What is absolute truth? Define it in your terms!

[Madeline]

What is absolute truth? and how would you define it according to your beliefs. To me absolute truth is revealed to me in the book called the bible. It is the standard on how we should live and what our purpose is here on earth.

Love,
Madeline

[McCulloch]

Jesus gave an example of what I am referring to:

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? [Matthew 7:8-11]

Read the passage carefully. Jesus here promises that if you ask God for a good thing (bread, fish, etc) he will not respond by giving you a bad thing (stone, serpent). There is no teaching in this passage about what God will do if you ask for a bad thing. You might infer such a teaching, but it is not in the text.

Everything I asked according to God's will has come to pass. I prayed for the salvation of friends and family and they came to pass. I prayed for a good job so that I may be able to feed the homeless, it came to pass. I prayed for a quiter home so I may be able to study God's word more in-depth, it came to pass. These are among the inumerable amount of prayers which has come to pass.

This really does not prove anything. Any prayer that you make that is not answered, you can dismiss as not being God's will. You pray for X, and then X comes true: God answers prayer. You pray for Y, and then Y does not come true: Y must not be God's will. No matter if the prayer is fulfilled or not, you're covered.

[Madeline]

I disagree! Why would a Holy and Just God give his children anything negative? The context shows that he is referring to 'His' Children, not unbelievers. Why would a father give his daughter or son something which will only cause them harm? Hmmm...

And your equation is a faulty analogy. All the prayers which has failed to comes to pass were not his will, this is a a realization found in scriptures. E.G., I wanted soooo bad to have sex but I wasn't married. God obviously didn't answer that prayer because that would be fornication. I can give you plenty more examples. But the prayers that were answered were aligned with the scriptures, all of them were answered.

Love,
Madeline

[jwu]

That is his personal interpretation based on lack of scriptural knowledge. He is missing pieces of the puzzle. If we take the entire OT into consideration we can see that Ezekiels Prophecy has nothing to do with the Jews returning to their land in 537 B.C. Please take a look at this, it goes into greater detail and substantiates that the prophecy was fulfilled in 1948.

Regarding Ezekiel's prophecies...how about the destruction of Tyre?

Ezekiel 26:14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.


Supposedly it was to be completely destroyed and never rebuilt...but Jesus and Paul both visited it, a few hundred years after these prophecies were supposed to have been fulfilled (by its destruction by Alexander the Great...but it was rebuilt).

Matthew 15:21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

Mark 7:24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid.

Acts 21:3 Now when we had discovered Cyprus, we left it on the left hand, and sailed into Syria, and landed at Tyre: for there the ship was to unlade her burden.


Today Tyre is the fourth largest city of Lebanon.

[QED]

Madeline, you clearly use logical deduction in your conclusions about God answering your prayers. How does that same logic deal with the inevitable situations that must confront people in desperate need of their prayers being answered? You must know from your own charitable work that there simply isn't enough charity to go round in the world. Why would God's mercy be rationed like this? Take Africa for instance, OK it's pretty messed up on an number of accounts but there are large populations of deeply religious folks with many a deserving prayer going unanswered. I appreciate that we can quite easily rationalize this sort of apparent inconsistency by believing it to be God moving in mysterious ways or having higher plans etc. but if only one child starves to death despite her mothers prayers I fail to see how you can remain secure in your beliefs. I would like to know how this works for you?

[Madeline]

]Regarding Ezekiel's prophecies...how about the destruction of Tyre?

Ezekiel 26:14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.


Supposedly it was to be completely destroyed and never rebuilt...but Jesus and Paul both visited it, a few hundred years after these prophecies were supposed to have been fulfilled (by its destruction by Alexander the Great...but it was rebuilt).

Matthew 15:21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

Mark 7:24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid.

Acts 21:3 Now when we had discovered Cyprus, we left it on the left hand, and sailed into Syria, and landed at Tyre: for there the ship was to unlade her burden.


Today Tyre is the fourth largest city of Lebanon.

Not at least to it's former glory. The fishing village can barely count. Old Tyre has been bare as a rock for 2500 years as God said, even though 10 million gallons of fresh water supply the site daily with enough water for a city. The city has not been rebuilt even today.

The Destruction of Tyre

I believe that you have been misinformed.

Love,
Madeline

[McCulloch]

God has revealed Himself in the Bible without error. The Bible itself claims this inerrancy.

In other words, the Bible is true, because the Bible says that it is true.

Nelson Glueck, a respected Jewish archaeologist claims: "It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contradicted a biblical reference ."

