isn't that the same one that says "The testimony of a man counts three times as much as that of a woman"?? or was it four.??

And would that be the religion of peace where violence in Denmark is breaking out by Muslims because someone put a cartoon in the paper, and multiple death threats were made? Or where recently Christian missionaries were murdered in Turkey, and then their contacts' and friends' names posted all over Islamic websites,?.... I guess that would be for their protection.

And the honor killings??

Oh, and the pouring of molten solder on the backs and chests of Christians in Sudan?

Or the one where the pope quotes from another article suggesting violence linked to Islam, and then to prove it is peaceful, Muslims around the world protest, and kill some nuns to make their point???

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

"The testimony of a man counts three times as much as that of a woman"?? or was it four.??

Two. Twice as much.

Sura 2 - Al-Baqara [The Cow] Verse 282-282:
282. يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا تَدَايَنْتُمْ بِدَيْنٍ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى فَاكْتُبُوهُ وَلْيَكْتُبْ بَيْنَكُمْ كَاتِبٌ بِالْعَدْلِ وَلا يَأْبَ كَاتِبٌ أَنْ يَكْتُبَ كَمَا عَلَّمَهُ اللَّهُ فَلْيَكْتُبْ وَلْيُمْلِلِ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِ الْحَقُّ وَلْيَتَّقِ اللَّهَ رَبَّهُ وَلا يَبْخَسْ مِنْهُ شَيْئًا فَإِنْ كَانَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِ الْحَقُّ سَفِيهًا أَوْ ضَعِيفًا أَوْ لا يَسْتَطِيعُ أَنْ يُمِلَّ هُوَ فَلْيُمْلِلْ وَلِيُّهُ بِالْعَدْلِ وَاسْتَشْهِدُوا شَهِيدَيْنِ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُونَا رَجُلَيْنِ فَرَجُلٌ وَامْرَأَتَانِ مِمَّنْ تَرْضَوْنَ مِنَ الشُّهَدَاءِ أَنْ تَضِلَّ إِحْدَاهُمَا فَتُذَكِّرَ إِحْدَاهُمَا الأخْرَى وَلا يَأْبَ الشُّهَدَاءُ إِذَا مَا دُعُوا وَلا تَسْأَمُوا أَنْ تَكْتُبُوهُ صَغِيرًا أَوْ كَبِيرًا إِلَى أَجَلِهِ ذَلِكُمْ أَقْسَطُ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَأَقْوَمُ لِلشَّهَادَةِ وَأَدْنَى أَلا تَرْتَابُوا إِلا أَنْ تَكُونَ تِجَارَةً حَاضِرَةً تُدِيرُونَهَا بَيْنَكُمْ فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ أَلا تَكْتُبُوهَا وَأَشْهِدُوا إِذَا تَبَايَعْتُمْ وَلا يُضَارَّ كَاتِبٌ وَلا شَهِيدٌ وَإِنْ تَفْعَلُوا فَإِنَّهُ فُسُوقٌ بِكُمْ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَيُعَلِّمُكُمُ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

Sura 2 - Al-Baqara [The Cow] Verse 282-282:
282. O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Allah that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things.

[achilles12604]

I guess the debate is over.

[Goat]

I guess the debate is over.

I think we frightened them off.

[achilles12604]

I guess the debate is over.

I think we frightened them off.

I still genuinely want answers. I am looking to increase my knowledge. Oh well.

[carolineislands]

And just for the record, Umiar, isn't that the same Koran that says Infidels, [Christians and Jews] should have their hands and feet cut off???

Like this? http://www.terrorists-suck.org/why_suck ... _small.jpg

You know, the Muslim apologists can weave their al-takiyya stories about Islam all they want but a picture is hard to deny.

[umair]

what do you think a nebula is? look up a dictionary

Ok I will. . . .

neb·u·la /ˈnɛbyələ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[neb-yuh-luh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -lae /-ˌli, -ˌlaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-lee, -lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, -las.
1. Astronomy.
a. Also called diffuse nebula. a cloud of interstellar gas and dust. Compare dark nebula, emission nebula, reflection nebula.
b. (formerly) any celestial object that appears nebulous, hazy, or fuzzy, and extended in a telescope view.

Now what?

This is obviously not what you were claiming it was.

