What did philosophy really do to Christianity?

[mickiel]

"One of the most influential professors in the shaping of contemporary theology was Peter Abelard, (1079-1142). He is partly responsible for giving us modern theology. His teachings set the table and prepared the menu for scholastic philosophers like Thomas Aquinas, ( 1225-1274). Even before this Christianity became steeped in the thoughts of Plato and Aristotle.

The shocking historical fact is that many of the Christian church fathers were pagan philosophers and orators prior to their conversions, and the Christian faith soon began to take on a philosophical bent." ( Frank Viola pg.202).

( Much of this thread will draw from Frank Violas " Pagan Christianity", Eusebius" The history of the church", Boggs " The Christian Saga" and Rowdon " Theological education in historical perspective.") And from my own views of course. And I will draw on a few websites and articles, which I will always list the references.

Viola states, on Pg.203, " Within a century and a half after Christianity and Philosophy first came into contact, the ideas and methods of Philosophy had flowed in such mass into Christianity, and filled so large a place in it, as to have made it no less a Philosophy than a religion." Which when I read, was absolutely stunning!

When Philosophy got into the Christian bloodstream, especially Pagan philosophy, the Christian Theological Education system has never recovered from it. The fusion of Pagan and Christian elements, became a " Theology unto itself"; ( The term " Theology" used to describe Pagan beliefs).

[Closingaccountreadgmailna]

In my view , God never established a religion to represent him ,I do not see that in scripture. Jesus established a church ,but after he left that church slowly became mixed with paganism and philosophy , and morphed into something that Jesus is against.

Do you think majority understand what the Church teachings are? Probably not. Has Jesus teachings then leave the Church? No. Jesus is still the head of the Church. People of all faith can come to the Church. That doesn't mean that the Church worships Hindu deities. Read and listen the liturgy. There is only One God.

[mickiel]

In my view , God never established a religion to represent him ,I do not see that in scripture. Jesus established a church ,but after he left that church slowly became mixed with paganism and philosophy , and morphed into something that Jesus is against.

Do you think majority understand what the Church teachings are? Probably not. Has Jesus teachings then leave the Church? No. Jesus is still the head of the Church. People of all faith can come to the Church. That doesn't mean that the Church worships Hindu deities. Read and listen the liturgy. There is only One God.

Jesus view of HIS churches; Rev.2: 4 "I have something against you", Rev. 2:15 " You have doctrines I hate." Rev. 2:20 " I have things against you." This is what Jesus said ,and its opposite of what you are saying.

[marco]

Jesus view of HIS churches; Rev.2: 4 "I have something against you", Rev. 2:15 " You have doctrines I hate." Rev. 2:20 " I have things against you." This is what Jesus said ,and its opposite of what you are saying.

This is not the view of Jesus but the interpretation of a text that is of dubious authenticity and certainly of questionable meaning. You happily take the metaphors "first love" and "Jezebel" to mean what you want them to mean. You can do that if you want but don't attribute your interpretation to Christ.

[Closingaccountreadgmailna]

In my view , God never established a religion to represent him ,I do not see that in scripture. Jesus established a church ,but after he left that church slowly became mixed with paganism and philosophy , and morphed into something that Jesus is against.

Do you think majority understand what the Church teachings are? Probably not. Has Jesus teachings then leave the Church? No. Jesus is still the head of the Church. People of all faith can come to the Church. That doesn't mean that the Church worships Hindu deities. Read and listen the liturgy. There is only One God.

Jesus view of HIS churches; Rev.2: 4 "I have something against you", Rev. 2:15 " You have doctrines I hate." Rev. 2:20 " I have things against you." This is what Jesus said ,and its opposite of what you are saying.

Read Mathew 16, 13-20. Also I suggest you get a copy of liturgy, or go to Sunday mass (you know third commandment not suggests you to do so, but commands you to go and it's a mortal sin if you haven't heared that before).

Is Church perfect? Yes. Are we perfect? No. Remember, Jesus is the head of the Church, not a man. Are priests perfect? No. The question you want to ask is am I perfect? How is my virtue helping others? Do I know what virtue is?

Faith my brother is for the strong.