Hardly proof. No archaeological discovery has ever contradicted Newton's Principia Mathematica. That does not make it God breathed or without error. Why do you start with a proof that only goes as far as to say that it does not contradict a specified field of knowledge and does not prove that it is without error?

A.N. Sherwin-White, a respected classical historian at Oxford says about the book of Acts, "For Acts the confirmation of historicity is overwhelming...any attempt to reject its basic historicity even in matters of detail must now appear absurd." (7)

Like the resurrection from the graves of many saints during the crucifixion?

He [Jesus] is mentioned by many contemporary, non-Christian historians. Let us look at the evidence. [...]

Most of the alleged non-Christian references to the historical Jesus are much weaker than the apologists claim. Many are simply fraudulent. But even so, proving that an historical man, named Jesus (a rather common name at the time) while perhaps necessary, is not enough to support your claim of biblical inerrantcy. How about providing a non-Christian witness to any of the alleged miracles or of the resurrection or of the ascension into heaven or of any of the post resurrection appearances?

Recent scientific evidence is adding to the evidence supporting the reliability of biblical chronology from the scriptures. This study demonstrated the reliability of the Biblical record regarding the Egyptian plagues and demise of Jericho.

Again, the Bible being not wrong on a particular point does not make it absolutely true. Convenient just how apologists will accept Carbon 14 dating to support their pet theories but dismiss the same method when it brings into question their ideas of the age of the Earth, the global flood and the number of years humanity has existed.

The next proof is the Bible's uniqueness and unity. The Bible was written by over 40 authors who came from just about every walk of life conceivable, including fisherman, kings, a butler, priests, and a tax collector. The 66 books of the Bible were written over a 1,500 year span in three languages on three continents with one theme and no contradictions.

I have to call you on this one. If the Bible has but one theme, it may be because the various committees that selected and edited the collection cherry picked from available documents. It has not been proven that the Bible is without contradiction.

Yet another reason Christians believe God is the ultimate author of the Bible is the predictive prophecies in the Bible. This aspect is unique to the world's religions because if one predicts something will happen and it does not, they are proven to be phony. The Bible is literally filled with detailed prophecies that have been fulfilled with 100% accuracy.

Yes, writers intimately familiar with messianic prophesy creating biographies of Jesus, in order to promote their new religion, writing years after the events that are reporting on include details of his life that seem to be fulfillments of those prophesies. I would say that in those circumstances, it would be quite surprising if the descriptions of Jesus life did not fulfill those prophesies.

"I will make you [Tyre] a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of nets. You will be built no more, for I the LORD have spoken," declares the Lord GOD. [...]"you will never be found again," declares the Lord GOD.

Yet, by the time that the New Testament was written, Tyre was inhabited. Acts 21:3, 7. It is even now still inhabited.

[Madeline]

Madeline, you clearly use logical deduction in your conclusions about God answering your prayers. How does that same logic deal with the inevitable situations that must confront people in desperate need of their prayers being answered? You must know from your own charitable work that there simply isn't enough charity to go round in the world. Why would God's mercy be rationed like this? Take Africa for instance, OK it's pretty messed up on an number of accounts but there are large populations of deeply religious folks with many a deserving prayer going unanswered. I appreciate that we can quite easily rationalize this sort of apparent inconsistency by believing it to be God moving in mysterious ways or having higher plans etc. but if only one child starves to death despite her mothers prayers I fail to see how you can remain secure in your beliefs. I would like to know how this works for you?

I'm not a world savior, I'm merely an instrument of God. The bible says that all Christians are united as One Body, and that is the Body of Christ. I alone cannot have the ability to help the needy all around the world, however I can be of some service to God by helping those in my area. The people of God are dispersed throughout the world and even in the remotest parts of Africa to help those in need. My duty is in my area, so this is how God uses me. As for starvation, God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith. Actually lacking certain things can truly humble oneself and help is to rely solely on God.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

James 2:5 - Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Love,
Madeline

[Madeline]

McCulloch, I will get back to you and answer your post. But I promise to think long and hard before doing so. Don't want to make and mistakes.

Love,
Madeline

[Madeline]

In other words, the Bible is true, because the Bible says that it is true.

No because Trial and Error! I put the bible to the test personally and applied its teachings. I not only opened my mind, but I opened my heart. Gods SPIRIT testifies that the bible is true. Do you have God's Spirit?