So are you done saying that the universe was formed when a nebula split?

well hello,

i am back after a break,

achilles, this is a good challenge lets compare the quranic verses with the definition of the big bang which you presented.

lets leave this job to you.

and don't forget that the quran also tells about the expansion of the universe.

[umair]

"The testimony of a man counts three times as much as that of a woman"?? or was it four.??

Two. Twice as much.

Sura 2 - Al-Baqara [The Cow] Verse 282-282:
282. يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا تَدَايَنْتُمْ بِدَيْنٍ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى فَاكْتُبُوهُ وَلْيَكْتُبْ بَيْنَكُمْ كَاتِبٌ بِالْعَدْلِ وَلا يَأْبَ كَاتِبٌ أَنْ يَكْتُبَ كَمَا عَلَّمَهُ اللَّهُ فَلْيَكْتُبْ وَلْيُمْلِلِ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِ الْحَقُّ وَلْيَتَّقِ اللَّهَ رَبَّهُ وَلا يَبْخَسْ مِنْهُ شَيْئًا فَإِنْ كَانَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِ الْحَقُّ سَفِيهًا أَوْ ضَعِيفًا أَوْ لا يَسْتَطِيعُ أَنْ يُمِلَّ هُوَ فَلْيُمْلِلْ وَلِيُّهُ بِالْعَدْلِ وَاسْتَشْهِدُوا شَهِيدَيْنِ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُونَا رَجُلَيْنِ فَرَجُلٌ وَامْرَأَتَانِ مِمَّنْ تَرْضَوْنَ مِنَ الشُّهَدَاءِ أَنْ تَضِلَّ إِحْدَاهُمَا فَتُذَكِّرَ إِحْدَاهُمَا الأخْرَى وَلا يَأْبَ الشُّهَدَاءُ إِذَا مَا دُعُوا وَلا تَسْأَمُوا أَنْ تَكْتُبُوهُ صَغِيرًا أَوْ كَبِيرًا إِلَى أَجَلِهِ ذَلِكُمْ أَقْسَطُ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَأَقْوَمُ لِلشَّهَادَةِ وَأَدْنَى أَلا تَرْتَابُوا إِلا أَنْ تَكُونَ تِجَارَةً حَاضِرَةً تُدِيرُونَهَا بَيْنَكُمْ فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ أَلا تَكْتُبُوهَا وَأَشْهِدُوا إِذَا تَبَايَعْتُمْ وَلا يُضَارَّ كَاتِبٌ وَلا شَهِيدٌ وَإِنْ تَفْعَلُوا فَإِنَّهُ فُسُوقٌ بِكُمْ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَيُعَلِّمُكُمُ اللَّهُ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

Sura 2 - Al-Baqara [The Cow] Verse 282-282:
282. O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of Allah, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear Allah; For it is Allah that teaches you. And Allah is well acquainted with all things.

do you know i never really felt answering your posts , but this one needed an answer to prevent misconception.


QURAN, 2:282: O Beleivers, when you contract a debt for a fixed term, you should put it in writing.... .....And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents. But if two men are not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her ......
First of all, this applies ONLY to FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS where a debt contract is being put together in writing. Two men are required as the witnesses. But if they're not available then one man and two women, so that if one woman FORGETS something, the OTHER may REMIND HER, not because she's inferior, or her witness is less wrothy of a man.

In another instance, one woman or two men are required as the witnesses. In the Islamic Tradition, if two non-siblings have been breast fed by the same woman, they're considered siblings and thus cannot marry, and are treated as such. In such a case, in order to establish such a relationship, two men or one woman are sufficient as witnesses.

Enemies of Islam abuse the meaning of this verse to try to harrass Muslims and defame Islam by saying, "This means one man, is equal to two women." Or they say, " In all Islamic courts, women's witnesses are worth half of a man's." Theyy would ignore the Islamic law where two men or one woman are required as witnesses. Both of the above allegations are false. If the woman as a witness was worth half that of a man, the verse would have STATED so clearly. But obviously that is not the case. Instead, the reason for 2 women and 1 man as witnesses is that if one woman FORGETS, the other may remind her.

Bearing a witness in an Islamic society is a burden. No Muslim desires to be a witness AGAINST another Muslim, unless it becomes incumbent upon him/her, if required by law. By having two females, as opposed to one female, further protection and encouragement for women is given, to bear witness. Women in an Islamic society are usually not invovled in employment, business transactions, and other such out-of-the-house positions. However, if they desire, they can do so, but most Muslim women prefer to stay inside thier homes. In such a society, a woman is not an expert in business transactions, and is thus prone to forgetfullness. Thus this verse protects the parties in FINANCIAL contracts. And at the same time, gives women another peer to make them more comfortable in bearing and giving witness against a party. Counter-intuitively, this verse actually protects the women from a single being pressured by men, and the parties involved in FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS.

