Without God Life Has No Purpose

[man]

I Googled that phrase and came up with this.

https://www.google.com/#q=without+god+l ... no+purpose

This is what religious people are being taught by their leaders. So we have all these people walking around thinking that there is an empty hole inside them that can only be filled by god and without god there lives have no purpose or meaning.

The thing that strikes me as being strange is I have always regarded all religions as myth and I am not a believer of any of them, but at the same time I don't have this empty hole inside me they talk about. I have never felt that my life has no purpose or meaning and in fact all of the things that these religious people say I need don't ever even cross my mind.

There is so much interesting REAL stuff to learn that I am so busy reading, working or doing whatever I happen to be interested in at the moment to have time to even think about this hole I am supposed to have inside me that I can't find. If anything I need a bigger hole to fit all of the things that I occupy myself with, my hole runneth over!

Anyway, I started thinking about teaching people that nonsense and it struck me as being a cruel thing to do. It's tantamount to saying, hey there is something wrong with you (when there isn't) and then telling them that you have the cure.

The phrase snake oil salesman comes to mind.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

It is not part of God's plan for people to go to hell. He hates the idea of people going to hell.

So are you trying to tell us that when God created Hell that he did not intend to burn the majority of his creations in it? Humans included? That he was completely oblivious to the purpose of the place he was creating?

And yet here we are talking about purpose.

Simply being a "good and loving person" doesn't get you into heaven. Accepting Jesus as our saviour does.

Yes and we can be the worst person in the world. Just as long as we believe in Jesus and pander to his ego. Sin doesn't matter. Just as long as we accept Jesus and agree to worship him for all eternity.

And why should we go to heaven if we reject Him?

Why should we go to Hell for rejecting him?

The thing people need to understand is that God isn't nice.

That is quite obvious when we read the bible. However it's usually the theists who claim him to be nice.

God is love.

So theists like to claim. However the bible AND REALITY shows us otherwise.

And He loves us so much that He gave us free will. To me that's better than nice.

I would prefer to have him violate my freewill and make me a robot rather than risk being BBQd for all eternity by him. In fact I would invite God to take over my free will to avoid that place.

Wouldn't you rather have your freewill violated than suffer for all eternity?

I don't consider it at all loving to give me with freewill and then have the horrific threat of eternal damnation if I chose to use it in the wrong way. Give me freewill violation any day.

[Replying to Talishi]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Are ypu saying that God has written our lives in a screenplay?

Isn't that really what divine purpose is? Following God's will to the letter?

[jarrlous]

[Replying to Talishi]

First of all Paul is quoting from Exodus 9:16. Second; I don't see how that verse cofirms your claim. Please explain.

I've found plenty of scriptures that reveal that God has given us free will. Here is just some of them;

Deuteronomy 30:19-20, Revelation 3:20, Proverbs 16:9, John 7:17, Joshua 24:15, 1 Corinthians 10:13, John 1:12-13, Genesis 2:16-17, James 1:13-16, Galatians 5:16-17, 2 Timothy 2:36, Romans 10:9-10, Mark 8:34, John 3:16, Genesis 4:6-7, 2 Corinthians 9:7.

[Bust Nak]

The point that Christians or theists make is that in the atheist point of view our existence is an accident therefore our existence has no purpose.

Not much of a point after you have granted that "anyone can create their own purpose in life without God."

And why should we go to heaven if we reject Him?

Because it is God's plan for every one to go to heaven, as he hates the idea of people going to hell.

[jarrlous]

The point that Christians or theists make is that in the atheist point of view our existence is an accident

I am yet to come across an atheist that believes we are here as an accident. I certainly don't believe that. I believe we are an inevitable outcome of millions of years of evolution.

There's plenty of scientist that would say life is an accident. Some may not want to use the word 'accident' because it may seem degrading to the human race. They might use the words chance, random, coincidennce, fluke, unexpected - oh wait, those words mean the same thing.

And this 'life is inevitable' thing is just a theory and not all atheist scientist agree with it. But lets say its true, is what caused the universe to begin an accident or was that inevitable as well?

I looked up what was opposite to accident and found these words; design, decision, intention, calculation and plan - only an intelligent mind can do these things.

So either the universe was created by a creator or it was an accident - those are the only two options.

[KenRU]

The point that Christians or theists make is that in the atheist point of view our existence is an accident

I am yet to come across an atheist that believes we are here as an accident. I certainly don't believe that. I believe we are an inevitable outcome of millions of years of evolution.

There's plenty of scientist that would say life is an accident. Some may not want to use the word 'accident' because it may seem degrading to the human race. They might use the words chance, random, coincidennce, fluke, unexpected - oh wait, those words mean the same thing.

Why is this a concern? The answer is quite simple. Ego.

Whether a theist or an atheist can't comprehend the fact that they are not the center of the universe is irrelevant.

I have no issue accepting that life arose by chance. I also have no issue admitting that I don't really know the answer one way or the other. In fact, I am quite proud to admit that I don't let my bias or ego get in the way of my learning about something (or at least I try my best).

And this 'life is inevitable' thing is just a theory and not all atheist scientist agree with it. But lets say its true, is what caused the universe to begin an accident or was that inevitable as well?

Why is god being uncaused no concern for you, but uncaused life (or the inevitability of live) a concern?

So either the universe was created by a creator or it was an accident - those are the only two options.

I have no trouble accepting the accident answer.

In my opinion, it makes much more sense then the capricious, homophobic and genocidal god portrayed in most holy books.

-all the best

[Wissing]

[Replying to post 1 by man]

I am so busy reading, working or doing whatever I happen to be interested in at the moment to have time to even think about this hole I am supposed to have inside me that I can't find.

Have you ever tried putting all those things down and just existing?

