Is there ever a justified case for adultery?

[ssnapier]

This is a question that I am sure will get some people fired up so please remain calm. I just want to know if you can see any scenario in which adultery would be justified.

[ShadowRishi]

I am not suggesting that you ought to keep trusting someone who has betrayed you, that would be folly (or as you suggest - suicide).
Do you trust your Mom and I? (let's, for the sake of argument, assume you trust your Mom implicitly, and me very little, as I am a stranger).
If you need someone to look after 25,000$ cash, would you just hand it to your Mom and say "please hold this for me"? Would you do the same for me?
I think you would trust your Mom just on her word, and for me, you would require a contract (since there is no reason to trust me).
If your Mom then lost the cash in a mugging, would you believe her story, or ask to see a police report?

I would trust that she'd done it... Do you notice the large, disparaging difference here? She did not choose to get mugged; she chose to have an abortion. She did tell me about getting mugged; she didn't tell you about the pregnancy until she was having the kid.

If you do not feel it is your right to know if you are a father or not --then I'm afraid we'll simply have to agree to disagree. If you think it is acceptable for her to tell you whenever she likes --then I'm afraid we still disagree. She should tell you within a week or finding out that she's pregnant.

What if it was me?
The thread asked if anyone was justified (lets just say 'just') in having an affair. I say yes, simply because someone wouldn't risk all that is risked in such a venture without thinking it was justified. Only YOU are in charge of your genitals:)

I disagree; a relationship is about trust. Placing trust in someone means that you don't have to ask someone to find the truth; not that they may never tell you the truth. Also, "personal horniness" does not make up a justification; yes, you control your genitalia, but you also are responsible for what you do with them. If you have a commitment with someone else and then ignore that commitment --you have must face the repercussions.


Yes, everyone has the liberty to do as they please; no one, however, has the ability to never face the consequences of their actions.

[Chancellor]

This is a question that I am sure will get some people fired up so please remain calm. I just want to know if you can see any scenario in which adultery would be justified.

No.

[Darren]

I was mostly trying to point out that with your Mom, you trust her. With me, since there is not a high level of trust, you must have contracts and such.

[ShadowRishi]

I was mostly trying to point out that with your Mom, you trust her. With me, since there is not a high level of trust, you must have contracts and such.

Okay, but that still doesn't lead us to the notion that we should allow for our partners to go out, get abortions, and then never tell us. And if we should happen to find out, we should just shrug and ignore it.

[Darren]

I was mostly trying to point out that with your Mom, you trust her. With me, since there is not a high level of trust, you must have contracts and such.

Okay, but that still doesn't lead us to the notion that we should allow for our partners to go out, get abortions, and then never tell us. And if we should happen to find out, we should just shrug and ignore it.

Honestly, if someone is getting an abortion, that is only the business of one person, and she doesn't have to answer to anyone but herself for it.
I don't see how it could be anyones business but hers. If she were required to tell someone (say, the father), he might try to force her to keep it. Slavery went out of style quite awhile ago. Women have autonomy now.

[ShadowRishi]

Honestly, if someone is getting an abortion, that is only the business of one person, and she doesn't have to answer to anyone but herself for it.
I don't see how it could be anyones business but hers. If she were required to tell someone (say, the father), he might try to force her to keep it. Slavery went out of style quite awhile ago. Women have autonomy now.

It's my soon-to-be-child as well, and I do --if we're going out-- have a say in the matter, as long as she wishes to remain with me, that is.

I'm not making her my slave; that's an appeal to emotion. We have to give things up to be in a relationship, some of those things are personal --sexual, emotional, or otherwise.

Honestly, if your partner was really insecure about your relationship with her, would you go about having sex with other women and letting her know about it? After all, you are not her slave, and she has no right to tell you what you can do with your body.


