If god doesn't follow his own rules, why should we?

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

*Let's assume the Christian god is real*

This is mostly about the Old Testament where many rules (the 10 Commandments for instance) are listed. If god so rarely follows his own rules and often switches character traits, why should we follow anything he says? Wouldn't his lack of consistency make him rather pathetic as a supreme leader?

Also, why should we follow something even if we find it immoral? Why is harming other humans in the name of god justified? Or, why is god allowed to get away with killing, harming, or ignoring us, yet whenever something good happens, he gets all the credit?

[Fracture]

I think it depends on how we view ourselves.

If we see ourselves as gods children, ignorant to the world around us, then we should follow gods instructions as we would expect our children to follow our instructions.

If however we see ourselves as adults of sound minds and good intentions, then we should take the morals we are sure of and judge god on that bases. If gods actions reflect the morals we are certain of then we might be able to learn from god. If gods actions reflect a lack of the morals we are certain of then we should be very skeptical of the morals god preaches, especially the ones that we don't understand.

I hope that came off as even handed. I didn't mean to depict either side in a bad light.

[jerryxplu]

[Replying to post 1 by Princess Luna On The Moon]

People follow God not out of love but fear. Fear of what happens after they die. So it is not a matter of wanting to follow God for sake of goodness but rather avoid punishment such as hell. Of course then there is the all so wonderful idea of heaven as reward. So even if it doesn't make sense we have people following different religions for that purpose. Avoiding possible punishment and seeking possible rewards.

This of course kind of fall back on pascals wager where the idea is that it is better to believe and being wrong where you don't lose anything rather than not believe and you are wrong and be in hell.

Of course this idea is flawed since if you believe you are wrong you do lose a lot such as time spent in church for example. And religion does greatly influence your actions. Many people have problem with many issues not because of their personal value but their religious values.

[OnceConvinced]

Christians will say that when God does things it's ok. That he is better able to determine say when it's ok to kill people when we as humans are not. Supposedly when he does things like wipe out thousands and thousands of people, it's not actually genocide when he does it, it's just justice. When he does it it's somehow different to if we humans did it. He can be jealous, wrathful, proud, self-seeking, deceptive, etc etc and it's ok for him but not for us.

To me, if you are going to make certain rules, you should be willing to live by them yourself. If God is not obeying his own rules, then what example is that to his creations? A bad one.

Eg if you don't want your kids to smoke, drink or do drugs then you need to be setting the example. Even if you are somehow more mature or more capable of understanding what you are doing it really should make no difference.

Don't be a hypocrite. Follow your own rules. How can you respect someone who doesn't?

[misterdenison]

[Replying to Princess Luna On The Moon]

As Christians we are to live by the example set by Jesus son of God. He was a pacifist even unto death.

Our Bible says that God is love. And it also says that love fulfills the law.

In answer to why God can kill when we are not suppose to. Consider this do you question a judges right to give the death penalty? Or would you call the executioner a murderer? Our God dose not kill for pleasure or for greed or out of hate like humans do. Our bible says that it is not his will that any should perish but that all should have eternal life, but this is our choice to make not his. I know that you are going to get all up in my face about this but the truth is not a one of the humans that God killed had the love of God ( the love of righteousness) in their heart. Every one of them had rejected him (Love honesty righteousness) or were going to.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 1 by Princess Luna On The Moon]

People follow God not out of love but fear. Fear of what happens after they die.

...

The essence of faith is hope, our unproven (as yet) hope in HIS promises. Therefore our guilt which could cause concern is washed away by faith, allowing us to learn real love, Hope is our salvation, not fear.

Peace, Ted

[OnceConvinced]

As Christians we are to live by the example set by Jesus son of God. He was a pacifist even unto death.

How was he a pacifist when he went on his rampage in the temple, destroying the property of the money changes and generally throwing a big temper tantrum?

In answer to why God can kill when we are not suppose to. Consider this do you question a judges right to give the death penalty? Or would you call the executioner a murderer?

If this judge ordered an entire city (including babies and children) killed for the acts of some of the people, then I would definitely questions that judge. That judge would have to be the most sadistic and immoral judge ever!

Our God dose not kill for pleasure or for greed or out of hate like humans do. Our bible says that it is not his will that any should perish but that all should have eternal life, but this is our choice to make not his.

Great. I choose not to perish but have eternal life. Do you think that's good enough?e

[Wootah]

I never said it earlier but I would argue that all of God's actions are justifiable and explainably justifiable.

The issue isn't that we're not God and God and Man are distinct like Man and Animal, the issue is that we can't see the pros and cons of actions sufficiently to judge properly.

Forgive me for using Hitler as an example but if I could categorically know what Hitler would do and I could stop him I would. Justly we could. But God is more merciful than me.

[Donray]

The god of the bible has murdered millions? How many did god kill by drowning? How many babies did it murder during the purge by drowning? What about unborn babies inside the mother’s womb? And I guess after a deliberate mass murder god sent them to hell for further torture. Or did everyone god murders go the heaven?

So, do all you Christians want to come up with your excesses that makes your god good and just for murdering the whole population except a few? And when you come up with this justification make sure it fits with murdering all the animals except for a few.

Also consider that the god of the bible could have just waved his magic wand and did the same thing without all the drowning. The only reason for drowning was to torture everyone (humans and animals) before they died and went to hell to be tortured for eternity. So, as the bible points out god not only murders, but also like tortures.

So, all you Christians that like to try to justify your god’s murdering ways and how your god likes torture let’s hear all these justifications. When giving your justification for murder and torture consider the following:
Your god also murdered and tortured all the animals except for a few. What did the animals do to deserve your god’s murder and torture?
What did the unborn babies in the mother’s womb do to be murdered?
Your god could have been humane at least in how he murders (again, just wave magic wand and just make people nonsexist). Your god also like to burn people and animals to death which is also torture.
Speaking of torture, why did your god create a place to torture everyone that your does not care for?

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[JonDarbyXIII]

I never said it earlier but I would argue that all of God's actions are justifiable and explainably justifiable.

You may feel that they are justifiable, but you have not shown that the justification is explainable. 'I don't know why it is, it just is' does not explain anything. It suspends all manner of explanation in favor of blind faith.

[ttruscott]

I never said it earlier but I would argue that all of God's actions are justifiable and explainably justifiable.

You may feel that they are justifiable, but you have not shown that the justification is explainable. 'I don't know why it is, it just is' does not explain anything. It suspends all manner of explanation in favor of blind faith.

Justice is explainable as the righteous decree of a properly placed judge against the crimes of a person...and everyone is happy to support justice until it condemns themselves. GOD judges the sins of HIS eternal enemies.

Discipline is explainable as the proper a parental administration of a painful experience to encourage a change in behaviour of a recalcitrant child. GOD disciplines HIS adopted children.

Eminently explainable...

Peace, Ted