Me, I tend to distract myself from the void I feel sometimes. There's a nagging loneliness, somewhere inside, but I've found that if I stay busy I can ignore it. I must admit, even as one who believes in a knowable God, I am not okay. So, when I get a weekend with nothing to do, and I find myself having to put everything down, I tend to immediately find more things to fill my time. It's really not a good thing to do because it causes stress. But I do it, because that void is painful, and it's very difficult to acknowledge. However, I do think it's good to acknowledge the unrest that comes with silence. Without acknowledging the fact that we long for something more, all we do is self-justify. We build our own little fantasy worlds, convincing ourselves (and others, for our own sake) that things are all fine, and everybody's okay, even when they're not.

There is injustice in the world. There is unrest. Peace is nowhere to be found. There are too many people crying "everything's fine". They are not being true even to themselves.

From Jeremiah 6:

Therefore I am full of the wrath of the Lord;
I am weary of holding it in.
“Pour it out upon the children in the street,
and upon the gatherings of young men, also;
both husband and wife shall be taken,
the elderly and the very aged.
Their houses shall be turned over to others,
their fields and wives together,
for I will stretch out my hand
against the inhabitants of the land,�
declares the Lord.
“For from the least to the greatest of them,
everyone is greedy for unjust gain;
and from prophet to priest,
everyone deals falsely.
They have healed the wound of my people lightly,
saying, ‘Peace, peace,’
when there is no peace.

If we could only admit the devastating effects of our apathy towards poverty, our addictions to entertainment, our selfishness, and our deceitfulness in the workplace to win money by finding loopholes rather than making a difference. If we could only stop making excuses for our own mistakes (the economy is to blame, the authorities are to blame, my parents are to blame...) If we could only admit our uncompassionate and self-serving nature. Then these things could be overcome. But we cannot admit them, even to ourselves, because we are scared to death that "if anyone really knew what was going through my head, I'd be damned".

We don't have to be afraid, we don't have to justify ourselves, we don't have to pick apart everybody's arguments into a thousand pieces and respond line-by-line ad infinitum. All who find themselves doing those things cannot say with a straight face that they have peace. If you believe in (trust, follow, be loyal to) Jesus, you believe that God is perfectly just, (even when he destroys entire civilizations) but that he is more than just: he is gracious. As he forgave Israel repeatedly, as he forgave the people of Nineveh (the book of Jonah) for turning back to him, as he forgave tax collectors and thieves, he will forgive others as well. There is great freedom in admitting we're lost.

[jarrlous]

The point that Christians or theists make is that in the atheist point of view our existence is an accident therefore our existence has no purpose.

Not much of a point after you have granted that "anyone can create their own purpose in life without God."

Theres no contradiction there. If I was an atheist I would acknowledge that the existence of humanity has no purpose just as many have. But that does not mean I could not create my own purpose.

[Bust Nak]

Theres no contradiction there. If I was an atheist I would acknowledge that the existence of humanity has no purpose just as many have. But that does not mean I could not create my own purpose.

Right, so what exactly is the problem? I, as an atheist acknowledge that the existence of humanity has no purpose other than the one I've created for my own.

[Neatras]

If you believe in (trust, follow, be loyal to) Jesus, you believe that God is perfectly just, (even when he destroys entire civilizations) but that he is more than just: he is gracious.

I will first have to be convinced to accept the above, because at this moment I do not respect any opinion that treats genocidal beings as "just." I can do my part to help others without resorting to brutal tactics.

This isn't just something to sweep under the rug after I've begun to believe in a deity. This must be resolved before I entertain the notion that any deities that exist are actually good.

[Wissing]

[Replying to post 19 by Neatras]

Don't sweep it under the rug. If all the violence in the world happened for no purpose, that would be the tragedy. If God is good, then his wrath happens for a good purpose. The death and injustice around us is not meaningless. It's not all for nothing. There is a greater good.

The wages of sin is death. We will die whether or not it happens at the hand of God. He knows what he's doing, and he will only tolerate injustice for so long. When everyone is corrupt, God destroys them [1]. Saul even tried to spare women and children in 1 Samuel 15, and he was wrong for it [2]. God wanted total war. God knows that everyone in a society is collectively responsible for what that society does. Jesus himself is wrathful (Revelation). These things should not be hidden, or downplayed, or said lightly. This is how serious our sins are. We think they're not serious, only because we do not understand the remote consequences of them.

The real surprise, though, is that God so often withholds his wrath, as in the story of Jonah, and in his allowance of Israel to return from exile, and in Jesus, and countless other times. This demonstrates that he does have a reason for what he does. He does so for the greater good. Yes, I said the greater good. Why is God allowed to let the end justify the means? Because he is omniscient, and omnipotent, and he knows what he's doing. He alone is entitled to that maxim.

If, without God, we could build a world without violence, we would have done so by now. But even atheist, humanist nations (like 1917 Russia), in attempting to do so, have ended up killing many more in the process. We just can't do it without God. It may be hard to swallow, but we need Jesus... in all his wrath, and in all his mercy, he is good. He has a plan, he knows what he's doing.




[1] Genesis 6:11-13 (AMP) The [population of the] earth was corrupt [absolutely depraved—spiritually and morally putrid] in God’s sight, and the land was filled with violence [desecration, infringement, outrage, assault, and lust for power]. 12 God looked on the earth and saw how debased and degenerate it was, for all humanity had corrupted their way on the earth and lost their true direction. 13 God said to Noah, “I intend to make an end of all that lives, for through men the land is filled with violence; and behold, I am about to destroy them together with the land.

[2] 1 Samuel 15:18-19 (AMP)
18 and the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, ‘Go, totally destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are eliminated.’ 19 Why did you not obey the voice of the Lord