why does God create physically handicapped children?

[sin_is_fun]

Why does God create physically handicapped children?Why do they suffer from birth?why are other children created with Good health and born in Good families while the unlucky are born as destitutes,orphans and as physically handicapped children?

what is the religious explanation for this?

[otseng]

so why does he send one soul to a blind,handicapped poor families childs body and other soul to a rich,healthy childs body?

One is not necessarily better than the other. The blind poor child could end up dying a rich old man. The rich healthy child could end up as a drunk broke bum that dies from ebola. So, who knows which one is better than the other?

How does he decide?

I have no clue.

It is to be noted that sending a soul to an unbelieving family's childs body makes that child less probable to reach heaven.This is done by god at birth.

Not necessarily. And if this thread is any indication, it would actually appear to be the opposite.

looks like relativism.I thought believers dont accept relativism.

Some things are relative, some are absolute. It only depends on what one is talking about.

Anyway,physical handicaps are considered as suffering across most of cultures.Let us talk about only such cultures.

But, physical handicaps does not preclude them from having meaningful lives. For instance, one of the most prolific hymn writers, Fanny Crosby, was handicapped. Though she was blind, she wrote over 8500 songs, many of which are still sung in churches all over the world.

But God should be fair.He should not send one soul to good body and other soul to a handicapped body.

I do not read anywhere in the Bible that describes God as "fair". It seems like it is more of an attribute of what you deem God should be like rather than having any Biblical justification for it.

But what explains current suffering?Let us find some answers to it.

Again, the topic of suffering is a huge area. Perhaps another thread would be more appropriate.

[sin_is_fun]

One is not necessarily better than the other. The blind poor child could end up dying a rich old man. The rich healthy child could end up as a drunk broke bum that dies from ebola. So, who knows which one is better than the other?

The probablity of this happening is very low.Most children born in Europe and America live better off than children born in africa and slums of Asia.Blind poor children getting rich doesnt cure their blindness.Physical handicap remains forever.Probablity of such event happening is very low,hence it is unfair on part of God.

How does he decide?

I have no clue.

Whichever way he decides its unfair to the blind child.

It is to be noted that sending a soul to an unbelieving family's childs body makes that child less probable to reach heaven.This is done by god at birth.

Not necessarily. And if this thread is any indication, it would actually appear to be the opposite.

Thats not true.Generally most of the people. around 80 to 90% stick to the religions in which they are born.India remains hindu nation for thousnads of years,chinese remain buddhists for thousands of years,middle eastern people remain muslims.Very few,may be 10 to 20% at the maximum convert.

Further there is the problem of people who have not heard.If god had send a soul to America of 10th century AD ,that soul was doomed by birth.Why did God do so?

But, physical handicaps does not preclude them from having meaningful lives. For instance, one of the most prolific hymn writers, Fanny Crosby, was handicapped. Though she was blind, she wrote over 8500 songs, many of which are still sung in churches all over the world.

Had she been given a choice between eyesight and a billion dollars,she would have chosen her eyesight.Does 8500 poems come anywhere near eye sight?

why did God do this to her?What harm did that just born child do?

I do not read anywhere in the Bible that describes God as "fair". It seems like it is more of an attribute of what you deem God should be like rather than having any Biblical justification for it.

God is said to be justful God.If 'fair' is not an attribute of God,then how can god be justful?If a person isnt fair,then can he be called as justful?

Again, the topic of suffering is a huge area. Perhaps another thread would be more appropriate.

This thread is about physical handicaps by birth.So that portion of suffering is relevent here.

[justanotherperson]

To quote the famous C.S. Lewis

"The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modern man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defence for being the god who permits war, poverty and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that Man is on the Bench and God in the Dock."

from "God in the Dock"

[Bro Dave]

To quote the famous C.S. Lewis

"The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modern man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defence for being the god who permits war, poverty and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that Man is on the Bench and God in the Dock."

from "God in the Dock"

The "God" you describe is the staw man version created by us! We need to investigate the "how and why" of this cycle of diety creation dissatisfaction and distruction takes place. Man sees God in his own image, and creates embarassingly imperfect diety symbols. As we grow the faults of these symbols become apparent and the "gods" are continually "killed-off", to upgraded to the current highest understanding. And while this is neither a flattering nor an accruate picture of The First Source and Center who is First Cause, it is necessary. We are like virus' on a spect of space dust. Our collective intellect, is pretty pitiful. Yet, we are the creation of Perfection, and retain that potential. We are the children of The Master Artist, who with "finger paints", attempt to render His portrait... but its a start.

Bro Dave

[justanotherperson]

As we grow the faults of these symbols become apparent and the "gods" are continually "killed-off", to upgraded to the current highest understanding. And while this is neither a flattering nor an accruate picture of The First Source and Center who is First Cause, it is necessary.

Are you speaking of "killing-off" attributes of a god, or actually, in our minds collectively, "killing-off" the god himself? These are two very different things and I would venture to say that people often come up with and later dismiss different attributes of god but say killing of the Judeo-Christian God or Allah hasn't been done nor will be done in the future.

