Forgiveness

[Furrowed Brow]

• Scenario: x murders y’s daughter. x is eventually caught and put on trial. Y gives evidence. During the cross examination y admits that they no longer feel anger or resentment towards x; they have forgiven x. When y says this they are being sincere, they no longer feel anger. The outcome is that the jury find x guilty and the judge sentences him to death. This is also a court where the opinion of y is taken into consideration. If y had agreed clemency the sentence would have become a life sentence. But Y asks for the death sentence. So x is executed.

Did y really forgive x?

Does forgiveness mean:

• 1/ feeling no anger etc. AND showing this as a behaviour and choices made i.e. clemency
  2/ feeling no anger, resentment etc and has nothing to do with behaviour and choices.

[onefaith]

Forgiveness is letting go of your anger and showing that by the person's actions. If x murdered y's daughter, and y said they have forgiven them but still gave them a death sentence, that wouldn't be forgiveness. To me it sounds more like y didn't really love their daughter all that much.
If y forgave x and did what they could to make sure they DIDN'T get the death sentence, they would be showing forgiveness.

[Furrowed Brow]

Forgiveness is letting go of your anger and showing that by the person's actions. If x murdered y's daughter, and y said they have forgiven them but still gave them a death sentence, that wouldn't be forgiveness. To me it sounds more like y didn't really love their daughter all that much.
If y forgave x and did what they could to make sure they DIDN'T get the death sentence, they would be showing forgiveness.

Maybe y has always subscribed to the death penalty for murder and thus is just being consistent, or perhaps he knows his daughter would never have forgiven x, and thus he reasons it is not for him to seek a lesser sentence, it would have been what his daughter would have wanted. But we are working on the presumption that y no longer feels angry. The question seeks to find if there is a disconnect between feelings, thinking, and actions.

[JoeyKnothead]

Forgiveness is letting go of your anger and showing that by the person's actions. If x murdered y's daughter, and y said they have forgiven them but still gave them a death sentence, that wouldn't be forgiveness. To me it sounds more like y didn't really love their daughter all that much.
If y forgave x and did what they could to make sure they DIDN'T get the death sentence, they would be showing forgiveness.

I respect how onefaith has come to this position, and I can accept it to a point. I don't accept this person didn't love their own daughter, though I see why Christianity does see it that way.

Forgiveness as a 'philosophy' was developed to help keep folks from seeking revenge, as well as the comfort it can provide in trying circumstances. There is nothing inherently wrong psychologically with someone wanting revenge (death penalty here). Only when the revenge starts to 'eat away' at the person does it prevent problems.

So, I would never forgive the murderer, and I would seek the death penalty. To me there is no better way for society to demonstrate the sanctity of life than to take away the life of a murderer. Sure, the victim can't come back, but by golly neither can the culprit.

[onefaith]

Forgiveness is letting go of your anger and showing that by the person's actions. If x murdered y's daughter, and y said they have forgiven them but still gave them a death sentence, that wouldn't be forgiveness. To me it sounds more like y didn't really love their daughter all that much.
If y forgave x and did what they could to make sure they DIDN'T get the death sentence, they would be showing forgiveness.

I respect how onefaith has come to this position, and I can accept it to a point. I don't accept this person didn't love their own daughter, though I see why Christianity does see it that way.

Forgiveness as a 'philosophy' was developed to help keep folks from seeking revenge, as well as the comfort it can provide in trying circumstances. There is nothing inherently wrong psychologically with someone wanting revenge (death penalty here). Only when the revenge starts to 'eat away' at the person does it prevent problems.

So, I would never forgive the murderer, and I would seek the death penalty. To me there is no better way for society to demonstrate the sanctity of life than to take away the life of a murderer. Sure, the victim can't come back, but by golly neither can the culprit.

If this happened in real life, it would take a whole lot more for me to think that this person didn't love their daughter. That's just what came to my head when I was reading the scenario. It doesn't have anything to do with my beliefs as a Christian.
If y was just wanting to do what his daughter would have done (death penalty), that would show love for his daughter. If y had always been pro death penalty, I wouldn't say he didn't love his daughter, but it seems contradictory to forgiveness. I believe that if someone forgives someone they wouldn't have them die. (I don't mean to preach, but Jesus forgave us so we wouldn't have to die)

Does forgiveness mean:

1/ feeling no anger etc. AND showing this as a behaviour and choices made i.e. clemency
2/ feeling no anger, resentment etc and has nothing to do with behaviour and choices.

I just typed up this big thing and it got deleted

[JoeyKnothead]

I believe that if someone forgives someone they wouldn't have them die. (I don't mean to preach, but Jesus forgave us so we wouldn't have to die)

You know, rethinking that I'm with ya. Be kinda hard to forgive someone while pulling the switch. I still hold my position on the death penalty as a just punishment. (Preach if it pertains to the topic, but make sure you clarify it as such)

[Herd_ya]

It was stated that upon saying they no longer felt anger or resentment towards x, and they said this with sincerity. Then does that not say in its own words forgiveness? Just because the act of the death sentence was carried out, does that mean that forgiveness was never there?

I believe forgiveness to be releasing the angry thoughts, the thoughts of bitterness and of resentment, and also to not need revenge.
Their say on the case of the death sentence, does that count as revenge?

Personally i don't believe that it does, therefore i can believe that forgiveness was there, my views on the death sentence are not that i am for it, 'Eye for an eye' if that were the case, the whole world would be blind, but that is not the topic of conversation. Upon looking at it, i can see forgiveness in the fact that it was said with sincerity, justice may come into play tho on case tho?

[bernee51]

• Scenario: x murders y’s daughter. x is eventually caught and put on trial. Y gives evidence. During the cross examination y admits that they no longer feel anger or resentment towards x; they have forgiven x. When y says this they are being sincere, they no longer feel anger. The outcome is that the jury find x guilty and the judge sentences him to death. This is also a court where the opinion of y is taken into consideration. If y had agreed clemency the sentence would have become a life sentence. But Y asks for the death sentence. So x is executed.

Did y really forgive x?

Does forgiveness mean:

• 1/ feeling no anger etc. AND showing this as a behaviour and choices made i.e. clemency
  2/ feeling no anger, resentment etc and has nothing to do with behaviour and choices.

Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.

[justifyothers]

• Scenario: x murders y’s daughter. x is eventually caught and put on trial. Y gives evidence. During the cross examination y admits that they no longer feel anger or resentment towards x; they have forgiven x. When y says this they are being sincere, they no longer feel anger. The outcome is that the jury find x guilty and the judge sentences him to death. This is also a court where the opinion of y is taken into consideration. If y had agreed clemency the sentence would have become a life sentence. But Y asks for the death sentence. So x is executed.

Did y really forgive x?

Does forgiveness mean:

• 1/ feeling no anger etc. AND showing this as a behaviour and choices made i.e. clemency
  2/ feeling no anger, resentment etc and has nothing to do with behaviour and choices.

I have tossed this around, and I cannot see that Y truly forgave X, if he still asked for the death penalty.
I think part of forgiveness is the release of the need for vengeance. As long as we still desire to cause harm back, we have not forgiven. (IMO) We haven't really 'let go'.

[duganism]

tear dropping ourselves into a situation is the easy aspect.what is readily availible to those concerned is the concept. To understand that has the markings of wisdom a lasting of those witch were speaking of as regret. Fault or not is semantics Truley . because one discerning fact reamains the many never have spoken ........ and they were singin' bye bye miss human pie! is this the day an idea doesn't survive!