Does atheism make an atheist become vehement?

harvey1 · Post by **harvey1** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:04 am

One of my experiences over the years of debating atheists as well as personal experiences in knowing people who became atheists is that they tend toward vehemence. Nowhere is this seen more clearly than Madayln Murray O'Hair. So, my question is, does atheism make an otherwise enjoyable person into a grouchy ole' vehement type? If so, then what accounts for this transition? That's not to say everyone is affected by such ideology; I'm speaking in more general terms. Please give your opinion.

harvey1 · Post by **harvey1** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:40 pm

QED wrote:I shouldn't go off topic here bit I simply can't resist. Harvey; PM me your email address and I'll send you a computer program that will reproduce our entire universe in every detail. It's a good bit less than 100 lines of code, possibly much less. Seriously.

Just post it. I'll read the code. But, I must say, you should be sending it to cosmologists because I'm sure they'll love to see how inflation and singularity prevention is solvable by such a short program. You will be world famous. Just remember me in all of your riches as your inspiration for writing this marvelous piece of code.

QED · Post by **QED** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:57 pm

OK Harvey, here's a link to a C source for a suitable program I found that someone else has already written (it's not as concise as the one I once wrote, but that one is languishing on a dusty Atari disk in the attic):

http://www.jimandkoka.com/jim/image/imagemaker.c

You'll see that the program gets it's almighty powers from the atheist anthropic principle. It will produce on your PC monitor an image of everything in the universe at every conceivable level of magnification. Everything that ever was or wasn't, everything that is yet to come or is not yet to come.

harvey1 · Post by **harvey1** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:05 pm

QED wrote:You'll see that the program gets it's almighty powers from the atheist anthropic principle. It will produce on your PC monitor an image of everything in the universe at every conceivable level of magnification. Everything that ever was or wasn't, everything that is yet to come or is not yet to come.

I sure hope you have better reasons for being an atheist than that... Please tell me that you do. Please...

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:02 pm

What are your arguments for atheism being obviously correct?

I mean to start a thread on strong atheism, any week now...

...and I can't imagine a...

You have flawed logic. Any argument that includes the text quoted above is just the Argument from Incredulity. Guaranteed error...

DanZ

QED · Post by **QED** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:55 pm

harvey1 wrote: I sure hope you have better reasons for being an atheist than that... Please tell me that you do. Please...

Gotcha

Actually, I'd be surprised if philosophical types couldn't make something out of the fact that every conceivable image can in principle be made manifest. If the combinatorial image is a metaphor for quantum superposition then it might account for apparently impossible (improbable) solutions to material problems (i.e. quasi-crystals). Anyway, if you feel like pursuing this we ought to start a new topic.

I'm not sure if there is anything more we can add to this topic however. A few theists might want to air a grievance or two and a few atheists might ask what the heck you're on about, but I don't think we're going to reveal anything earth-shattering about the mentality of those who can see that there is no more to God than there is to Santa.

harvey1 · Post by **harvey1** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:16 pm

QED wrote:but I don't think we're going to reveal anything earth-shattering about the mentality of those who can see that there is no more to God than there is to Santa.

But, look at the prejudice there. You by your own lights say you know nothing about the early universe, and here you are saying what cannot be the case. If the universe is run by material causation, then by your own inability to defend it, it seems as though you are appealing to some magical account. Don't you think you are in a bad situation to compare other solutions to the universe when you live in a house of cracked glass?

QED · Post by **QED** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:18 am

harvey1 wrote: But, look at the prejudice there. You by your own lights say you know nothing about the early universe, and here you are saying what cannot be the case. If the universe is run by material causation, then by your own inability to defend it, it seems as though you are appealing to some magical account. Don't you think you are in a bad situation to compare other solutions to the universe when you live in a house of cracked glass?

Nope. Be reasonable Harvey, ten pages in and not one person involved in that debate has even accepted your premises -- let alone your conclusion. I will wade back in with some more questions for you shortly.

harvey1 · Post by **harvey1** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:15 am

QED wrote:Nope. Be reasonable Harvey, ten pages in and not one person involved in that debate has even accepted your premises -- let alone your conclusion. I will wade back in with some more questions for you shortly.

Oh come now, QED. There has been no rational explanation as to why the premises are wrong. All I'm hearing are faith-based statements about how the premises must be wrong. I got tired of all the blind faith expressed in those statements which is why I thought the new thread on atheist faith needed to be addressed. If you base your thinking on other people's faith, then you might as well have been a follower of David Koresh.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:38 pm

harvey1 wrote:

I look at the natural world of wonder, and I can't imagine a programmer being able to create a program that self-replicates itself into what we see before us (even with an infinite number of iterations). Therefore, atheism seems obviously false.

Is that like saying God made man in God's image? If you can not imagine a programmer doing this how do you imagine a creator?
As far as farts(cantankerous old people) go they can be of any belief.
I was just reading this old book on religion that talked about atheist reasons. They were many and many kinds of Atheist as well as meanings. It is much like talking about Christians it is more like Christianities.
It is funny that some times Atheist make the same argument that some Christians do about some heritic beliefs. I will have to look up the passages. I have enoughreasons to not believe everything taught by my traditions both Judeaism and Christianity but not enough to commit to Atheisms. Yet I find many of their argument compelling. They fall short of my reach or needs. Yet I can complain from with-in. At least I know the story. Even Christians were accused of being Atheist for not worshiping the Emperor some thing I am sure none of us believe.