islam is the only truth

[umair]

islam is the only and complete truth, and i would love to entertain any of your questions regarding islam.

[umair]

achilles wrote:

EXACTLY. this is what I have been trying to say the whole time.

well it is clear that at last you are clear on what you wanted to conclude.


well even i consider this as a point of discussion, why do you think that if i am a believer then i will not judge my scripture, i am not a fool to go on believing in anything that is fake.


well the other aspect of the fact is that i am not here to prove my scripture as a book of science , but what i wanted to emphasise on was the fact that quran has no flaws, along with its compatibility with modern science, which other religious scriptures are unable to prove.

the result which others expect from the quran is that it should speak in a scientific language , but why are we unable to see that it is a book of guidance ,along with the fact that any thing mentioned in it is not false.


all of us know that if someone deliberately tries to justify his scripture which is fake , gets trapped then or now.

well try to read the quran and you will notice the difference.

and yes try the other scientific points also.

[achilles12604]

achilles wrote:

EXACTLY. this is what I have been trying to say the whole time.

well it is clear that at last you are clear on what you wanted to conclude.


well even i consider this as a point of discussion, why do you think that if i am a believer then i will not judge my scripture, i am not a fool to go on believing in anything that is fake.


well the other aspect of the fact is that i am not here to prove my scripture as a book of science , but what i wanted to emphasise on was the fact that quran has no flaws, along with its compatibility with modern science, which other religious scriptures are unable to prove.

the result which others expect from the quran is that it should speak in a scientific language , but why are we unable to see that it is a book of guidance ,along with the fact that any thing mentioned in it is not false.


all of us know that if someone deliberately tries to justify his scripture which is fake , gets trapped then or now.

well try to read the quran and you will notice the difference.

and yes try the other scientific points also.

You didn't rebuff the point made by me or wyvern

Post 198 for me. 196ish for wyvern.


Does your interpretation match up with modern science?

No. It does not.

So now we have the clouds which are nothing more than observations, and the big bang cloud which you touted as proof. Neither has held water.

So shall we continue? What further evidence do you suggest we look at?

[umair]

You didn't rebuff the point made by me or wyvern

Post 198 for me. 196ish for wyvern.


Does your interpretation match up with modern science?

No. It does not.

So now we have the clouds which are nothing more than observations, and the big bang cloud which you touted as proof. Neither has held water.

So shall we continue? What further evidence do you suggest we look at?

well have a look at it again:


1)CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:
‘THE BIG BANG’

According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe was
initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there
was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which
resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then
divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon,
etc.
The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding
the origin of the universe:
“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]
The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse
and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book,
which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400
years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?


2)INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE
CREATION OF GALAXIES

Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the
universe were formed, celestial matter was
initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short,
huge gaseous matter or clouds were present
before the formation of the galaxies. To describe
initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more
appropriate than gas. The following Qur’anic verse
refers to this state of the universe by the word
dukhaan
which means smoke.
“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]
Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and
was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of
Muhammad (Peace be upon him).




so the thing we need to see here that you have been repeating is

the word dense cloud is nowhere,


and yes what the facts above are scientific and not any layman's observations.

[Goat]

You didn't rebuff the point made by me or wyvern

Post 198 for me. 196ish for wyvern.


Does your interpretation match up with modern science?

No. It does not.

So now we have the clouds which are nothing more than observations, and the big bang cloud which you touted as proof. Neither has held water.

So shall we continue? What further evidence do you suggest we look at?

well have a look at it again:


1)CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:
‘THE BIG BANG’

According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe was
initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there
was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which
resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then
divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon,
etc.
The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding
the origin of the universe:
“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]
The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse
and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book,
which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400
years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?