[Below is comparative religion discussion between Bible, and Quran]



Women in Islam VS Judeo-Christian Tradition Bearing witness

Another issue in which the Quran and the Bible disagree is the issue of women bearing witness. It is true that the Quran has instructed the believers dealing in financial transactions to get two male witnesses or one male and two females (2:282). However, it is also true that the Quran in other situations accepts the testimony of a woman as equal to that of a man. In fact in some cases the woman's testimony can even invalidate the man's. If a man accuses his wife of unchastity, he is required by the law (in Quran) to solemnly swear five times as evidence of the wife's guilt. If the wife denies and swears similarly five times, she isn't considered guilty and in either case the marriage is dissolved (24:6-11).

On the other hand, women were not allowed to bear witness in early Jewish society . Women in Today's Israel are not allowed to give evidence in Rabbinical courts because the Talmud says: "Women are temperamentally light-headed" . The Rabbis, also, justify why women can't bear witness by citing Genesis 18:9-16, where it is stated that Sara, Abraham's wife had lied. The rabbis use this incident as evidence that women are unqualified to bear witness. It should be noted here that this story narrated in Genesis 18:9-16 has been mentioned more than once in the Quran without hint of any lies by Sara (11:69-74, 51:24-30).

If a man accuses his wife of unchastity, her testimony will not be considered at all according to the Bible. The accused wife has to be subjected to a trial by ordeal (Numbers 5:11-31). In this trial, the wife faces a complex and humiliating ritual which was supposed to prove her guilt or innocence. If she is found guilty after this ordeal, she will be sentenced to death. Also, if a man takes a woman as a wife and then accuses her of not being a virgin, her own testimony will not count. Her parents had to bring evidence of her virginity before the elders of the town. If the parents couldn't prove the innocence of their daughter, she would be stoned to death on her father's doorsteps. If the parents were able to prove her innocence, the husband will only be fined one hundred shekels of silver and he must not divorce his wife as long as he lives (Deuteronomy 22:13-21). Why should the poor woman live with the man who slandered her in public for the rest of his life?



and apart from this as far as i know the whole process of giving birth has been termed as a punishment for the woman in christianity , and hence a child is born with sin , which he cannot get rid of unless he becomes a christians, is it true or not.


and yes there are many verses of the quran and hadith that speak about the higher rights given to women in comparision with men have you ever read them?


and the most important thing , did you notice that how beautifully islam asks us to deal in business in the verse quoted by you,( might have not!)

[Fred R]

Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammad historically had reproductive traumas as children. Now we know that nerve trauma to the reproductive parts as infants can sometimes lead to paranoid dellusions with audio and visual hallucinations beginning after pubery. How do you know that the voices in these mens heads were not their own brains inner voices dealing with PTSD trying to cure or justify or prevent there traumatic event?

[achilles12604]

what do you think a nebula is? look up a dictionary

Ok I will. . . .

neb·u·la /ˈnɛbyələ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[neb-yuh-luh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -lae /-ˌli, -ˌlaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-lee, -lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, -las.
1. Astronomy.
a. Also called diffuse nebula. a cloud of interstellar gas and dust. Compare dark nebula, emission nebula, reflection nebula.
b. (formerly) any celestial object that appears nebulous, hazy, or fuzzy, and extended in a telescope view.

Now what?

This is obviously not what you were claiming it was.

So are you done saying that the universe was formed when a nebula split?

well hello,

i am back after a break,

achilles, this is a good challenge lets compare the quranic verses with the definition of the big bang which you presented.

lets leave this job to you.

and don't forget that the quran also tells about the expansion of the universe.

Ok so you want us to start completely over and you want me to take the entire burden of proof over again?

LOL

How about you address posts 206-210 first.

You made the claim that the universe was begun by the splitting of the primary nebula (the big bang).

I showed that there is no indication at all the this was the process of the big bang and that there was no nebula at all.

How about you marry this with the Koran first and then we can move on?



I will make it simple for you.

Question: Does the Koran state that the big bang occurred from the "smoke" of a "primary nebula"?