Allah, Gabriel & Muhammad are one?

[Burninglight]

Why do Muslims attack the Christian trinity? They have there own in many ways. There are the three daughters of Allah also known as "the flying cranes whose intercession is hoped for." This is a verse that Uthman abrogated from the Quran. It was a hard thing for Uthman to leave in the Quran after Muhammad's death. Allah had to cancel out Muhammad's Satanic verse. No prophet ever made a mistake like this before Muhammad's time. How could he get away with it? These videos make an argument that the unholy trinity of Islam is Allah, Gabriel and Muhammad. It states they are one and the same. If this is so, do Muslims attack the Christianity trinity only to turn a blind eye to their own unholy trinity?

[A Troubled Man]

Instead of completely blocking out anything that speaks against the ‘trinity’ why not try and prove the ‘trinity’ is the truth. Why not explain to Muslims the verses they keep bringing up to refute such a doctrine? Why not speak about the solidarity of the text and explain the contradictions within it? Why not explain the anonymity of the authors? Why not explain the various versions and why the translation is still the word of God? Why not explain when the Bible was written?

If you have true faith in your religion, you would go out and learn about why people find problems in your scripture, read about those problems and then increase your faith by showing them that their conclusions are false. You would 'debate' their claims with evidence and reason. Surely just ignoring everyone else is not even doing yourself justice.

LOL! That is pretty much what we are saying to YOU about Islam.

[Burninglight]

@A Burninglight: Hey again!

Yes and also their animals! I don't fully understand this, but if someone asked me to explain, I would say God had it done to evil nations who reared their children to be worse then themselves; it could have been His way of cutting out a cancer that was spreading too far and fast on the earth. I don't know.

This makes sense, then again, I don’t agree with killing young children. Too young to understand the concept of good and evil. There are many alternatives to saving this young child then to mercilessly kill him/her. Why not show them a miracle? Or guide them when they are older? Why completely kill them? And animals? For goodness sake. You even described this God as being ‘terrible’. Islam is completely against this view of God. We believe He is All-Loving and Merciful.

I understand you don’t know exactly why and respect your explanation.

In pre Islamic history Muslims worshipped the moon god Allah and even today Islam has its roots in paganistic pre Islam history and rituals.

Huh? Moon God? I have studied Islamic history, maybe you could shed some light on this? Also evidence for pre-Islamic rituals in Islam today would also be appreciated.

They still carry the symbol of the crescent moon on top of their Mosques of worship

If this is your reason for the ‘moon God’ then Im sorry to say you are highly mistaken. Where do you learn about Islam?

Muhammad gave false prophecies such as hoping for the intercession of the flying cranes (Allah's three daughters)

Where do you possibly find such remarks and beliefs? This doesn’t even make sense.

True prophets of God never made these mistakes. If they did they were stoned.

Prophets stoned? What do you mean?

Uthman burned the original Qurans that had these false prophecies in them, but if you asked me, I'd say get rid of all the Qurans period.

Yes he did burn copies of the Qur’an that were written by people who did not confirm the written copy with an authentic source – the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Everyone who wrote down a verse needed to check that it is accurate with the Prophet. This was to avoid corruption and changes being passed down to other generations.

If they had anything false that would be the reason for their burning, to preserve the original correct text. How can you claim such copies had prophecies if they were burnt? How are they ‘original’ Qur’ans? Also the Qur’an didn’t come down as one book, but came down as a series of revelations that were then compiled at the time of Uthman, by Uthman. So where are these ‘original Qur’ans’ that you speak of? He was the first to compile the Surahs into a book.

And burn all the Qur’ans? Why?

It has done no good for the world at all. The world witnesses only evil from it.

Comon, ok seriously now, you gotta tell me where you are reading this stuff. If you would like some reliable sites that speak about the ‘real’ Islam I can help you out.

Even if Muslims only did good, it still contradicts the Bible or the Scriptures that came before. That alone is wicked beyond words especially when it is claiming to be part of the Abrahamic faith.

Instead of completely blocking out anything that speaks against the ‘trinity’ why not try and prove the ‘trinity’ is the truth. Why not explain to Muslims the verses they keep bringing up to refute such a doctrine? Why not speak about the solidarity of the text and explain the contradictions within it? Why not explain the anonymity of the authors? Why not explain the various versions and why the translation is still the word of God? Why not explain when the Bible was written?

If you have true faith in your religion, you would go out and learn about why people find problems in your scripture, read about those problems and then increase your faith by showing them that their conclusions are false. You would 'debate' their claims with evidence and reason. Surely just ignoring everyone else is not even doing yourself justice.

By the way, we believe in the Gospel sent to Jesus (peace be upon him).

Muhammad is not a confirmed prophet. Muslims tell me he is a descendant of Ishmael, No one could prove that for sure, but even if he were, Ishmael was no prophet and no prophets come out of him according to the Bible in Gen 21:12. In fact, Ishmael was blessed by God but reject as the child of promised. He was cast out with his slave mother.

