Where does God draw the line?

[krazykat]

I have a question, for anyone to answer.
I have been raised in a Christian family and went to Christian school and Church my whole life. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ and I believe all that the Bible says to be true.
Right now I am going through a rough time and not following the "rules" that we are asked to live by.
I know that God forgives me and I also know if I really love him I will just follow His commands.
My question is how does it matter?
If I profess a belief in Christ and have a relationship, yet am drinking, smoking, having sex, will I not spend eternity with Him?
I have never understood this. Where does God draw the line? Because I know we all sin, so is it the intent behind the sin? Or being knowledgable of your sin and doing it over and over?

[harvey1]

I have a question, mostly for Christians to answer.
I have been raised in a Christian family and went to Christian school and Church my whole life. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ and I believe all that the Bible says to be true.
Right now I am going through a rough time and not following the "rules" that we are asked to live by.
I know that God forgives me and I also know if I really love him I will just follow His commands.
My question is how does it matter?
If I profess a belief in Christ and have a relationship, yet am drinking, smoking, having sex, will I not spend eternity with Him?
I have never understood this. Where does God draw the line? Because I know we all sin, so is it the intent behind the sin? Or being knowledgable of your sin and doing it over and over?

In my view God wants us to grow as people. That means that God is more concerned about us than meeting some standard such that God should draw a line. So, God asks us to invest in ourselves to find meaning in life, and not get sidetracked with addictions that can ruin our lives as well as those whom we love. Therefore, I think where God draws the line is in our effort to prove that we are more than just victims of circumstances. God, I think, would like to see us come out of Babylon, meaning to come out of addiction and those things that suppress us from becoming fuller and happier people. Sometimes we are not at that point to where we can live a healthier life away from addictive sins, and I think God understands that. However, no matter where we are in our growth cycle, we should put forth some kind of effort. Perhaps that means being safe about sex if we have sex. That might mean helping someone out of a jam even if we just reinforced our addictive life. Gradually, we need to start living healthy by continually putting ourselves in situations where we can be better people, and better Christians.

People, including Christians, judge on the appearance. Jesus judges for our inward effort to come out of sin anyway possible. Over time, with God's help, we eck our way out of the hole that we find ourselves in. That is what Christianity is, I think.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

God grants forgiveness for all sin, but it is important that we do not take advantage of this forgiveness.

Romans 6:1
What should we say then? Should we continue to sin so that God's kindness will increase? That's unthinkable!

Romans 6:15
Then what is the implication? Should we sin because we are not controlled by laws but are controlled by God's favor? That's unthinkable!Dont you know that if you offer to be someones slave, you must obey that master? Either your master is sin, or your master is obedience. Letting sin by your master leads to death. Letting obedience by your master leads to God's approval.

Faith alone does not save unless it causes us to do good things. In the end I think God judges by our hearts; a matter known by only God and yourself. If you are having doubts about your salvation you may want to consider making some changes in your life. You can't just decide that you are "good enough" and be done with it. As harvey stated, God wants us to progress.

Indeed, it is hard to know how strict the judgement will be. All we can do is study the word and live as best you can accordingly. Certainly, if you give your all, nothing can keep you from heaven.

Therefore, I don't think the question should be how much you can get by with, but how you can make yourself better.

[krazykat]

God grants forgiveness for all sin, but it is important that we do not take advantage of this forgiveness.

Romans 6:1
What should we say then? Should we continue to sin so that God's kindness will increase? That's unthinkable!

Romans 6:15
Then what is the implication? Should we sin because we are not controlled by laws but are controlled by God's favor? That's unthinkable!Dont you know that if you offer to be someones slave, you must obey that master? Either your master is sin, or your master is obedience. Letting sin by your master leads to death. Letting obedience by your master leads to God's approval.

Faith alone does not save unless it causes us to do good things. In the end I think God judges by our hearts; a matter known by only God and yourself. If you are having doubts about your salvation you may want to consider making some changes in your life. You can't just decide that you are "good enough" and be done with it. As harvey stated, God wants us to progress.

Indeed, it is hard to know how strict the judgement will be. All we can do is study the word and live as best you can accordingly. Certainly, if you give your all, nothing can keep you from heaven.

