Islam

canadianhorsefan · Post by **canadianhorsefan** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:34 am

Well, just want to see if anyone is interested why Islam is right.

canadianhorsefan

canadianhorsefan · Post by **canadianhorsefan** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:48 am

Let me make one thing clear. Jesus (pbuh) is a respected prophet. However, he is NOT God's son. How can Allah have begotten a son? Well, if he really was Allah in the first place, well, he could have said, "Here, come here you guys. I'm going to tell you everything about the Bible. Then, I'll go get crucified to die for your sins. Yes, death by your own Creator is needed. No, I can't just send revelations to a person and teach you how to be good people. Your own Creator has got to die for you. What? I could forgive all your sins in an instant? Oh no, I just want to shed my blood, and die, so you can be forgiven."

Okay, he wouldn't have said the same thing, but.......you get my point.

Let's see from a different angle. How do I know he wasn't crucified? The Qur'an. How do I know the Qur'an is true? Well, there are things in it. For example, it talks about embryology and space. No wait, they knew all that stuff 1400 years ago. Maybe they cut people up and sent human cannonballs into space. Sorry if I'm sarcastic, but I just want you to see the truth, okay?

canadianhorsefan

canadianhorsefan · Post by **canadianhorsefan** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:52 pm

And what about the people who believe in Islam? Where do they go when they die? If they do not believe that Jesus was God's son and that he was not the one that died on the cross, where is the redemption in that? How are they going to get to heaven?

They get to heaven by believing in Allah and the Revelations he sent to the Prophets. And those who believe Allah has begotten a son will go to hell.

canadianhorsefan

Illyricum · Post by **Illyricum** » Mon May 17, 2004 4:05 pm

canadianhorsefan wrote:Let me make one thing clear. Jesus (pbuh) is a respected prophet. However, he is NOT God's son.

In the Bible, God (who you would call Allah) said "This is my Son, whom I love."(Mark 9:7) He himself proclaimed that Jesus was his son.

How can Allah have begotten a son?

I have to admit that's not an easy question to answer and I don't claim to exactly have it all figured out ( since I also believe there is only one God) the best
explanation I believe is this: (this is God speaking)
"Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations." Matthew 12:18

It says "I have put my spirit in him", Jesus was God just in human clothes, does this make since?

Well, if he really was Allah in the first place, well, he could have
said, "Here, come here you guys. I'm going to tell you everything about the Bible. Then, I'll go get crucified to die for your sins. Yes, death by your own Creator is needed. No, I can't just send revelations to a person and teach you how to be good people. Your own Creator has got to die for you. What? I could forgive all your sins in an instant? Oh no, I just want to shed my blood, and die, so you can be forgiven."

Okay, he wouldn't have said the same thing, but.......you get my point.

No, I'm not sure if I do, correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound if you're saying that we don't need anybody to die for us. If that's what you're trying to say then I disagree with you, the Bible says "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). None of us deserve to get into heaven, we are all sinners, we all fall short of the glory of God. One can not get into heaven simply by good works, someone has to take our place (someone who is perfect and never sinned), someone else has to take the punishment if we are not going to hell, someone has to die and rise again, conquering death, in order for us to have a relationship with God and go to heaven. There is no other way, Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Let's see from a different angle. How do I know he wasn't crucified? The Qur'an. How do I know the Qur'an is true? Well, there are things in it. For example, it talks about embryology and space. No wait, they knew all that stuff 1400 years ago. Maybe they cut people up and sent human cannonballs into space.

That still doesn't prove your point that the Qur'an is true. Please give more evidence.

Sorry if I'm sarcastic, but I just want you to see the truth, okay?

And I only want you to see the truth, canadianhorsefan. There is nothing more that I want then for other's to see the truth.

Illyricum · Post by **Illyricum** » Mon May 17, 2004 4:19 pm

canadianhorsefan wrote:
And what about the people who believe in Islam? Where do they go when they die? If they do not believe that Jesus was God's son and that he was not the one that died on the cross, where is the redemption in that? How are they going to get to heaven?
They get to heaven by believing in Allah and the Revelations he sent to the Prophets. And those who believe Allah has begotten a son will go to hell.

canadianhorsefan

Wait a minute, I thought Muslims believed that Jesus was a prophet sent by God(Allah), and Jesus prophesied
"He(Jesus) then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again." (Mark 8:31)

But Muslims obviously don't believe that Jesus died and rose again, so doesn't that mean since that they don't believe the revelations of the prophets he sent them that they're not going to heaven??

canadianhorsefan · Post by **canadianhorsefan** » Wed May 19, 2004 9:48 am

Wait a minute, I thought Muslims believed that Jesus was a prophet sent by God(Allah)

We do believe that, but we do not believe he is Allah or Allah's son.

