What did philosophy really do to Christianity?

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:58 pm

"One of the most influential professors in the shaping of contemporary theology was Peter Abelard, (1079-1142). He is partly responsible for giving us modern theology. His teachings set the table and prepared the menu for scholastic philosophers like Thomas Aquinas, ( 1225-1274). Even before this Christianity became steeped in the thoughts of Plato and Aristotle.

The shocking historical fact is that many of the Christian church fathers were pagan philosophers and orators prior to their conversions, and the Christian faith soon began to take on a philosophical bent." ( Frank Viola pg.202).

( Much of this thread will draw from Frank Violas " Pagan Christianity", Eusebius" The history of the church", Boggs " The Christian Saga" and Rowdon " Theological education in historical perspective.") And from my own views of course. And I will draw on a few websites and articles, which I will always list the references.

Viola states, on Pg.203, " Within a century and a half after Christianity and Philosophy first came into contact, the ideas and methods of Philosophy had flowed in such mass into Christianity, and filled so large a place in it, as to have made it no less a Philosophy than a religion." Which when I read, was absolutely stunning!

When Philosophy got into the Christian bloodstream, especially Pagan philosophy, the Christian Theological Education system has never recovered from it. The fusion of Pagan and Christian elements, became a " Theology unto itself"; ( The term " Theology" used to describe Pagan beliefs).

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:14 am

I have learned there's a whole lot of things and information that church people don't care about. A lot of history they ignore; its like there is a covering over their heads;

and I think that covering is biblical; meaning God is involved.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:03 pm

Changes in a church come from philosophy, then when philosophy takes root, it often becomes doctrine. And a church culture can pass its doctrines down throughout history, as they take a life of their own. But it gets absorbed into the bloodstream of a people, Jeremiah 2:13, 16:19.

So what did this do to Christianity? All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic; but all of Christianity takes it root from the Catholic church.

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-decepti ... _Mithraism

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:18 am

ttruscott wrote:
mickiel wrote: ...

what happened to Christianity when it mixed with Philosophy and influences like Paganism;

what did it historically do to Christianity; and why many Christians are either unaware of this history, or ignore it?

or fear it!
For one, it led to the big three denominations, Catholics and Calvinists and Arminians all basing their theologies on the blasphemy of the pagan Greek definition of omniscience

that HE knows everything that can be known from eternity past to eternity future by HIS nature which tells us HE knew those who would end in hell before HE created them but HE created them anyway, a blasphemy against HIS good name of love and to HIS holiness.

Church people ignore this or accept it and don't care about it and the 1% who understand, know the futility of convincing Cain of anything...

Peace, Ted

Well yeah I agree. That's why I'm against predestination. Also I don't think you are at the heart of the issue with predestination. The heart of the issue is that there is no love between man and God if we are forced to love God.

The problem with your theology is that it makes the cross unnecessary. According to you before creation we made our choice for or against God. Then we go through this pointless thing before we go to heaven or hell.

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:47 am

mickiel wrote: I have learned there's a whole lot of things and information that church people don't care about. A lot of history they ignore; its like there is a covering over their heads;

and I think that covering is biblical; meaning God is involved.

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Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:04 am

ttruscott wrote:
mickiel wrote: ...

what happened to Christianity when it mixed with Philosophy and influences like Paganism;

what did it historically do to Christianity; and why many Christians are either unaware of this history, or ignore it?

or fear it!
For one, it led to the big three denominations, Catholics and Calvinists and Arminians all basing their theologies on the blasphemy of the pagan Greek definition of omniscience

that HE knows everything that can be known from eternity past to eternity future by HIS nature which tells us HE knew those who would end in hell before HE created them but HE created them anyway, a blasphemy against HIS good name of love and to HIS holiness.

Church people ignore this or accept it and don't care about it and the 1% who understand, know the futility of convincing Cain of anything...

Peace, Ted

Catholicism is a denomination. Calvinism and Aminianism are theological orientations WITHIN other denominations such as Presbyterianism..(Calvinist). They are not "denominations" unto themselves.

It would be more accurate to state that the tree major denominations of Christianity are (to list them in chronological order):

1) Roman Catholocism
2) Eastern Orthodox
3) Protestanism, which has the most divisions within it.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:32 pm

In my view, God is involved in " The covering of human minds", or blanking them out from whole sections of things, understanding of things. In Romans 1:28 , certain believers did not like learning about God in certain ways, but kept to their own ways of learning, God then " Gave them over to a reprobate mind"; meaning he covered them with ignorance, or he let their own ways be their understanding.

I can give many many more scriptures to support this, if they are requested.

bluethread · Post by **bluethread** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:56 pm

mickiel wrote: What did philosophy really do to Christianity? Well one thing it did to it was make it, " Loose their first Love." They lost their priorities and their origins got confused; their original focus on certain things they were taught, got distorted by Philosophy.