What I was saying earlier with a quote from C.S. Lewis is that, in ancient times, man was on trail and God was the judge for man's deeds. Now it seems like there is a role reversal: Man is the Judge and we are putting God on trial for his deeds, thinking that we know more than God and that He should follow our plan.

Read Job, and this is examined nicely, Job is the best of the best on earth in terms of obedience to God. God lets Satan hurt him badly to test the Faith of Job and even the free will that God has given men (when it looks that God has turned His back on you, even seemingly against you, will you still put your faith in him, as opposed to living rightly and being blessed for it (making your decision to believe in God almost seem compulsive)).

Now Job's friends put God on trial in some of there statements, saying God wouldn't do this or would do that. But in the End, God shows that he is still judge, creator and ruler of the earth and that no one can comprehend his actions (Job 38-the end).

I think for the Judeo-Christian God, this is a good example of suffering and a test of faith and even God's response to it.

[otseng]

The probablity of this happening is very low.Most children born in Europe and America live better off than children born in africa and slums of Asia.Blind poor children getting rich doesnt cure their blindness.Physical handicap remains forever.Probablity of such event happening is very low,hence it is unfair on part of God.

Being born poor or blind would not be the most enviable position to be in. But again, you seem to discount the fact that they could live meaningful lives even while suffering.

Had she been given a choice between eyesight and a billion dollars,she would have chosen her eyesight.

I have never heard any account of her saying this. What I have heard her to have said is this:

Fanny never became bitter about her blindness. One time a preacher sympathetically remarked, "I think it is a great pity that the Master did not give you sight when He showered so many other gifts upon you." She replied quickly, "Do you know that if at birth I had been able to make one petition, it would have been that I should be born blind?" "Why?" asked the surprised clergyman.

"Because when I get to heaven, the first face that shall ever gladden my sight will be that of my Saviour!"

http://www.nyise.org/fanny/fcrosby.htm

God is said to be justful God.If 'fair' is not an attribute of God,then how can god be justful?If a person isnt fair,then can he be called as justful?

Being just and being fair are separate issues. Yes, the Bible describes God as "just".

Deu 32:4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me.

Act 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

"Just" in these cases means "lawful, righteous, observing divine laws".

But, nowhere does it describe God as "fair". Especially if one means "fair" as everyone getting the exact same thing.

[Bro Dave]

As we grow the faults of these symbols become apparent and the "gods" are continually "killed-off", to upgraded to the current highest understanding. And while this is neither a flattering nor an accruate picture of The First Source and Center who is First Cause, it is necessary.

Are you speaking of "killing-off" attributes of a god, or actually, in our minds collectively, "killing-off" the god himself?

No religion can claim or describe God and His absolute nature. Hence the necessity to "kill-off" our understated misconceived models. And, yes, I was of course including the Christian model as well. This highly inconsistant misrepresentation, is more human than devine. God, as best as we can understand Him, is the source of all Love. He most closely would be represented as a loving Father. But the limitation is ours, not His. We will continue to grow, and as we grow so will God seem to increase in stature. Giving God human foibles is no longer acceptable; He deserves better!


Bro Dave

[sin_is_fun]

Being born poor or blind would not be the most enviable position to be in. But again, you seem to discount the fact that they could live meaningful lives even while suffering.

You can live a meaningful life without suffering too.The point here is blind people suffer.They still live a meaningful life but that doesnt negate the fact that god makes them suffer unfairly.

Had she been given a choice between eyesight and a billion dollars,she would have chosen her eyesight.

I have never heard any account of her saying this. What I have heard her to have said is this:

Fanny never became bitter about her blindness. One time a preacher sympathetically remarked, "I think it is a great pity that the Master did not give you sight when He showered so many other gifts upon you." She replied quickly, "Do you know that if at birth I had been able to make one petition, it would have been that I should be born blind?" "Why?" asked the surprised clergyman.

"Because when I get to heaven, the first face that shall ever gladden my sight will be that of my Saviour!"

http://www.nyise.org/fanny/fcrosby.htm

That shows her faith.People sacrifice everything for faith.Peter and paul died painfully for their faith.They were happy that they died in that way.Does it mean that we approve that act?

This great woman has learnt make her life meaningful inspite of her blindness.That doesnt justify god creating her blind.Further not all physically challenged feel in the same way.They wont petition God to create them with disabilities.Given a chance they would want their physical disabilities to go away.

Being just and being fair are separate issues. Yes, the Bible describes God as "just".

"Just" in these cases means "lawful, righteous, observing divine laws".

But, nowhere does it describe God as "fair". Especially if one means "fair" as everyone getting the exact same thing.

This definition of just and fair isnt correct.

www.dictionary.com defines just as follows

1.Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions: a just ruler

In latin 'Just' means 'fair.'

1 a : the quality of being just, impartial, or fair

From the same website the latin etymyology for just is given as "b : conforming with what is deemed fair or good "

'fairness' is defined as follows in the same website

Having or exhibiting a disposition that is free of favoritism or bias; impartial: a fair mediator.
Just to all parties; equitable: a compromise that is fair to both factions.