In the Bible, God (who you would call Allah) said "This is my Son, whom I love."(Mark 9:7) He himself proclaimed that Jesus was his son.

How are you so sure the Bible is correct? I heard a guy named Paul added tons of stuff, like the Trinity and Jesus (pbuh) being Allah's son.

It says "I have put my spirit in him", Jesus was God just in human clothes, does this make since?

Well, who created us? Allah. And from what? From Himself. He created out sould from Himself. Make sense?

No, I'm not sure if I do, correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound if you're saying that we don't need anybody to die for us.

No, you're right. Why should someone die for us? Well, why would he say Allah has forsaken him? Allah would never forsake his on Messenger. He rose him onto Himself. And, when the Day of Judgement comes, he will return to Earth and die a natural death (he never died).

That still doesn't prove your point that the Qur'an is true. Please give more evidence.

Give more evidence than embryology? The leading embryologist in the world was convinced this was true and became a Muslim himself! And considering that at the time, the Arabs were a backward society and no microscopes were made until the 1600's, I think it's safe to assume that the Qur'an is from Allah.

canadianhorsefan

Illyricum · Post by **Illyricum** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:15 pm

canadianhorsefan wrote:
Wait a minute, I thought Muslims believed that Jesus was a prophet sent by God(Allah)
We do believe that, but we do not believe he is Allah or Allah's son.

Just curious, but, what exactly did he prophesy? I know what the Bible says what he prophesied but what do Muslims believe he said?

How are you so sure the Bible is correct?

There are really so many answers to that, but I'll stick with this one. I have to say the main reason I believe the Bible is true and written by God [through people] is the power and life in it. The Bible says this "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." ( 2 Timothy 3:16-17) The Bible is not some old book written some thousands of years ago, it's God's words, the Bible is alive!! I have felt God use the Bible to speak to me, I have seen the power of it when it is being quoted. What evidence do you have that it's not true?

I heard a guy named Paul added tons of stuff, like the Trinity and Jesus (pbuh) being Allah's son.

Well, it's true that there are books in the Bible written by a person named Paul, but the words he wrote we're the ones God gave him, he didn't make up the trinity or Jesus being God's son

It says "I have put my spirit in him", Jesus was God just ue
in human clothes, does this make since?

Well, who created us? Allah. And from what? From Himself. He created out sould from Himself. Make sense?

No, not really. Well, I mean, I believe that God created us and everything but are you saying that verse was saying Jesus was just another person God created?

He created out sould from Himself.

Somethings missing in this sentence.

No, you're right. Why should someone die for us?

Please don't tell me you expect to get into Heaven just because you're "good" ? You don't think you can get into Heaven by just good works, do you? If you do, here's the problem with that: we've all sinned, at one time or another, all of us have done something wrong, you don't have to be a murder or a thief to be a sinner, you could have just told one little lie one time and you're a sinner. So, how can you get into Heaven if you're a sinner?

Give more evidence than embryology? The leading embryologist in the world was convinced this was true and became a Muslim himself! And considering that at the time, the Arabs were a backward society and no microscopes were made until the 1600's, I think it's safe to assume that the Qur'an is from Allah.

And what about the Bible? The Bible has stuff like that as well (have you ever read Leviticus?), does the Qur'an have the same power as the Bible as I described above?

Corvus · Post by **Corvus** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:39 pm

No, you're right. Why should someone die for us?
Please don't tell me you expect to get into Heaven just because you're "good" ? You don't think you can get into Heaven by just good works, do you? If you do, here's the problem with that: we've all sinned, at one time or another, all of us have done something wrong, you don't have to be a murder or a thief to be a sinner, you could have just told one little lie one time and you're a sinner. So, how can you get into Heaven if you're a sinner?

Does this mean children, who, early in their lives are basically amoral, will go to hel if they die? Will babies go to hell because of original sin?

Post by **otseng** » Wed May 19, 2004 10:50 pm

Corvus wrote: Does this mean children, who, early in their lives are basically amoral, will go to hel if they die? Will babies go to hell because of original sin?

A question debated by many theologians and laymen over the years. Anybody want to start a thread on this?

canadianhorsefan · Post by **canadianhorsefan** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:39 pm

I think that is an interesting topic to debate.

canadianhorsefan

Post by **otseng** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:18 pm

canadianhorsefan wrote:I think that is an interesting topic to debate.

canadianhorsefan

I've started a new thread - Where do babies go after they die?

Debating Christianity and Religion

Islam

Do you believe in Allah(God)?

Islam