Are People Basically Good?

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:41 pm

This is suggested by Corvus' Good Deeds topic.

Do humans have a generally decent nature and are sometimes corrupted by circumstance? Or are we influenced by instincts of self-preservation and do good only because it benefits ourselves?

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:10 pm

Dilettante,
No you wouldn't instinctively know what a speed limit is assigned or acceptable, but a "basically" good person would know to watch and or ask. Basically good people would have manners and sense in such a case, because that person would have a concern for others.

How much should a basically good person pay in taxes? Nothing. Because there would be no need for a governance to maintain, because people would be basically good.

If we learn to behave towards other by being raised in society, then why do we not have a "mad max" type of society. I have been wronged by others growing up. Why should I not also behave that way too?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:53 pm

This reminds me of a story or something.
The Question is.
"Can human nature be changed" or "Can you change human nature".
Any way if you define human natures as the "ability to creatively respond"
Then the answer would be "only once? because after you changed them they couldn't respond creatively again and therefor there could not change. Is good a quality or an attribute?
"Basically" could be anything. Is he/she basically a homosexual? basically a Republican?
I think the human being is deeper then just "basically" and has more potently.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:18 pm

Cathar1950,
"Question is" could be anything. Matter of fact "question is" could be describing the color of a banana found in the Antarctic. Hey, who knows if we'll ever know since words are alway so ambiguous whenever they are used. Heck who knows if I am even typing the words I want to use to convey this message about motorcycles in Kuwait.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:58 pm

The Native Americans couldn't see the ships at sea because they had never experienced them. Who knows? You do make an interesting point
look how hard it is for us to communicate. We can hardly define a word that alone stay on track and mean it all the way thru an argument. I wonder if animals have fallacies? Maybe it should be are people basically a good thing.

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:23 am

Icarus wrote:

If we learn to behave towards other by being raised in society, then why do we not have a "mad max" type of society. I have been wronged by others growing up. Why should I not also behave that way too?

Probably because socialization involves learning to control certain impulses. This is never achieved perfectly or by everyone, unfortunately, but the goal of society tends to be cooperation, not "every man for himself". I'm not sure a "society" made up of humans with antisocial behaviors such as the ones in the Mad Max series should even be recognized as a society. Perhaps it wouldn't be a society at all. But that's a different discussion altogether.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:36 am

Dilettante,
Why only certain impulses?

Why does society have a goal of cooperation?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:30 pm

Ok , I was watching this thing on tv. It talked about us evolving and weeding out bullies. Because they didn't cooperate. People got together and killed bullies. I go to thinking doesn't that make groups of people just as dangerous and an individual? So do we make social bulling? It worked and we have civilization. But it has it's problems. It seems what we don't allow a person to do, we do as a group, allow the same thing.
Now thos seems to work for evil acts done socilaly but what about the individual?
there seems to be social evil which we are forced to accept, and rightly so sometimes ans personal evil which we try to stop, sometime socially.

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:27 pm

Icarus wrote:How much should a basically good person pay in taxes? Nothing. Because there would be no need for a governance to maintain, because people would be basically good.

If we learn to behave towards other by being raised in society, then why do we not have a "mad max" type of society. I have been wronged by others growing up. Why should I not also behave that way too?

This goes to the heart of the question in the thread. To put the state the opposite: Obviously, people do bad things. But do they do bad things because they are inherently inclined towards selfishness? Or do they do bad things because they are good people who have been "bent" toward the bad by circumstance?

If people are born innocent, they would have no knowledge of taxes or speed limits. So "good" in terms of these civic ideas depends on how these concepts were learned. It's a "good", for example, to speed to the hospital with an injured passenger. So the law does not define an ultimate, universal good.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:17 pm

ST88 wrote:

This goes to the heart of the question in the thread. To put the state the opposite: Obviously, people do bad things. But do they do bad things because they are inherently inclined towards selfishness? Or do they do bad things because they are good people who have been "bent" toward the bad by circumstance?

If people are born innocent, they would have no knowledge of taxes or speed limits. So "good" in terms of these civic ideas depends on how these concepts were learned. It's a "good", for example, to speed to the hospital with an injured passenger. So the law does not define an ultimate, universal good.

I think we are born with a lot of evolution and flexibility. It is needed for survival as well as selfishness. But no mater how selfish we are some one took care of us and nurtured us or we wouldn't be alive. Poor nurturing makes for poor(not economic) people.
I tend to think the good is something that makes sense, works or fits in.
evil being the opposite. Sometimes speeding is good.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:26 am

ST88,
I think we are inherently free. Our intellect being groomed through experience and choice. I think we are neither basically good or bad, we are (temporarily) removed from the guidepost in which we can judge our knowlege/choice of situations.

I think we tend toward selfishness because that guidepost is not there for us to see that life is not about our individual selves.