"One of the most influential professors in the shaping of contemporary theology was Peter Abelard, (1079-1142). He is partly responsible for giving us modern theology. His teachings set the table and prepared the menu for scholastic philosophers like Thomas Aquinas, ( 1225-1274). Even before this Christianity became steeped in the thoughts of Plato and Aristotle.
The shocking historical fact is that many of the Christian church fathers were pagan philosophers and orators prior to their conversions, and the Christian faith soon began to take on a philosophical bent." ( Frank Viola pg.202).
( Much of this thread will draw from Frank Violas " Pagan Christianity", Eusebius" The history of the church", Boggs " The Christian Saga" and Rowdon " Theological education in historical perspective.") And from my own views of course. And I will draw on a few websites and articles, which I will always list the references.
Viola states, on Pg.203, " Within a century and a half after Christianity and Philosophy first came into contact, the ideas and methods of Philosophy had flowed in such mass into Christianity, and filled so large a place in it, as to have made it no less a Philosophy than a religion." Which when I read, was absolutely stunning!
When Philosophy got into the Christian bloodstream, especially Pagan philosophy, the Christian Theological Education system has never recovered from it. The fusion of Pagan and Christian elements, became a " Theology unto itself"; ( The term " Theology" used to describe Pagan beliefs).
What did philosophy really do to Christianity?
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Post #81
[Replying to post 77 by mickiel]
If the magic works on you, it should ( if it's slap loaded ) work on me too. Do you think what you consider great would move me just as much?
I've been trying to UNDERSTAND Christians and their Bible love for years now.
Can you help me out?
I've heard this kind of thing a lot, you know. I am a BIT skeptical that it's "oh so awesome". So, I'm wondering if you could think about it a bit and come up with ONE of your favorites bits of wisdom.. chapter and verse... and why you think it's so slap loaded with Revelation. What, exactly IS sprinkling?mickiel wrote: Oh I disagree , the bible is slap loaded with Revelation; but to each his own sight ,things like that just have to be seen. I think truth or revelation of it, is like sprinkling salt all over the world , but it only lands in certain people and takes differing levels of roots.
If the magic works on you, it should ( if it's slap loaded ) work on me too. Do you think what you consider great would move me just as much?
I've been trying to UNDERSTAND Christians and their Bible love for years now.
Can you help me out?
Post #82
[Replying to mickiel]
"The term Christian was a Roman insult that got planted inside of the church, like a Trojan horse inside of their minds, they embraced the insult as their church identity. "
The NT tells us that we are 'Christ's'.
To be Christ's is to be Christian.
Ridiculous to see it any other way.
"The term Christian was a Roman insult that got planted inside of the church, like a Trojan horse inside of their minds, they embraced the insult as their church identity. "
The NT tells us that we are 'Christ's'.
To be Christ's is to be Christian.
Ridiculous to see it any other way.
Post #83
[Replying to post 81 by Blastcat]
I am not a Christian ,but I like books ; the bible is my favorite.
I am not a Christian ,but I like books ; the bible is my favorite.
Post #84
Monta wrote: [Replying to mickiel]
"The term Christian was a Roman insult that got planted inside of the church, like a Trojan horse inside of their minds, they embraced the insult as their church identity. "
The NT tells us that we are 'Christ's'.
To be Christ's is to be Christian.
Ridiculous to see it any other way.
God said his people would be called by his own name; God's name is not Christian.
Post #86
Look at the book of Proverbs , and if you do not see its wisdom , then your just speaking against the bible verbatim.Blastcat wrote:Why do you think it's so full of wisdom?mickiel wrote: [Replying to post 81 by Blastcat]
I am not a Christian ,but I like books ; the bible is my favorite.
I see a lot of foolishness, too.
Post #87
[Replying to post 86 by mickiel]
I'm not sure what you mean by "speaking against the Bible verbatim". I'm talking about what the Bible contains and those are words... right?
Blastcat wrote: Why do you think it's so full of wisdom?
I see a lot of foolishness, too.
Can you give us an example of the wisdom you find in Proverbs? There is a lot of wisdom in Aesop's fables, too. Is that the kind of wisdom you're talking about?mickiel wrote:
Look at the book of Proverbs , and if you do not see its wisdom , then your just speaking against the bible verbatim.
I'm not sure what you mean by "speaking against the Bible verbatim". I'm talking about what the Bible contains and those are words... right?
Post #88
Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 86 by mickiel]
Blastcat wrote: Why do you think it's so full of wisdom?
I see a lot of foolishness, too.Can you give us an example of the wisdom you find in Proverbs? There is a lot of wisdom in Aesop's fables, too. Is that the kind of wisdom you're talking about?mickiel wrote:
Look at the book of Proverbs , and if you do not see its wisdom , then your just speaking against the bible verbatim.
I'm not sure what you mean by "speaking against the Bible verbatim". I'm talking about what the Bible contains and those are words... right?
Here are some examples;
http://www.biblestudytools.com/topical- ... le-verses/
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... 2:17-24:34
To say the bible does not contain wisdom is either foolish, or ignorance of the book.
One of the reasons why the bible has been a best selling book for over 400 years running , is its wisdom.