OK when we debate, citing your Bible as a reference doesn’t really help. More effective is to probably show me that my own Qur’an says the Prophet is not a Prophet. This is what Muslims do with Christians, we cite their own Bible to show them that Jesus (peace be upon him) was not God, with their own scripture, thus there is a common ground between the two people.

Maybe that is why Muslims consider themselves slaves of Allah. Jesus is born of the free, and he calls us no longer servants but friends.

Muslims believe we are also the friends of God. But we must also realize that He has created us so we will always be in submission to his will. This is what Muslims means. A servant submits to the will of His Creator.

I mean you no offense, but Christianity carries an offensive message to all even me, but I believe it is the truth.

I don’t believe Christianity carries an offensive message at all. I believe its followers are great people and loving neighbors. Christians will always be my friends. I believe it is those who take such a peaceful religion and bend it to make it offensive to everyone else but themselves. When these people do this, I wonder if they even care for the salvation of mankind or not.

And if you believe it is truth, do yourself justice by learning why people have problems with it and then debate them.

Jesus is the only truth for the salvation of our souls. Islam misses the mark!

I respect your opinion, however I would like to make it very clear, that you have completely misunderstood Islam and I highly suggest you read about it from a different source than that which you are currently using.

There are many comments and questions here which one or two do you want to deal with first in detail?

[Peace]

@A Troubled Man:

LOL! That is pretty much what we are saying to YOU about Islam.

LOL! And that is exactly what I am doing, I find out about people's problems with the religion and then debate in a civilised manner.

The problems you keep raising up I have studied all too much and it seems to me you have a small ignorance when it comes to Sharia and Islamic rulings. You also have a habit of not basing any of your claims with evidence, when the burdern of proof is on you, thus I cannot possibly take you seriously.

I would be more than happy to address any problems you find in our teachings, but you haven't even bothered to look.

[Peace]

@Burninglight:

There are many comments and questions here which one or two do you want to deal with first in detail?

I think it would be easier if you took each point in detail. Starting in order. Maybe through discussion we will find a topic that we both hold dear to that we can debate properly.

As for Islam, did you read anything else like I advised? I really suggest it Burninglight, I have no idea where you could possibly hear of such things.

[A Troubled Man]

You also have a habit of not basing any of your claims with evidence, when the burdern of proof is on you, thus I cannot possibly take you seriously.

Of course not, even after providing you with information on mountains and how they are formed, you still continued to argue in favor of "pegs" because that's what it said in your holy book. You have no interest whatsoever in learning anything beyond your holy books.

[Peace]

@A Troubled Man:

Of course not, even after providing you with information on mountains and how they are formed, you still continued to argue in favor of "pegs" because that's what it said in your holy book. You have no interest whatsoever in learning anything beyond your holy books.

If you don't mind I think we should keep the argument about the Qur'an in the thread I started where we are discussing such issues, this thread belongs to someone else and we are discussing something different.

I have a huge interest in science and am a student myself. I will continue studying it as it is a passion of mine. I am not rejecting your article, the small one from cliff notes, merely just pointing out that that one page isn't going to contain all the information in the world. I showed you through other articles how mountains are described as having 'roots', e.g. the geological society and Wikipedia. These roots are described as part of the mountain hence 'mountain roots' - search it on Google.

Now when we look to the Qur'an that said mountains are like pegs, I am showing you how that is miraculous. Mountains when looked at in light of their roots, look very similar to pegs. I am not saying that mountains are pegs, or that they are made out of pegs or that pegs support the mountains or that all the mountains in the world are just pegs, or that geology is wrong. I am showing you how the Qur'an describes their appearance and that seems pretty remarkable.

If you think mountains with roots don't look like pegs that is your opinion, there is no call to say that 'religions have no interest in learning beyond their Holy Books'. That is not fair.

Hope this has helped

[Burninglight]

You also have a habit of not basing any of your claims with evidence, when the burdern of proof is on you, thus I cannot possibly take you seriously.

Of course not, even after providing you with information on mountains and how they are formed, you still continued to argue in favor of "pegs" because that's what it said in your holy book. You have no interest whatsoever in learning anything beyond your holy books.

Not only that Muhammad/Allah (I run the names together because Muhammad is his slave associate/messenger) taught in the Quran that the sky is held up with pillars that cannot be seen and the stars hang from it as lamps. Muhammad was obviously influenced by Roman belief. Too bad the Romans had it all wrong.

[A Troubled Man]

I am not rejecting your article, the small one from cliff notes, merely just pointing out that that one page isn't going to contain all the information in the world.

No one said it did contain all the information in the world, just enough to show you the claims from the Quran are nonsense.

I showed you through other articles how mountains are described as having 'roots', e.g. the geological society and Wikipedia. These roots are described as part of the mountain hence 'mountain roots' - search it on Google.

So what? Here are the claims from the Quran...

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (Quran, 78:6-7)

And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you... (Quran, 16:15)

I don't see anything regarding roots there, but instead some nonsensical description regarding pegs. As well, mountains don't stop earthquakes, and we actually find many earthquake zones have a lot of mountains, they are interconnected due to how mountains are formed.

Please stop that ridiculous nonsense about pegs and the Quran.