Synonyms: fair, 1just, 1equitable, impartial, unprejudiced, unbiased, objective, dispassionate
Equitable implies justice dictated by reason, conscience, and a natural sense of what is fair: an equitable distribution of gifts among the children. Impartial emphasizes lack of favoritism:

(All quotes from www.dictionary.com)

---------------

If god is to be called as justful his justice system has to be fair .If it is devoid of this,it isnt just.

[otseng]

The point here is blind people suffer.

Who does not suffer to some degree? Sure, blind people suffer, but so do many people that are not blind. If God were to totally prevent suffering on earth, I'd dare say that none of us would be here.

They still live a meaningful life but that doesnt negate the fact that god makes them suffer unfairly.

Simply because God assigns a soul in them? What would be the alternative, for God to decide not to assign a soul to a body simply because a person is blind?

That shows her faith.People sacrifice everything for faith.Peter and paul died painfully for their faith.They were happy that they died in that way.Does it mean that we approve that act?

I think what it does show is the power of faith. Faith gives people the ability to transcend suffering and to find hope and meaning in suffering. God never promises a life on earth without suffering. Even Jesus suffered while on earth.

Hbr 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

But, what God does promise is hope in the midst of suffering.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

And suffering leads us to long for the eternal rather than the temporal.

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

That doesnt justify god creating her blind.

As I've argued earlier, God didn't "create" anyone blind.

Further not all physically challenged feel in the same way.They wont petition God to create them with disabilities.Given a chance they would want their physical disabilities to go away.

Of course most people would not want to have physical disabilities. But what would be the acceptable limit for a physical disability? Should a person with Down's syndrome be denied life? Or a person with cleft palate? Even if it could be decided for someone not to live, the line for the cutoff would be arbitrary.

This definition of just and fair isnt correct.

What I refer to are the Biblical definitions of just.

tsaddiyq:
1) just, lawful, righteous
a) just, righteous (in government)
b) just, right (in one's cause)
c) just, righteous (in conduct and character)
d) righteous (as justified and vindicated by God)
e) right, correct, lawful

dikaios:
1) righteous, observing divine laws
a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God
1) of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined
2) innocent, faultless, guiltless
3) used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life
a) only Christ truly
4) approved of or acceptable of God
b) in a narrower sense, rendering to each his due and that in a judicial sense, passing just judgment on others, whether expressed in words or shown by the manner of dealing with them

Neither the Hebrew nor Greek definitions of "just" are synonymous with "fair".

[sin_is_fun]

Who does not suffer to some degree? Sure, blind people suffer, but so do many people that are not blind. If God were to totally prevent suffering on earth, I'd dare say that none of us would be here.

Everybody suffers.But that doesnt justify creating blind children and imbeciles.Even though we all know that suffering will not end totally we still try to reduce it as far as possible."Suffering will never end" is not an excuse for creating sufferings by birth.

Simply because God assigns a soul in them? What would be the alternative, for God to decide not to assign a soul to a body simply because a person is blind?

Yes,its God who assigns a soul to a body and thus its god who creates imbeciles and blind people.Almighty God will defenitely have various alternatives to stop this.

I think what it does show is the power of faith. Faith gives people the ability to transcend suffering and to find hope and meaning in suffering. God never promises a life on earth without suffering. Even Jesus suffered while on earth.

Not all physically challenged have faith.Many physically handicapped are atheists and belong to other religions.God by giving freewill makes us suffer the consequences.But what did the child do do deserve such a cruel punishment?It did nothing.So why should God make it suffer by birth?

And suffering leads us to long for the eternal rather than the temporal.

Not to all.Some physically handicapped suffer and still remain atheists.

As I've argued earlier, God didn't "create" anyone blind.

But its he who assigns souls to bodies.So he does have a say in deciding whether a child is blind or healthy.

Of course most people would not want to have physical disabilities. But what would be the acceptable limit for a physical disability? Should a person with Down's syndrome be denied life? Or a person with cleft palate? Even if it could be decided for someone not to live, the line for the cutoff would be arbitrary.

The omnipotent God surely must have a fair way of determining what is the cut off limit for physical disability.

This definition of just and fair isnt correct.

What I refer to are the Biblical definitions of just.

tsaddiyq:
1) just, lawful, righteous
a) just, righteous (in government)
b) just, right (in one's cause)
c) just, righteous (in conduct and character)
d) righteous (as justified and vindicated by God)
e) right, correct, lawful

Neither the Hebrew nor Greek definitions of "just" are synonymous with "fair".[/quote]

If 'just' means simply implementing the law then every dictator who writes his own constitution is a justful ruler. To be called as justful ruler the process of law making should be fair.If the law itself is unfair,then upholding of the law means nothing.

Psalms 98:9 Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

equity in hebrew means 1) evenness, uprightness, straightness, equity

'equal '

from http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible ... stnm=04339

Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.