Is killing non-human animals for food wrong?

[Q]

While I have never been a vegetarian in the past, I find it harder and harder to morally justify eating meat. I suppose on the most fundamental level I have a problem with living things suffering, a condition readily apparent with the treatment of many cows, chickens, etc.

(1) Should humans avoid eating meat when the circumstances surrounding the animals' habitat cause suffering (e.g., baby cows kept in small confined spaces for purposes of veal production)? If it is okay, why?

(2) If animals do not suffer during the process (free range farming perhaps?), is killing them for food okay? Why or why not?

Please avoid discussing whether you think meat is necessary or not to a healthy diet, as I am really not concerned with that issue.

[janavoss]

From a Biblical perspective (Gen 1:29), prior to The Fall, both humankind and animals were only given seed-bearing plants and fruit trees for food and grass and plants for animals. Meat-eating was a concession that was only granted after Adam and Eve's fall from grace but was not included originally .

Therefore, I can see a Biblical argument for following a vegetarian diet.

How can you see a Biblical argument for following a vegetarian diet when just above you stated that there is a concession for eating meat?

If there is a concession for eating meat, how do you make an argument for a vegetarian diet?

Precisely because eating meat is a concession. It was not practised prior to the fall. A person could make a biblical argument that being vegetarian is therefore better, in the sense that it is a step closer to the way things were before the fall.

Would the argument be:
According to the Bible, it is ok to eat meat, and you should not eat meat.

No, the argument would be:
According to the Bible, it is ok to eat meat, but not eating meat may be the better way to go.
Along the same lines as Paul's statement that "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial." A Christian who is vegetarian is not somehow more "saved" than a Christian who eats meat, but there may still be things that are beneficial about being vegetarian. Cultivating more awareness of animial suffering and compassion for other living creatures, for example.

[Clownboat]

From a Biblical perspective (Gen 1:29), prior to The Fall, both humankind and animals were only given seed-bearing plants and fruit trees for food and grass and plants for animals. Meat-eating was a concession that was only granted after Adam and Eve's fall from grace but was not included originally .

Therefore, I can see a Biblical argument for following a vegetarian diet.

How can you see a Biblical argument for following a vegetarian diet when just above you stated that there is a concession for eating meat?

If there is a concession for eating meat, how do you make an argument for a vegetarian diet?

Precisely because eating meat is a concession. It was not practised prior to the fall. A person could make a biblical argument that being vegetarian is therefore better, in the sense that it is a step closer to the way things were before the fall.

You want me to believe that T-Rex was a vegetarian? I think I would have to check my brain at the door to believe that one.

Would the argument be:
According to the Bible, it is ok to eat meat, and you should not eat meat.

No, the argument would be:
According to the Bible, it is ok to eat meat, but not eating meat may be the better way to go.
Along the same lines as Paul's statement that "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial." A Christian who is vegetarian is not somehow more "saved" than a Christian who eats meat, but there may still be things that are beneficial about being vegetarian. Cultivating more awareness of animial suffering and compassion for other living creatures, for example.

So... according to the Bible, it is ok to eat meat, but it may be better to not eat meat.

That sounds like the Bible I know and is just further proof that you can make the Bible say just about anything.

[janavoss]

You want me to believe that T-Rex was a vegetarian? I think I would have to check my brain at the door to believe that one.

I'm not asking you to check your brain anywhere. If you try to read the story literally it doesn't even make much sense. In Gen. 2 it says that prior to having someone to work the fields (the creation of man) no shrub or plant had yet sprung up from the earth. So what did the animals eat before that? Did plants and animals only exist in the garden that God planted, but not the earth at large? And where do the dinosaurs fit into the timeline? Who knows, that's not the point.
The point is that in Gen. 9 when the concession for eating meat was given, God also stated that lifeblood is not a trivial thing, even the lifeblood of animals. So it's OK to eat meat, but be conscious of what you are doing when you make your decision.

So... according to the Bible, it is ok to eat meat, but it may be better to not eat meat.

Yes. There are things in the bible that are left up to conscience, not everything is 'do this, don't do that, or you're going to hell'. Paul had some things to say about an issue in his day - eating meat that had previously been sacrificed to idols. For him it was a non-issue, it didn't bother his conscience one bit. But he understood that for others it was a big problem, and he would have rather given up meat entirely than cause another to stumble. The council in Jerusalem later decided it was in the best interest of all the gentile churches to avoid eating meat sacrificed to idols. The real issue was unity, which was another thing Paul had a lot to say about. It's not always a matter of sin vs. not sin. Sometimes the only 'right' answer is the one that leads to unity.

That sounds like the Bible I know and is just further proof that you can make the Bible say just about anything.