Post #89
[Replying to post 88 by mickiel]
Well, I can surely read parts of the Bible any time that I want to, so I must be a fool. I fail to see how something like Psalm 37:30 could be considered "wisdom".
"The mouths of the righteous utter wisdom, and their tongues speak what is just."
To me, that sounds like a truism.. a platitude of little import. Being righteous is wise, those who are wise speak about righteousness. No, REALLY? Kindergarden level wisdom, if it's wisdom at all. You might as well say "Nice people are nice, and they say nice things."
Big deal.. this is "wisdom" for the kiddies.
Do you have an example of Biblical wisdom for perhaps the grown-ups?
Here is another example from the link you provided.. thought I'd check more than just one:
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Ok, I suppose it's true that fools despise knowledge. ( I might be one of those.. since I don't fear the lord at all ). Again, this is a definition at the level of very young children. Maybe that's the kind of people the Bible authors were writing for if this kind of things is seen as WISE....Must have been a surprise to those folks, right?
And of course, to say that the LORD is the beginning of all knowledge is nothing but hyperbole. It's a sales pitch... if you think that's WISDOM.. well.. I will leave you to it.
And now, I guess you can say that I despise the Bible's author's wisdom and the Bible's author's instruction, so, according to the Bible, I'm a fool. What bigoted wisdom ! And it's not the only place in the Bible that would call non-believers fools, you know.
Is that the kind of thing you call wisdom?
I don't.
I think being called a fool is AN INSULT.
I certainly hope that you aren't calling me a fool for not agreeing with you.
I wouldn't like that.
FOOLISH?mickiel wrote:
To say the bible does not contain wisdom is either foolish, or ignorance of the book.
One of the reasons why the bible has been a best selling book for over 400 years running , is its wisdom.
Well, I can surely read parts of the Bible any time that I want to, so I must be a fool. I fail to see how something like Psalm 37:30 could be considered "wisdom".
"The mouths of the righteous utter wisdom, and their tongues speak what is just."
To me, that sounds like a truism.. a platitude of little import. Being righteous is wise, those who are wise speak about righteousness. No, REALLY? Kindergarden level wisdom, if it's wisdom at all. You might as well say "Nice people are nice, and they say nice things."
Big deal.. this is "wisdom" for the kiddies.
Do you have an example of Biblical wisdom for perhaps the grown-ups?
Here is another example from the link you provided.. thought I'd check more than just one:
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Ok, I suppose it's true that fools despise knowledge. ( I might be one of those.. since I don't fear the lord at all ). Again, this is a definition at the level of very young children. Maybe that's the kind of people the Bible authors were writing for if this kind of things is seen as WISE....Must have been a surprise to those folks, right?
And of course, to say that the LORD is the beginning of all knowledge is nothing but hyperbole. It's a sales pitch... if you think that's WISDOM.. well.. I will leave you to it.
And now, I guess you can say that I despise the Bible's author's wisdom and the Bible's author's instruction, so, according to the Bible, I'm a fool. What bigoted wisdom ! And it's not the only place in the Bible that would call non-believers fools, you know.
Is that the kind of thing you call wisdom?
I don't.
I think being called a fool is AN INSULT.
I certainly hope that you aren't calling me a fool for not agreeing with you.
I wouldn't like that.
Post #90
Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 88 by mickiel]
FOOLISH?mickiel wrote:
To say the bible does not contain wisdom is either foolish, or ignorance of the book.
One of the reasons why the bible has been a best selling book for over 400 years running , is its wisdom.
Well, I can surely read parts of the Bible any time that I want to, so I must be a fool. I fail to see how something like Psalm 37:30 could be considered "wisdom".
"The mouths of the righteous utter wisdom, and their tongues speak what is just."
To me, that sounds like a truism.. a platitude of little import. Being righteous is wise, those who are wise speak about righteousness. No, REALLY? Kindergarden level wisdom, if it's wisdom at all. You might as well say "Nice people are nice, and they say nice things."
Big deal.. this is "wisdom" for the kiddies.
Do you have an example of Biblical wisdom for perhaps the grown-ups?
Here is another example from the link you provided.. thought I'd check more than just one:
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Ok, I suppose it's true that fools despise knowledge. ( I might be one of those.. since I don't fear the lord at all ). Again, this is a definition at the level of very young children. Maybe that's the kind of people the Bible authors were writing for if this kind of things is seen as WISE....Must have been a surprise to those folks, right?
And of course, to say that the LORD is the beginning of all knowledge is nothing but hyperbole. It's a sales pitch... if you think that's WISDOM.. well.. I will leave you to it.
And now, I guess you can say that I despise the Bible's author's wisdom and the Bible's author's instruction, so, according to the Bible, I'm a fool. What bigoted wisdom ! And it's not the only place in the Bible that would call non-believers fools, you know.
Is that the kind of thing you call wisdom?
I don't.
I think being called a fool is AN INSULT.
I certainly hope that you aren't calling me a fool for not agreeing with you.
I wouldn't like that.
Lets have your vote for the wisest books ;
http://www.deepspirits.com/life-changin ... wisdom.php