In Rev. 2:4 Jesus is personally addressing the first stage of something he predicts will happen to HIS own church; " I have something against you, you have left your first love." Interesting here that Jesus is revealing something that he has AGAINST his own church. And his church certainly evolved into Christianity, no doubt about that. And philosophy had something to do with that incredible evolution.

First, I have a bit of a problem with the way you are framing things. Christianity is a philosophy. When you use the term philosophy, I presume you mean Greek or western philosophy. If I may back things up a little. It is my view that the Tanach presents a philosophy using the eastern philosophical framework. HaTorah uses the mythopoeic literary style to present the covenant in the style of the Hittite treaties. That is not to say that it is not historical, it is just presented in a different style from what we call history today.

Now, with that said, I do believe that Christian philosophy, primarily RCC and protestant forms, are a departure from that world view. There are many points of departure, but one in particular is the emphasis of authoritarianism over localism. If you can be more specific with regard to what you are primarily concerned about, I would be happy to continue in that vein.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:46 am

bluethread wrote:
mickiel wrote: What did philosophy really do to Christianity? Well one thing it did to it was make it, " Loose their first Love." They lost their priorities and their origins got confused; their original focus on certain things they were taught, got distorted by Philosophy.

In Rev. 2:4 Jesus is personally addressing the first stage of something he predicts will happen to HIS own church; " I have something against you, you have left your first love." Interesting here that Jesus is revealing something that he has AGAINST his own church. And his church certainly evolved into Christianity, no doubt about that. And philosophy had something to do with that incredible evolution.
First, I have a bit of a problem with the way you are framing things. Christianity is a philosophy. When you use the term philosophy, I presume you mean Greek or western philosophy. If I may back things up a little. It is my view that the Tanach presents a philosophy using the eastern philosophical framework. HaTorah uses the mythopoeic literary style to present the covenant in the style of the Hittite treaties. That is not to say that it is not historical, it is just presented in a different style from what we call history today.

Now, with that said, I do believe that Christian philosophy, primarily RCC and protestant forms, are a departure from that world view. There are many points of departure, but one in particular is the emphasis of authoritarianism over localism. If you can be more specific with regard to what you are primarily concerned about, I would be happy to continue in that vein.

Well I can continue in the vein in which I purposed the thread. What did Philosophy really do to the Christian church? Did it give its members a genuine connection with God, or did it give them the spiritual teasing of Philosophy? When the church married Philosophy it was a revolution; the beginning of a religious love affair. It was not a revolution of faith, but a revolution that has evolved into cyber churches, marketplace ministries, media churches and philosophical churches. Philosophy has baptized the Christian church with more changes than paganism has. But those two dynamics completely reshaped Christianity, in my view. Philosophy and Paganism. It just got placed in the church like a giant Trojan horse.

The term Christian was a Roman insult that got planted inside of the church, like a Trojan horse inside of their minds, they embraced the insult as their church identity. A whole way of life was renamed, redefined and shackled. Roman Philosophy would then be the first, in a long coming line of Philosophies, to infiltrate and become an internal part of this great remolded church.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:45 pm

In Genesis 2:8-9, God himself is planting trees that humanity can digest their fruit. One of the trees is a tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, also created for humanity to digest. Knowledge is to be consumed and digested; the mixture of good and evil knowledge, is confusion; a very real and established confusion, which began with the generations of Adam and Eve, and birthed all religions. All religions are thus a mixture of good and evil, having good and evil doctrines and people. This is one of the ways pagan philosophy was infused into religions

bluethread · Post by **bluethread** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:24 pm

mickiel wrote:
Well I can continue in the vein in which I purposed the thread. What did Philosophy really do to the Christian church? Did it give its members a genuine connection with God, or did it give them the spiritual teasing of Philosophy? When the church married Philosophy it was a revolution; the beginning of a religious love affair. It was not a revolution of faith, but a revolution that has evolved into cyber churches, marketplace ministries, media churches and philosophical churches. Philosophy has baptized the Christian church with more changes than paganism has. But those two dynamics completely reshaped Christianity, in my view. Philosophy and Paganism. It just got placed in the church like a giant Trojan horse.

The imagery of the Trojan horse is fitting, because over the last 2500 or so years, western philosophy has been adopted by people who claim to follow the Scriptures. As this Hellenization has proceeded through authoritarianism, feudalism, fascism, secular humanism and various forms of egalitarianism, Christianity, with it's universalist evangelicalism, has accommodated it all along the way. However, as I said before, referring to philosophy as if it was invented by the Greeks is to ignore the predominate thinking of the previous eras. I would say that it is more a matter of the Eastern Hebraic philosophy being influenced by Western Greek philosophy.

The term Christian was a Roman insult that got planted inside of the church, like a Trojan horse inside of their minds, they embraced the insult as their church identity. A whole way of life was renamed, redefined and shackled. Roman Philosophy would then be the first, in a long coming line of Philosophies, to infiltrate and become an internal part of this great remolded church.

The Romans may have devised the term Christian to identify the sect as messianic, but the ruling sects were happy to use it also, because it was a Greco-Roman term and not the Hebrew one.