2)INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE
CREATION OF GALAXIES

Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the
universe were formed, celestial matter was
initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short,
huge gaseous matter or clouds were present
before the formation of the galaxies. To describe
initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more
appropriate than gas. The following Qur’anic verse
refers to this state of the universe by the word
dukhaan
which means smoke.
“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]
Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and
was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of
Muhammad (Peace be upon him).




so the thing we need to see here that you have been repeating is

the word dense cloud is nowhere,


and yes what the facts above are scientific and not any layman's observations.

It sounds like poetic talking about spiritual items that are incorrectly retrofited into current knowledge (and very vaguely too). It looks like an inkblot test to me.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

Similar to the much–vaunted ‘pesher’ prophecies of the Dead Sea Sects and, after them, early Christians. To me it shows a remarkable disrespect for the scripture to twist its meaning to fit into current scientific understanding. Imagine if, instead of the big bang, people still believed in the ‘steady state’ theory — would muslims find passages in the Qur’ân which they would tout as proof that Islâm knew about it 1,400 years ago?

[achilles12604]

My dear umair there was no primary nebula.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

THIS IS NOT THE DESCRIPTION OF A NEBULA.

So where does this leave Islam and its amazing claims regarding the big bang. Science does not adhere to a primary nebula being split.

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/


Now, do you have anything further to say or is the big bang matter (pun intended) closed?

[umair]

My dear umair there was no primary nebula.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

THIS IS NOT THE DESCRIPTION OF A NEBULA.

So where does this leave Islam and its amazing claims regarding the big bang. Science does not adhere to a primary nebula being split.

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/


Now, do you have anything further to say or is the big bang matter (pun intended) closed?

well ,

i am sorry i might have been using an older definition of the big bang,


but the matter does not end here , have a look at the verses again

“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]


“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]



and here is the new definition :


The Big Bang is a cosmological model of the universe which has the primary assertion that the universe has expanded into its current state from an initial state of infinite density and temperature. The term is also used in a narrower sense to describe the rapid expansion of spacetime that started at or close to an initial event in the history of our observed spacetime. The term 'Big Bang' was first coined by Fred Hoyle, ironically, in a derisory statement seeking to belittle the credibility of the theory which he did not believe to be true.

Theoretical support for the Big Bang comes from mathematical models, called Friedmann models. These models show that a Big Bang is consistent with general relativity and with the cosmological principle, which states that the properties of the universe should be independent of position or orientation.

Analysis of the spectrum of light from galaxies reveals a shift towards longer wavelengths proportional to each galaxy's distance in a relationship described by Hubble's law. Furthermore the accidental discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation in 1964 suggested that the universe had cooled from an initial hot dense state via the expansion of space-time. The discovery of the cosmic microwave background led to general acceptance among physicists that the Big Bang describes the evolution of the universe reasonably well. Further evidence which supports the Big Bang is the relative proportion of light elements in the universe, which is a close match to predictions for the formation of light elements in the first minutes of the universe, according to Big Bang nucleosynthesis. However there are features of the universe which are not well explained by the Big Bang model such as the similarity of regions of the universe which, within the scope of the model, have never been causally connected. Augmenting the Big Bang model with an early rapid inflationary phase can explain many of the features unaccounted for by the standard Big Bang model.



i suspect that how much you try , the quran is always true.

[achilles12604]

My dear umair there was no primary nebula.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

THIS IS NOT THE DESCRIPTION OF A NEBULA.

So where does this leave Islam and its amazing claims regarding the big bang. Science does not adhere to a primary nebula being split.

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/


Now, do you have anything further to say or is the big bang matter (pun intended) closed?

well ,

i am sorry i might have been using an older definition of the big bang,


but the matter does not end here , have a look at the verses again

“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]


“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]



and here is the new definition :


The Big Bang is a cosmological model of the universe which has the primary assertion that the universe has expanded into its current state from an initial state of infinite density and temperature. The term is also used in a narrower sense to describe the rapid expansion of spacetime that started at or close to an initial event in the history of our observed spacetime. The term 'Big Bang' was first coined by Fred Hoyle, ironically, in a derisory statement seeking to belittle the credibility of the theory which he did not believe to be true.