Therefore, I don't think the question should be how much you can get by with, but how you can make yourself better.

yeah, makes sense...i dont know if i am neccesarily interested in knowing how much i can get by with. i guess i just know i am not living the life i should, yet i can't seem to snap out of it...

[Bugmaster]

Therefore, I think where God draws the line is in our effort to prove that we are more than just victims of circumstances. God, I think, would like to see us come out of Babylon, meaning to come out of addiction and those things that suppress us from becoming fuller and happier people.

It's interesting that you mention Babylon; I think there was a tower there once...

As I read the Bible, I get the impression that God doesn't really care what you do, as long as you obey him completely, like a good slave (aforementioned Romans 6:15). Family, friends, science, architecture, literature, drugs, money, charity... none of these things are important, and you should ditch any and all of them, if they're distracting you from your obedience to the Lord.

When you do good things for other people, you must only do so because your Lord commands it, not because it makes you feel good, or because you think it's a good idea in general.

That may sound a bit dismal, but I've just re-read some chapters, and that's the impression I get.

[harvey1]

When you do good things for other people, you must only do so because your Lord commands it, not because it makes you feel good, or because you think it's a good idea in general.

Well, to be technically correct, Christians should do good because Christ lives in them, and this is the "new man" that Paul talked about.

[AlAyeti]

Bugmaster's "impression" of what he read is not well founded on a love relationship. A slave-master relationship yes, but not love.

Christians appreciate the gift they were given in Christ.

An appreciative person is one that wants to help others out of joy and not forced or coerced compulsion.

We go out of our way to exalt heros like firefighters. We tell their stories in movies and print.

Christ is the eternal firefighter.

Snatching us time and again from the fires we build around our own homes. But like a city firefighter we must reach out for His hand.

[QED]

If I profess a belief in Christ and have a relationship, yet am drinking, smoking, having sex, will I not spend eternity with Him?
I have never understood this. Where does God draw the line? Because I know we all sin, so is it the intent behind the sin? Or being knowledgable of your sin and doing it over and over?

I hope nobody minds but I'd like to take this opportunity to present an alternative, Atheistic, view on the matter. All krazykat's concerns are about letting himself down "in the eyes of god". This then leads to an imponderable -- where God draws the line? An alternative is to look at it all from a material realist position. What is addiction? It's a chemical shortcut to reward systems evolved for other purposes. I personally managed to quit cigarettes when I understood this. I made myself feel "silly" by simply "pressing a button" and getting a reward. I realized that we had evolved to earn our rewards. That there are natural highs attainable through achievement is a big part of what drives us through life. Once it became clear how this was an evolved system for "serious" purposes I found it gave me strength to treat it properly. Somewhat akin to understanding how a car works and not therefore thrashing it to death by mistreating it.

Now I confess I still allow myself the odd Cigar, but only as a real treat Sex is another one of those evolved things. It will go down badly with some here I'm sure, but a major prediction of the theory of evolution is that we will all be somewhat keen on the subject. To say that most people will be sex maniacs may not be too much of an exaggeration. But I think that a proper appreciation of the mechanism behind this fact demystifies the subject to a degree that makes it far easier to handle. Taking away guilt and relacing it with self esteem can be just as valid a form of moderation IMHO.

[mishmash]

There are two ways to arrive at a higher moral standard. One is to see how something affects yourself, and one is to see how it affects other people. Generally, we instinctively try to balance the general good with our own personal good. If our own needs are unmet, the needs of others begin to appear less important. Because of this, what benefits one person is usually good for everybody in the long run -- if the benefit is genuine and lasting.

God's will is that none should perish, so it is based on the greatest good for all concerned. There's more to the equation than simply the morality of premarital sex, there's also the question of whether you're honouring your parents/ancestors, and whether you are contributing to a harmful trend in society. You are not only following the examples of others, you are undoubtedly setting an example for the younger generation.

There are many pragmatic drawbacks to breaking the rules against premarital sex, smoking, and drinking. They are inherently risky, and provide reward not associated with a productive action, thus short-circuiting the natural character development process. They also make accepting Christ less attractive for many people, as these things fill their inner longings so that fellowship with God seems unnecessary.

Personally, I am choosing to abide by the rules. You can do what you want.

[lifeisboring]

If God didn't want people to sin, would he have created all these needs and desires?