As an atheist, I cannot sin. I don't believe there are such things as "sins".
I know what I believe to be good and bad, and I don't have a real problem doing what I believe to be good, and I don't have a real problem not doing what I believe to be bad.
I am under no threat of eternal damnation, cause I don't believe in it.
So seriously, if you believe that your eternal soul could possibly be damned for all time, wouldn't it be easy not to sin?
Sinning
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Re: Sinning
Post #21[Replying to post 13 by amortalman]
You're a Christian. Stop pretending to be otherwise. It's a lie. Your god would not be happy with you.
Sorry, I apologize, Your god IS not happy with you.
I'm assuming.... based on what I know you people think about your god.
You're a Christian. Stop pretending to be otherwise. It's a lie. Your god would not be happy with you.
Sorry, I apologize, Your god IS not happy with you.
I'm assuming.... based on what I know you people think about your god.
Re: Sinning
Post #22Wait, are you suggesting that someone else's religion is a better way to experience life? Are you suggesting that your reality isn't actually your own? Are you suggesting that you're proud of that? Are you a slave of some sort? Do you not have a mind of your own?
Let me guess, you gave up your own mind the minute you adopted someone else's? But we shouldn't be upset cause the mind you gave your's up for was "Jesus's"..... or at least that's what it said in the brochure/scripture.
Re: Sinning
Post #23[Replying to post 14 by Divine Insight]
Christianity claims for itself the title of new covenant. According to the prophecies regarding the new covenant, God through his Spirit would imprint on the believers heart complete knowledge regarding his saving will. So if this is true then no Christian is with excuse regarding ignorance of what is required. For Christians there is no sin unintentional sin of ignorance. If they sin it is always intentional.
Christianity claims for itself the title of new covenant. According to the prophecies regarding the new covenant, God through his Spirit would imprint on the believers heart complete knowledge regarding his saving will. So if this is true then no Christian is with excuse regarding ignorance of what is required. For Christians there is no sin unintentional sin of ignorance. If they sin it is always intentional.
1 Corinthians 10:12-13New International Version (NIV)
12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13 No temptation[a] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[c] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
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ttruscott
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Re: Sinning
Post #24You are in fact saying that because you don't believe, then you have no sin because there is no GOD but IF there is a GOD no matter what you believe then you are guilty no matter what you believe.Mr.Badham wrote:In order to sin, there must be someone to sin against.... god. I simply don't believe there is anyone to sin against.
As far as creating reality, I have no idea what you mean by that?
The fact of the existence of GOD is not dependent upon your belief...
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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amortalman
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Re: Sinning
Post #25[Replying to post 21 by Mr.Badham]
Why are you so riled? Your response is clearly ad hominem. I didn't attack you, I attacked your argument. I stated from the beginning that I was only playing the devil's advocate and only to help you see what I believe to be a flaw in your thinking. How are you to carry on a civilized debate if all you do is insult the other person and call them a liar? This is obviously the way you "debate" Christians. That's a shame because we're supposed to have a respectful discourse here. A Christian will never consider what you have to say with that kind of attitude.
Why are you so riled? Your response is clearly ad hominem. I didn't attack you, I attacked your argument. I stated from the beginning that I was only playing the devil's advocate and only to help you see what I believe to be a flaw in your thinking. How are you to carry on a civilized debate if all you do is insult the other person and call them a liar? This is obviously the way you "debate" Christians. That's a shame because we're supposed to have a respectful discourse here. A Christian will never consider what you have to say with that kind of attitude.
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Hector Barbosa
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Re: Sinning
Post #26[Replying to post 15 by Mr.Badham]
Who says you have to believe in divinity to transgress? And how can you have objective morality without a objective moral giver?
Makes no sense for you to even believe in morals or a right or wrong, if you do not believe in a objective authority.
Whether you believe something is a sin or not is irrelevant, the consequence is the same. You might say I don't believe I will be burned if I touch the hot stove, but that still does not change the fact that if you touch it you will
You admit you can not produce ultimate good, so any hope of good you have is really a shot in the dark. Including the notion that you think I have a so called God.
I have not made that claim, nor am I convinced by the argument.
But the argument of a God makes a heck of a lot more sense than the argument of something out of nothing which there is 0 evidence of anywhere.
Just like there is 0 evidence of true morality existing if there is not a moral giver.
I don't believe ISIS is following a God, if anything they are following deluded ideas or a devil, and though I think they are dangerous I am not worried about them for they can not take anything from me I am not sure to loose anyway.
But we do agree on one thing. "lottery is a tax on the stupid" Good to know we both have a limit to our stupidity and is avoiding that "sin"
Who says you have to believe in divinity to transgress? And how can you have objective morality without a objective moral giver?
Makes no sense for you to even believe in morals or a right or wrong, if you do not believe in a objective authority.