Now when we look to the Qur'an that said mountains are like pegs, I am showing you how that is miraculous. Mountains when looked at in light of their roots, look very similar to pegs.

So, somebody way back then looked at a particular mountain, decided it was shaped like a peg and wrote it in a book, and that is miraculous.

...geology is wrong. I am showing you how the Qur'an describes their appearance and that seems pretty remarkable.

LOL! Total dishonesty.

Hope this has helped

Yes, yet another Islamic propagandist has been revealed.

[Burninglight]

@A Troubled Man:

If you don't mind I think we should keep the argument about the Qur'an in the thread I started where we are discussing such issues, this thread belongs to someone else and we are discussing something different.

Well, it could be that issues with the Quran can show how Allah, Muhammad and Gabriel are possible one and the same or a man influenced by Satan who is the father of lies. I understand that Muslims believe the Quran dates back to the time of Muhammad.

As far back as we can go show the completed Quran manuscript we have in existence in museums today are hundreds of years after Muhammad died, but Muslims claim this:
"...two of the copies of the Qur’an which were originally prepared in the time of Caliph `Uthman, are still available to us today and their texts and arrangement can be compared, by anyone who cares to, with any other copy of the Qur’an, be it in print or handwriting, from any place or period of time. They will be found to be identical." (Von Denffer, Ulum al-Qur’an, p 64)
If this were true why would Uthman burn the originals?

Muslims say they have a Quran that dates to the time of Muhammad,the truth is different.

"Two ancient partial copies of Koran that are in existence are the Samarqand MSS is in Tashkent, and the MSS housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul. What many Muslim's do not know, is that because these two manuscripts were written in a script style called "Kufic", practicing Muslim scholars generally date these manuscripts no earlier than 200 years after Muhammad died. Had these two manuscripts been compiled any earlier, they would have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script style. John Gilchrist, in his book, "Jam' Al-Qur'an" came to this same conclusion. (John Gilchrist, Jam' Al-Qur'an, Jesus to the Muslims, 1989)"

Even the fragmentary manuscripts of the Quran are all dated no earlier than 100 years after Muhammad died; moreover, there is no archeological evidence dated at the time when Muhammad was alive, by way of artifact, manuscript or inscription has ever been found were Muhammad is actually referred to as "a prophet".

I believe the Torah that states that Ishmael was no prophet hence Muslims' claim that Muhammad descended from him means he is still waiting for his prophet passport, but don't hold you breath.

If you really want God's word the closet thing we have is the Bible. It goes back way before Muhammad

[Peace]

@A Troubled Man:

No one said it did contain all the information in the world, just enough to show you the claims from the Quran are nonsense.

I'm sorry, I know that Mountains have roots as proven scientifically and just because cliff notes doesn't have anything about 'mountain roots' doesn't mean they don't exist.

So what? Here are the claims from the Quran...

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (Quran, 78:6-7)

And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you... (Quran, 16:15)

I don't see anything regarding roots there, but instead some nonsensical description regarding pegs.

Now that you have realised the fact that some Mountains have roots, we can discuss the verses in question. A mountain is described as a peg. In Arabic we can draw is it pointing out that the Mountains resemble pegs. When we look at a mountain in light of its roots, we can find the resemblance with 'pegs'.

As well, mountains don't stop earthquakes, and we actually find many earthquake zones have a lot of mountains, they are interconnected due to how mountains are formed.

Is this a proven fact that mountains don't stop earthquakes? Where did you learn about such a teaching? The fact is it has not been disproven or proven yet so we can't say it is wrong.

Your scientific reasoning behind 'earthquake zones having alot of mountains' and thus they don't stop earthquakes is wrong. It is like saying that a lake is not one of the sources of rain as the rain doesn't occur above a lake. As we know the water evaporates and moves in the atmosphere as clouds to other regions, where it eventually falls again.

Maybe mountains prevent severe earthquakes elsewhere, maybe they relieve crust stresses or maybe they stabilize the rotation of the Earth the same way ball bearings stabilize the rotation of a wheel. The fact is, it hasn't been disproven.

So, somebody way back then looked at a particular mountain, decided it was shaped like a peg and wrote it in a book, and that is miraculous.

Yes! The point is, 1400 years ago you could not see that a Mountain had roots without scientific equipment. You would have to dig all around the mountain all the way to the tip of the root (physically impossible), test the densities of the materials under the mountain and conclude that mountains had roots so they resemble pegs. The miracle is, they didn't have scientific equipment so how did the Prophet (pbuh) find out?

...geology is wrong. I am showing you how the Qur'an describes their appearance and that seems pretty remarkable.

LOL! Total dishonesty.

I am willing to overlook the fact that you are misquoting me to prove your stance if you can continue to debate in a civilized manner. Here is my full quote for whoever else that may read this:

I am not saying that mountains are pegs, or that they are made out of pegs or that pegs support the mountains or that all the mountains in the world are just pegs, or that geology is wrong. I am showing you how the Qur'an describes their appearance and that seems pretty remarkable.

Hope this was helpful!