Obviously, you're free to do whatever you want; my partner is free to get an abortion (legally, anyways). I'll repeat this once more:

Everyone is free to do whatever they want; no one can, honestly stop them. A wife has no ability to stop her husband from cheating on her. That husband, though, cannot escape the consequences of his actions; if he cheats on his wife, he will face the consequences of losing his wife. Is his wife being a selfish prick for wanting him to not cheat on her? Is she being his slave driver? No, but they are a couple; they lose autonomy when they become two. He is not free to sex up anyone he wants (if he wants to remain in the relationship, that is), just as she is not free to do anything she wants to their soon-to-be-child. Unity is not obtained through autonomy.

[Darren]

Honestly, if someone is getting an abortion, that is only the business of one person.

It's my soon-to-be-child as well, and I do --if we're going out-- have a say in the matter, as long as she wishes to remain with me, that is.

I sure hope you aren't saying here that she has some obligation to incubate your contribution.

Honestly, if your partner was really insecure about your relationship with her, would you go about having sex with other women and letting her know about it? After all, you are not her slave, and she has no right to tell you what you can do with your body.

I don't understand the question.

Obviously, you're free to do whatever you want; my partner is free to get an abortion (legally, anyways).

Are you implying here that in ways other than legally, she is not free? Care to elaborate?

I'll repeat this once more:

Everyone is free to do whatever they want; no one can, honestly stop them. A wife has no ability to stop her husband from cheating on her. That husband, though, cannot escape the consequences of his actions; if he cheats on his wife, he will face the consequences of losing his wife. Is his wife being a selfish prick for wanting him to not cheat on her? Is she being his slave driver? No, but they are a couple; they lose autonomy when they become two. He is not free to sex up anyone he wants (if he wants to remain in the relationship, that is), just as she is not free to do anything she wants to their soon-to-be-child. Unity is not obtained through autonomy.

I don't see how this affects wether someone is just in adultering. They may, the very next day, dissolve their union, but the decision was still justified.

[McCulloch]

It's my soon-to-be-child as well, ...

Children are not property that belongs to someone. It may be your child in the same sense that your brother is your brother but not in the sense that you own the child.

[ShadowRishi]

I sure hope you aren't saying here that she has some obligation to incubate your contribution.

She has some obligation to me; if we are truly a couple, then we need to make this decision, not her.

I don't understand the question.

I'll think of a simpler analogy then, hopefully I'll have one by next post.

Are you implying here that in ways other than legally, she is not free? Care to elaborate?

Obviously freedom is not only a political or legal entity.

Are you free to neglect your child? Obviously there's no law that makes you play with your kid. That child, however, also has the freedom to disown you or find new parents; or, at least, has the freedom to hate you.


Do you see what I am saying?

I don't see how this affects wether someone is just in adultering. They may, the very next day, dissolve their union, but the decision was still justified.

I'm not specifically discussing adultery, but relationship trust and the case of your partner not telling you about your own child's existence, or aborting your fetus without telling you anything.

It's my soon-to-be-child as well, ...

Children are not property that belongs to someone. It may be your child in the same sense that your brother is your brother but not in the sense that you own the child.

This seems to be a silly conclusion from my statement, McCulloch. Are you not your father's son? (Is not your father your father?

I mean it is my child --as in, my son or daughter-- not my slave.

It's common English vernacular to say "she's my sister" and not mean "she's my slave, I own her."

[Darren]

Obviously freedom is not only a political or legal entity.

Are you free to neglect your child?

Yes. What has that to do with anything?

Obviously there's no law that makes you play with your kid. That child, however, also has the freedom to disown you or find new parents; or, at least, has the freedom to hate you.

Right, and would be justified in doing so.

I mean it is my child --as in, my son or daughter-- not my slave.

It's common English vernacular to say "she's my sister" and not mean "she's my slave, I own her."

You are mistaken again here. What it is is her decision to incubate or not. Once the child is born, you may have some claim, but until then, it is not a child - to anyone buy the pregnant woman.
You never get to tell a woman she must have a baby - you aren't qualified to give that advice.