Not really. You can't make the Bible say Christians who eat meat are not really Christians. You can't make it say that Christians who are vegetarians are not really Christians. It doesn't say that.

[Clownboat]

You want me to believe that T-Rex was a vegetarian? I think I would have to check my brain at the door to believe that one.

I'm not asking you to check your brain anywhere.

Good. Now let's check for accuracy.
Was T-Rex a vegetarian or not?

I suppose I could be entertained to discuss the Genesis myth, but it seems nonsensical to do so until we address this:
- DNA analysis points strongly to European Neanderthals and humans from Africa cross breeding. This would require either that Adam and Eve be dated very far back, before human mental attributes could reasonably be argued, or that the highly explanatory African origin model for Homo Sapiens Sapiens be rejected.

If you try to read the story literally it doesn't even make much sense.

Unless we have a complete disregard for science, I don't see how this story makes sense, literally or not.

That sounds like the Bible I know and is just further proof that you can make the Bible say just about anything.

Not really. You can't make the Bible say Christians who eat meat are not really Christians. You can't make it say that Christians who are vegetarians are not really Christians. It doesn't say that.

Not the post for this discussion, but entertaining just the same:

[janavoss]

Good. Now let's check for accuracy.
Was T-Rex a vegetarian or not?

I'm gonna go with 'not'.

I suppose I could be entertained to discuss the Genesis myth, but it seems nonsensical to do so until we address this:
- DNA analysis points strongly to European Neanderthals and humans from Africa cross breeding. This would require either that Adam and Eve be dated very far back, before human mental attributes could reasonably be argued, or that the highly explanatory African origin model for Homo Sapiens Sapiens be rejected.

OK...so...now what?
Seems like we may be at the end of the discussion unless there was a question or something else that needs a response in there.

I didn't click on the link but I'm sure the video was entertaining.
Have a good evening.

[Clownboat]

Good. Now let's check for accuracy.
Was T-Rex a vegetarian or not?

I'm gonna go with 'not'.

I suppose I could be entertained to discuss the Genesis myth, but it seems nonsensical to do so until we address this:
- DNA analysis points strongly to European Neanderthals and humans from Africa cross breeding. This would require either that Adam and Eve be dated very far back, before human mental attributes could reasonably be argued, or that the highly explanatory African origin model for Homo Sapiens Sapiens be rejected.

OK...so...now what?
Seems like we may be at the end of the discussion unless there was a question or something else that needs a response in there.

I didn't click on the link but I'm sure the video was entertaining.
Have a good evening.

At this point, I see no "now what".
Unless you have further evidence to look at (or modify the story), the Genesis story seems to be nothing but one of hundreds of man made creation stories.

[lafiera88]

While I have never been a vegetarian in the past, I find it harder and harder to morally justify eating meat. I suppose on the most fundamental level I have a problem with living things suffering, a condition readily apparent with the treatment of many cows, chickens, etc.
Biblically speaking its not immoral to eat, I wouldn't tell anyone to eat or not to eat meat because if they don't have the faith to eat it I dont want to cause them to sin because whatever isn't faith is sin. Romans 14:20-23New King James Version (NKJV)
20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[a] 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[c]

Footnotes:
(1) Should humans avoid eating meat when the circumstances surrounding the animals' habitat cause suffering (e.g., baby cows kept in small confined spaces for purposes of veal production)? If it is okay, why?
People don't generally think about that when they're buying a steak they're probably thinking "I want a steak".

(2) If animals do not suffer during the process (free range farming perhaps?), is killing them for food okay? Why or why not?
The alternative is going out and killing animals yourself if you want meat, personally I don't have a problem hunting, I mean of I want elk, bear or dear its not as if I can go pick it up at Walmart.

Please avoid discussing whether you think meat is necessary or not to a healthy diet, as I am really not concerned with that issue.

[Clownboat]

Biblically speaking its not immoral to eat, I wouldn't tell anyone to eat or not to eat meat because if they don't have the faith to eat it I dont want to cause them to sin because whatever isn't faith is sin. Romans 14:20-23New King James Version (NKJV)
20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[a] 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[c]

See the bold. ('because whatever isn't faith is sin')
- Can you explain why such a statement would be true?
- If you study planetary orbits and know when an eclipse is going to happen, please explain why that would be a sin.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Q]

Is killing non-human animals for food wrong?

No, I don't believe so.

(2) If animals do not suffer during the process (free range farming perhaps?), is killing them for food okay? Why or why not? .

For me it is because I base the bible gives humans the right to kill animals for food (as long as the blood is not consumed).

GENESIS 9: 3,4
Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. 4"Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Yahu]

[Replying to post 1 by Q]

Certain animals were created for the purpose of being food, ie 'clean animals'. There is no justification for being a vegetarian.