[Peds nurse]

Moderator Warning

Read Mathew 16, 13-20. Also I suggest you get a copy of liturgy, or go to Sunday mass (you know third commandment not suggests you to do so, but commands you to go and it's a mortal sin if you haven't heared that before).

Okay Rosary, we all understand how very passionate you are to your faith. I too am very passionate....BUT, this IS a debating site, my friend. Telling someone to attend Sunday Mass, or that is sinful not to, isn't debating, it is preaching. Perhaps, this isn't the forum in which to unleash your passion.

If you need help in understanding the difference between preaching and debating, PM the moderators. We would be happy to help you.


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[ttruscott]

The point of the early thinkers who became the first philosophers was to find by reason the way the world worked for all things without resorting to or in fact specifically trying to destroy human reliance upon myths, especially GOD myths, to explain things.

When philosophers converted, they brought their reasoning into the Church to support the Spiritual aspect of reality but reasoning can only lead one astray from the true Spirituality behind the reality of our existence because it stops with one's own thoughts (though endlessly arguing about the exactitudes, niceties and red herrings of the topic) and does not look for nor accept the thoughts, communication nor leading from GOD, and that is what happened.

Philosophers in the Church are the new Pharisees replacing legalism with fatwah type dogma called creeds.

[mickiel]

In my view , God never established a religion to represent him ,I do not see that in scripture. Jesus established a church ,but after he left that church slowly became mixed with paganism and philosophy , and morphed into something that Jesus is against.

Do you think majority understand what the Church teachings are? Probably not. Has Jesus teachings then leave the Church? No. Jesus is still the head of the Church. People of all faith can come to the Church. That doesn't mean that the Church worships Hindu deities. Read and listen the liturgy. There is only One God.

Jesus view of HIS churches; Rev.2: 4 "I have something against you", Rev. 2:15 " You have doctrines I hate." Rev. 2:20 " I have things against you." This is what Jesus said ,and its opposite of what you are saying.

Read Mathew 16, 13-20. Also I suggest you get a copy of liturgy, or go to Sunday mass (you know third commandment not suggests you to do so, but commands you to go and it's a mortal sin if you haven't heared that before).

Is Church perfect? Yes. Are we perfect? No. Remember, Jesus is the head of the Church, not a man. Are priests perfect? No. The question you want to ask is am I perfect? How is my virtue helping others? Do I know what virtue is?

Faith my brother is for the strong.

The scriptures in Revelations are there for any to read; Jesus clearly gives his opinion of the condition of HIS churches; and he had things against most of them.

And I don't think that has changed; in fact, I think its gotten worse. But that's just my view.

[marco]

And I don't think that has changed; in fact, I think its gotten worse. But that's just my view.

I think that most discerning people ignore Revelation as the work of someone drunk or deranged. It is rather insulting to Jesus to suggest he had anything to do with this den of dragons and monsters and lakes of fire. It is a mystery why it was eventually accepted into mainline scripture. There is hope, then, for the inclusion of Harry Potter.

[mickiel]

And I don't think that has changed; in fact, I think its gotten worse. But that's just my view.

I think that most discerning people ignore Revelation as the work of someone drunk or deranged. It is rather insulting to Jesus to suggest he had anything to do with this den of dragons and monsters and lakes of fire. It is a mystery why it was eventually accepted into mainline scripture. There is hope, then, for the inclusion of Harry Potter.

Harry Potter is already in the bible, its called the imagination of men. I totally disagree that "Most discerning people ignore Revelations", I think 84 % of the worlds population pay some attention to it.

[marco]

And I don't think that has changed; in fact, I think its gotten worse. But that's just my view.

I think that most discerning people ignore Revelation as the work of someone drunk or deranged. It is rather insulting to Jesus to suggest he had anything to do with this den of dragons and monsters and lakes of fire. It is a mystery why it was eventually accepted into mainline scripture. There is hope, then, for the inclusion of Harry Potter.

Harry Potter is already in the bible, its called the imagination of men. I totally disagree that "Most discerning people ignore Revelations", I think 84 % of the worlds population pay some attention to it.

That would be surprising if it were true. Do you mean 84% of Christians? A priest I conversed with put no trust in it. But remember, I said "discerning people" - and multitudes give no guarantees of discernment. Far from it. If evidence you seek, have a look at Islamic theocracies.