The Inspiration of the Bible:

What the Bible claims for itself

Look at 2 Timothy 3:16. The Bible states there that " A All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." The word "inspiration" means "God-breathed." The Bible claims that its words are God's Words; it records Him speaking. Look at Matthew 4:4:

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Here Jesus Christ is speaking about the Bible, as an examination of the verses before and after 4:4 demonstrates. He states that man is to live by every "word" of the Bible, for each one "proceedeth out of the mouth of God." In fact, look at what He said in Matthew 5:17-18:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Here, Christ spoke about the "law and the prophets" (the Old Testament, the part of the Bible that had already been written; sometimes it was also called "the law," as you can see by comparing v. 17 and v. 18). The "jot" was the smallest letter in the Hebrew language, the yod, just like the "i" is our smallest English letter. The "tittle" referred to the smallest details of the Hebrew text; it would be similar to the dot on the "i." Christ said that the Bible was so sure that, as it were, not one "i" or even the dot on the "i" would pass away! The Bible clearly claims that its own words are inspired.

Furthermore, the entire Bible from cover to cover is God's Word; there are no parts that are "less inspired" then others. Look back again at 2 Timothy 3:16. Note that it says that "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God." The whole Book, from Genesis to Revelation, is God's perfect Word.

Peter gives us a powerful statement about the inspiration of the Bible in 2 Peter 1:16-21:

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The apostle Peter was with Jesus Christ throughout His ministry upon the earth, was with Him in the times surrounding His crucifixion, and was an eyewitness of His resurrection and His ascension back to heaven. He assures the readers of 2 Peter that he and the other apostles did not just make everything up, or follow "cunningly devised fables," and testifies that he had been an eyewitness to the "majesty" of Christ. He then refers to a time when was with Jesus Christ in the "holy mount" and he heard the voice of the heavenly Father. This refers to what took place in Matthew 17:1-9; go ahead and read the verses over there. You will see that the Lord Jesus took Peter up a mountain with James and John, and appeared to them in His glory. You will also notice in Matthew 17:5 the statement "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," which Peter quotes again in the passage we are talking about, 2 Peter 1:16-21. Peter had heard the actual audible voice of God the Father! We can only imagine how incredible that must have been; no wonder that he and the other disciples, when they heard it, "fell on their face, and were sore afraid" (Matthew 17:6). However, here in 2 Peter chapter one, he says that the "prophecy of the Scripture" (v. 20) is "more sure" (v. 19) than even the audible voice of God! How highly Peter viewed the Scriptures! Every word, phrase, line, chapter, and book is God speaking. Furthermore, note that Peter in 2 Peter 1:20 says that the Scripture is not "of any private interpretation." This means that we cannot say that anything in the Bible is "just how you interpret it" or "just how I interpret it." It means exactly what it says, and it has one correct interpretation, the one that God meant when He inspired it. Think about it. God gave us the Bible so that we can learn about Him; do you think He would make it so that nobody could understand what He said, or people could have thousands of conflicting "interpretations" of it that were all "true," even though they all totally contradicted each other? We don't say "that's just your interpretation of the law" to a police officer when he pulls us over for running a red light or speeding—we know it will not work. God says that we can't say that with His Word either. Finally, in 2 Peter 1:21, we find out how God used man to write the Bible. The words of the Bible did not come "in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." The human writers of Scripture were not writing whatever they wanted, but the Holy Spirit controlled them so that their very words were God's. We can compare God's authorship and the human recording of the Bible to what we do when we write a letter with a pen. The words of our letter are our words, but it is the pen that actually puts our words on the paper. Just like that, God wrote the Bible, but He used "holy men of God" as His "pens." We can see this process described in Acts 4:24-25: "And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?." God's servant David wrote the words that follow in Acts 4:25, which quotes Psalm 2:1. However, it was God who really said it "by [David's] mouth." Since the Bible is, from cover to cover, the Word of God, and Titus 1:2 tells us that God "cannot lie," we can be sure that everything the Bible says about God, life, history, science, and everything else is entirely free from error. We can say, as Jesus Christ said in prayer to God the Father, "thy word is truth" (John 17:17). Considering all of this, we should have the utmost reverence and respect for the Holy Bible. God says, "to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word" (Isaiah 66:2).

We have seen what the Bible claims for itself. However, cannot someone say, "These claims are all very well, but I could write a book and claim that its very words were God's words as well; how do we know that the Bible is any better than something I could just make up?" This is an important question. What evidence do we have for these Biblical claims?