Theoretical support for the Big Bang comes from mathematical models, called Friedmann models. These models show that a Big Bang is consistent with general relativity and with the cosmological principle, which states that the properties of the universe should be independent of position or orientation.

Analysis of the spectrum of light from galaxies reveals a shift towards longer wavelengths proportional to each galaxy's distance in a relationship described by Hubble's law. Furthermore the accidental discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation in 1964 suggested that the universe had cooled from an initial hot dense state via the expansion of space-time. The discovery of the cosmic microwave background led to general acceptance among physicists that the Big Bang describes the evolution of the universe reasonably well. Further evidence which supports the Big Bang is the relative proportion of light elements in the universe, which is a close match to predictions for the formation of light elements in the first minutes of the universe, according to Big Bang nucleosynthesis. However there are features of the universe which are not well explained by the Big Bang model such as the similarity of regions of the universe which, within the scope of the model, have never been causally connected. Augmenting the Big Bang model with an early rapid inflationary phase can explain many of the features unaccounted for by the standard Big Bang model.



i suspect that how much you try , the quran is always true.

So are you giving up on the Nebula now? You were so certain before.

[umair]

My dear umair there was no primary nebula.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

THIS IS NOT THE DESCRIPTION OF A NEBULA.

So where does this leave Islam and its amazing claims regarding the big bang. Science does not adhere to a primary nebula being split.

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/


Now, do you have anything further to say or is the big bang matter (pun intended) closed?

well ,

i am sorry i might have been using an older definition of the big bang,


but the matter does not end here , have a look at the verses again

“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]


“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]



and here is the new definition :


The Big Bang is a cosmological model of the universe which has the primary assertion that the universe has expanded into its current state from an initial state of infinite density and temperature. The term is also used in a narrower sense to describe the rapid expansion of spacetime that started at or close to an initial event in the history of our observed spacetime. The term 'Big Bang' was first coined by Fred Hoyle, ironically, in a derisory statement seeking to belittle the credibility of the theory which he did not believe to be true.

Theoretical support for the Big Bang comes from mathematical models, called Friedmann models. These models show that a Big Bang is consistent with general relativity and with the cosmological principle, which states that the properties of the universe should be independent of position or orientation.

Analysis of the spectrum of light from galaxies reveals a shift towards longer wavelengths proportional to each galaxy's distance in a relationship described by Hubble's law. Furthermore the accidental discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation in 1964 suggested that the universe had cooled from an initial hot dense state via the expansion of space-time. The discovery of the cosmic microwave background led to general acceptance among physicists that the Big Bang describes the evolution of the universe reasonably well. Further evidence which supports the Big Bang is the relative proportion of light elements in the universe, which is a close match to predictions for the formation of light elements in the first minutes of the universe, according to Big Bang nucleosynthesis. However there are features of the universe which are not well explained by the Big Bang model such as the similarity of regions of the universe which, within the scope of the model, have never been causally connected. Augmenting the Big Bang model with an early rapid inflationary phase can explain many of the features unaccounted for by the standard Big Bang model.



i suspect that how much you try , the quran is always true.

So are you giving up on the Nebula now? You were so certain before.

what do you think a nebula is? look up a dictionary

[achilles12604]

what do you think a nebula is? look up a dictionary

Ok I will. . . .

neb·u·la /ˈnɛbyələ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[neb-yuh-luh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -lae /-ˌli, -ˌlaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-lee, -lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, -las.
1. Astronomy.
a. Also called diffuse nebula. a cloud of interstellar gas and dust. Compare dark nebula, emission nebula, reflection nebula.
b. (formerly) any celestial object that appears nebulous, hazy, or fuzzy, and extended in a telescope view.

Now what?

This is obviously not what you were claiming it was.

So are you done saying that the universe was formed when a nebula split?