Jesus and Martyrdom

[beefy]

Hi there, my name is Beefy. I am new to this forum. I read the Bible, and I seek to tell others about Christ and his life and death for us on the cross.

Jesus died for us on the cross. He turned the other cheek. His disciples died for their faith, and most of them were martyred. Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek. Jesus turned the other cheek himself when he was flogged and beaten and crucified. Jesus told us to make disciples of all nations. As Christians, we are also His disciples. The apostle Paul urged us to be imitators of Christ.

Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, and to love our enemies. He taught us to bless those who cursed us. Jesus loved everyone. He never hurt anyone. Neither did His disciples. In fact, they were faithful to Him, even when they were persecuted and killed for His sake.

Jesus told us that the greatest commandment is to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. He defined our neighbors as everyone around us, friend or foe. To love even our enemies, even those that seek our destruction.

Jesus defined what love is. He said "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13


As Christians, we seek to be called friends of God, as King David was, and there is nothing that shows our love for Him more than our willingness to die for Him.

When one of Christs' disciples cut of the ear of the guard, Jesus healed the guard and told the disciple, "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Matthew 26:52

Jesus told us what is to befall those that defend their lives or the lives of others with a sword or other weapon. The disciple was reacting in "self-defense," and the defense of Jesus. Jesus rebuked Him and told Him that those who do so will die in the same manner.

When John was writing to the angel of the church of Smyrna in Revelation 2:10, he said, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."John wrote to endure, and be faithful, continuing in meekness, gentleness, and love, even unto death. He said that if they were faithful that they would receive a crown of life in heaven.

Jesus taught us that the eye for an eye philosophy was wrong, and that we are to feed and give drink to our enemies, and that by doing so we were "heaping coals upon their heads" figuratively. Killing them with kindness, so to speak.

Additionally, Jesus said,

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Mark 13:13

He told us that He would save those that died for Him, and those who endured unto the end of this life.

He told us that, "He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it." Matthew 10:39

"Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it." Luke 17:33

Why do some Americans and people of other nationalities seek to save their life through violence?
Why do they not turn the other cheek? Why are they afraid?

Don't they know that "perfect love casteth out fear?"

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18

The love of God casts out fear of men. "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Why fear those that have to power to end life? Fear God.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28

It is imperative to remember what was written. Do not repay evil for evil. "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. Romans 12:17"

I will give an example. If someone kills one's family members inside the world trade center, is one therefore justified in taking an "eye for an eye," and indirectly killing their family members and/or the perpetrators of the crime by repeated bombings, thereby ending their life. Is that would Jesus would have done? Jesus would have died for someone in a heartbeat, but he would never kill any human on this planet. He loved them all regardless of their sin. And he told his disciples to love them as well Just as we are told to be "imitators of Christ," we are also told to imitate his command to turn the other cheek when struck, regardless of the situation. We are commanded not to murder, and hate. It is inconceivable that any human could kill another human out of love. It is not Biblical.

Just like the Bible tells us not to judge anyone. "Judge not and ye shall not be judged."

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven" Luke 6:37

We are not to judge other people, at all, not ever. If someone kills or rapes someone, then God says "Vengeance is mine. I will repay."

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:19


"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God." 1 Corinthians 4:5

We are not supposed to judge anything until the Lord comes back again. That is what we are commanded to do. And Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15

Policemen, elected officials, and military soldiers are not above God's Law. They are humans too, and Jesus was speaking to them as well. Forgiveness for any trespass by others is possible through Christ, for with God all things are possible. If they seek to be a disciple of Jesus, a Christian, then they must also love as Jesus loved, and not judge anyone before the time. Also, Jesus nor His disciples never killed anyone, but rather died for their faith in God, so too should we.

I am ready and willing to listen to any different perspectives on this issue. As a Christian, it is not my place to judge. Who are we to judge?

God bless

[McCulloch]

Hi there, my name is Beefy. I am new to this forum. I read the Bible, and I seek to tell others about Christ and his life and death for us on the cross.

Welcome Beefy
I have been here a while. I have read the Bible and I seek to encourage others to think carefully and critically about what the Bible and the promoters of the Bible teach. We will probably be on opposite sides of debate.

Jesus died for us on the cross.

I don't believe you. Please try to provide evidence that Jesus died and that his death was somehow intended to benefit me.

Why do some Americans and people of other nationalities seek to save their life through violence?

Probably because Americans have never been a nation of God. The Declaration of Independence, for a start, proclaims a message contrary to the message of Paul.

Why do they not turn the other cheek? Why are they afraid?

Experience can be a better teacher than dogma.

Don't they know that "perfect love casteth out fear?"

Even Christians don't know this. Why do they keep bringing up the threat of eternal torment attempting to convert by fear?

Policemen, elected officials, and military soldiers are not above God's Law. They are humans too, and Jesus was speaking to them as well.

Is it possible for soldiers, police officers, judges and jail guards to do their jobs properly and still follow the discipline of Christ?

Jesus also said something about wealth and giving. Is is possible for disciples of Christ to accumulate wealth? Jesus taught about not planning for the future, but to trust in God to provide. The instruction and example is for the community of believers to care for and to provide for each other. Is it reasonable for a follower of the Way to take out insurance?

But, I'm getting off topic. The idea of Christian passivism has a long and honorable history, going back to the first century. Various efforts by Christian theologians to reconcile the use of force and violence with Jesus' explicit and clear instructions always strike me as being somewhat forced and going against the intent of the original message.

[Mydian]

i just really don't see the point of saying you believe something and it automatically becomes true for everyone. You have your opinion and i can disagree with that opinion. You can quote the bible all you want but I dont view the bible the same as you. I don't see it as some inviolate script that cannot be questioned or debated. I also don't see it as the word of god. Word of man certainly, but not the word of god.