The Inspiration of the Bible:

Evidences for it

First of all, we have internal evidence for the inspiration of the Bible. The Bible is self-attesting—it claims to be the very Word of God, and all who read it know that it is so—however, those that do not wish to submit to the God of the Bible suppress that knowledge. In John chapter 7, the enemies of Jesus Christ sent officers to arrest Him, but they did not do as they were commanded. They were then asked "Why have ye not brought him?" (John 7:45). John 7:46 says, "The officers answered, Never man spake like this man." The people who heard Jesus preach, according to Matthew 7:28-29, "were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." In Luke 4:22, "all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth." The Bible is the Word of God, and all who read it know it to be so deep within. Hebrews 4:12 states that the Word of God is "quick [which means living], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Jesus Christ in John 7:17 that "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." All who are willing to follow God, when they come to the Bible with a willing and a seeking heart, will know that it is indeed the Word of God, just as it claims. The fundamental question is not intellectual; as we will see by the end of this study, the evidence for the Bible's inspiration is so overwhelming that those who reject it are "Professing themselves to be wise, [but] they [are] fools"; (Romans 1:22). The fundamental issue is moral; are we willing to submit to God and the Bible? Are we willing to do His will? If we are, we will "know of the doctrine, whether it be of God" or not. If we are not, we will always be able to think up some flimsy excuse to do what we want to do. 2 Peter 3:3 says that there would "come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts." They do not reject the Bible because of a lack of evidence, but, knowing that it was true, they rejected the evidence so that they would not have to give up their sins. The Bible simply is the Word of God—and when God speaks, man knows He has spoken. If you read the Bible with an open heart and mind you must admit that this is true.

The Bible also has powerful external evidences. It contains many scientific facts. For example, many hundreds of years before science could confirm it, the Bible stated:

The world is round. Isaiah 40:22, " It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."
The earth hangs in space. Job 26:7, "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."
The ocean has currents. Psalm 8:8 refers to the "the path of the seas," and Isaiah 43:16 to "a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters."
The importance of blood for life. Leviticus 17:11 states that "the life of the flesh is in the blood."
Air has weight. Job 28:25, "To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure."
No new matter is being created, as the First Law of Thermodynamics affirms. After His work of creation, Genesis 2:2 states that "God ended his work which he had made."
The universe is running down, as the Second Law of Thermodynamics affirms. Psalm 102:25-27 state, "Of old thou hast laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.
If this is not enough evidence to prove that the Bible is God's inspired word, then nothing is.

Now how do you like that?

Love,
Madeline

[jwu]

Not at least to it's former glory. The fishing village can barely count. Old Tyre has been bare as a rock for 2500 years as God said, even though 10 million gallons of fresh water supply the site daily with enough water for a city. The city has not been rebuilt even today.

Don't you see how that website backpedals? Tyre consists of both parts, they try to focus on one of it and handwave away the rest. But according to the prophecy there should be absolutely nothing left.

I believe that you have been misinformed. Wink

The Bible itself states that people visited Tyre afterwards...and besides, that "fishing village" has a population of more than 100,000 people.


And even if it was just a fishing village - there shouldn't be one stone upon the other. "thou shalt be built no more" is an absolute and definite statement which does not allow for fishing villages either (and in Biblical times today's fishing villages were full towns).

As a matter of fact, Tyre exists today, no matter how you try to turn it. It shouldn't according to that prophecy. Not even a single house.

First of all, we have internal evidence for the inspiration of the Bible. The Bible is self-attesting—it claims to be the very Word of God, and all who read it know that it is so—however, those that do not wish to submit to the God of the Bible suppress that knowledge.

All who read it know that it is so? That's a strong claim, and i actually take offence from that. I am a Christian, but there was a time when i was not, even though i had read it. You're accusing me of having suppressed that knowledge - which i simply didn't have, and i still don't think that the Bible is God's word. It even only states that it's inspired, not that it's God's literal word, and the respective passages only talk about the OT too...Paul and the others quite certainly were not talking about the NT when they said things like "all scripture is God breathed". The NT was not even written when they made these statements, and of course they were not talking about their own statements being scripture with that either.

The Bible also has powerful external evidences. It contains many scientific facts. For example, many hundreds of years before science could confirm it, the Bible stated:

The world is round. Isaiah 40:22, " It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."

Actually a circle is not a sphere, and the analogy with the tent clearly marks that this is talking about a flat earth.

The importance of blood for life. Leviticus 17:11 states that "the life of the flesh is in the blood."

It's quite obvious to anyone that without blood people and animals die...It has been well known for many thousands of years that cutting arteries is lethal.

Air has weight. Job 28:25, "To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure."

Anyone who runs down a hill fast enough learns this, the pressure on the eardrums is just as if one was diving. And water is known to have a weight.

They do not reject the Bible because of a lack of evidence, but, knowing that it was true, they rejected the evidence so that they would not have to give up their sins.

How does that make sense? If one supposedly knows it to be true, then just pretending as if it wasn't wouldn't change anything.