Whether you believe something is a sin or not is irrelevant, the consequence is the same. You might say I don't believe I will be burned if I touch the hot stove, but that still does not change the fact that if you touch it you will
You admit you can not produce ultimate good, so any hope of good you have is really a shot in the dark. Including the notion that you think I have a so called God.
I have not made that claim, nor am I convinced by the argument.
But the argument of a God makes a heck of a lot more sense than the argument of something out of nothing which there is 0 evidence of anywhere.
Just like there is 0 evidence of true morality existing if there is not a moral giver.
I don't believe ISIS is following a God, if anything they are following deluded ideas or a devil, and though I think they are dangerous I am not worried about them for they can not take anything from me I am not sure to loose anyway.
But we do agree on one thing. "lottery is a tax on the stupid" Good to know we both have a limit to our stupidity and is avoiding that "sin"
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Elijah John
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Post #27
Mr.Badham wrote: [Replying to post 13 by amortalman]
You're a Christian. Stop pretending to be otherwise. It's a lie. Your god would not be happy with you.
Sorry, I apologize, Your god IS not happy with you.
I'm assuming.... based on what I know you people think about your god.
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My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Re: Sinning
Post #28[Replying to post 1 by Mr.Badham]
If you have never sinned, then you shouldn't experience the death of your body.
If you have never sinned, then you shouldn't experience the death of your body.
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Plumbus Grumbo
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Re: Sinning
Post #29There's no objective morality. Morlity is subjective. But objective standards can exist without their being a "designer" or "giver" of that objective standard.Hector Barbosa wrote: [Replying to post 15 by Mr.Badham]
Who says you have to believe in divinity to transgress? And how can you have objective morality without a objective moral giver?
Makes no sense for you to even believe in morals or a right or wrong, if you do not believe in a objective authority.
Ridiculous. It's perfectly sensible to believe in right and wrong without believing in an objective authority.
Plenty of bad guys get away with harming others/children without ever being found out or punished. Your analogy would be accurate if many times people touching hot stoves suffered no consequences.Whether you believe something is a sin or not is irrelevant, the consequence is the same. You might say I don't believe I will be burned if I touch the hot stove, but that still does not change the fact that if you touch it you will
Quite false. There is no "ultimate number" yet we use numbers just fine trillions of times every day.You admit you can not produce ultimate good, so any hope of good you have is really a shot in the dark. Including the notion that you think I have a so called God.
I have not made that claim, nor am I convinced by the argument.
Why? Why just those two possible "answers?"But the argument of a God makes a heck of a lot more sense than the argument of something out of nothing which there is 0 evidence of anywhere.
And zero evidence of "true morality," or a "moral giver."Just like there is 0 evidence of true morality existing if there is not a moral giver.
Fine.I don't believe ISIS is following a God, if anything they are following deluded ideas or a devil, and though I think they are dangerous I am not worried about them for they can not take anything from me I am not sure to loose anyway.
But we do agree on one thing. "lottery is a tax on the stupid" Good to know we both have a limit to our stupidity and is avoiding that "sin"
Post #30
[Replying to post 2 by OnceConvinced]
[center]Maybe I just wanna sin[/center]
Sin is supposed to be a moral category, but morality is only a PART of the concept of sin.
What a sin really is... something that the Bible god doesn't like.
It could be disobeying him.
That's a very big sin, apparently. God really insists on being obeyed, doesn't he?
I'm not convinced that I would automatically WANT to obey that god.. because I don't think that god is particularly MORAL.
I think of the god of the Bible as an evil, crazy, psychopath.
Not someone I would feel moral to obey very much.
So, in a way, ( maybe a strange catty way ) it's hard for me NOT to "sin".
I don't find it all that hard to be moral most of the time, though.
SIN ≠IMMORAL ACT
SIN = ANGERS GOD
[center]Maybe I just wanna sin[/center]
Sin is a RELIGIOUS category, lets not forget that.OnceConvinced wrote: I agree, sinning is not easy at all. In fact there are many things I could not possibly do because I would struggle with the morality of it. I would be continually beating myself up over those things.
It's way easier as far as I can see to be non-sinful. It gives me way less anguish and makes me feel good about myself.
Sin is supposed to be a moral category, but morality is only a PART of the concept of sin.
What a sin really is... something that the Bible god doesn't like.
It could be disobeying him.
That's a very big sin, apparently. God really insists on being obeyed, doesn't he?
I'm not convinced that I would automatically WANT to obey that god.. because I don't think that god is particularly MORAL.
I think of the god of the Bible as an evil, crazy, psychopath.
Not someone I would feel moral to obey very much.
So, in a way, ( maybe a strange catty way ) it's hard for me NOT to "sin".
I don't find it all that hard to be moral most of the time, though.
SIN ≠IMMORAL ACT
SIN = ANGERS GOD
