Why is God Hidden?

[Bro Dave]

Let’s, just for the sake of this conversation, accept that God exists, and has “always” existed(although that word has no meaning outside of a time/space reference) Let us also consider that if God were to create a time/space universe for the purpose of creating beings with the potential of achieving a relative perfection, He would by necessity, need to remain hidden. This is because imperfect beings, scurrying around gaining experience, are doing so only because of some relative level of discomfort. If God were to be right there, provably present and directly contactable, the entire focus of survival would be for God to create a welfare state where they are taken care of with no effort on their part, and therefore, no chance of further growth. This would be entirely counter to His reason for their creation! However, God would have to be available in some way, to share in those experiences, and to guide his Kids. So, God, being spirit, gives his Kids that attribute as well, in the form of a soul. And so the partnership begins; God and humankind, experiencing this material realm. The human making judgment calls, and he/she and God experiencing the results. Good calls, make life a little easier. Bad calls, lead to more difficult, but even richer experiences, all of which eventuates in wisdom and therefore growth of the human soul.

Bro Dave

[QED]

Curious -- I think we are in pretty good agreement and without taking this too far off topic I hope you'll also agree that my analysis stands for a long way into the foreseeable future:

Now when I look around me and see life invariably followed by death, growth by decay and creation by destruction I (and the rest of science) can see one big system running down from a point of maximum order (Vast amounts of light gasses acting under gravity shortly after the Big Bang) through ever increasing levels of chaos

I sated this because it accurately describes the process of life and the way it borrows from chaos in order to create a little more order here and there. But the loan is always subject to an interest payment in terms of a net increase in disorder. So my point was that judging by the way that this particular universe operates we can clearly see that (if god created it) it is not one which could eventually attain perfection of the sort being proposed by the Urantians. This is ruled-out by the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

[Cathar1950]

QED and Curious,
What do you folks make of the new find about the universe accelerating?
Does that mean there is not enought matter(including dark matter) to slow the expansion of the universe? Before this discovery they thought that it was slowing down. I do think it is an interesting idea, provided there are multi-universes, that they might smash into each other.
I still see a difference between YHWH belief and the abstract sense of God.
Although the two might blend at times and have had an influence on each other as concepts. They often seems to get mixed up and confused in discussion.
But the Universe is the Universe with or with out God it is the same if we are going to belive anything the empirical presents. There seems to be some debate about the second law breaking down at the quantum level.
I just wanted to hear your take. I just find the universe fascinating.
Thanks.

[Curious]

Curious -- I think we are in pretty good agreement and without taking this too far off topic I hope you'll also agree that my analysis stands for a long way into the foreseeable future:

Of course, given the present data and tools available, your analysis is sound.

...So my point was that judging by the way that this particular universe operates we can clearly see that (if god created it) it is not one which could eventually attain perfection of the sort being proposed by the Urantians. This is ruled-out by the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

So long as the system is and remains closed. Not that I wish to support the Urantian claim, but their claim of future interjection from a god might imply that the system is not closed. Go figure!

[Curious]

QED and Curious,
What do you folks make of the new find about the universe accelerating?
Does that mean there is not enought matter(including dark matter) to slow the expansion of the universe? Before this discovery they thought that it was slowing down. I do think it is an interesting idea, provided there are multi-universes, that they might smash into each other.

If you refer to the apparent increased rate of regression of distant stars this could just as easily be accounted for by acceleration towards the universal gravitational centre. Objects closer to this centre would accelerate more quickly due to the increased force of gravity while appearing to show that the outer universe was accelerating outwards. Until we have considerably more data points (points where data is collected Not points that data is collected from) and greater cosmological accuracy, I will keep an open mind.

[Cathar1950]

Always keep an open mind.
More data, more data!
The Urantians seem interesting but it is to New Age for me.
I am always afraid they might make me wear a crystal or something.
I have this old book from 1910 second edition called the Rosicucian Cosmo-conception. It was outdated of course and an awful lot about the 5 races and Atlantean and Rmoahals. It is weird but it is interesting to look at the science they talk about and see how off they are. I wonder if they will look at us that way in a hundred years.
Well here's to entropy.

[Curious]

Always keep an open mind.
More data, more data!
The Urantians seem interesting but it is to New Age for me.
I am always afraid they might make me wear a crystal or something.
I have this old book from 1910 second edition called the Rosicucian Cosmo-conception. It was outdated of course and an awful lot about the 5 races and Atlantean and Rmoahals. It is weird but it is interesting to look at the science they talk about and see how off they are. I wonder if they will look at us that way in a hundred years.
Well here's to entropy.

I think you mean Rosicrucian, I have read this book. They are still going. Yet another variation of Christianity.

[Cathar1950]

Yes I left out an "r". It is Rosicrucian. Yes and they into Aryain at least at that time. It would be interesting to see the changes in the last 100 years, well 95 I guess. I remember seeing their adds as a kid in mag.s. I kew a couple. I lumped them with Masons along time ago, But I was young.

[Curious]

Yes I left out an "r". It is Rosicrucian.

It might have been thought of as pedantic that I corrected you but it was really only to help those who might want to do a search. Sorry if it seemed so.

[Cathar1950]

No problem spell checker dosn't always work for some words.
I don't want some one looking all over the place because i misspelled the word. Very Kind of you, thanks. I like looking at old books and see the changes with time in their ideas. I noticed in the book that who ever owned it Mrs. Nichall from Gaylord MI underlined weird words in passages that made no sense. I am sure she is long gone.

[CJK]

Why is God Hidden?

Perhaps because the particular God you speak of does not exist.