Of course it matters if He's all-powerful. He's right when He says He's right if he's the creator of the definition of right. In that case - it's impossible for Him to be wrong... and it so happens that that's the case. He did not create you with the rebeliousness to disagree... you've been deceived into doing so.
Here you are fallaciously assumng the maxium "might makes right." WHat ought to be is what God says because God is superpowerful, and his power makes him right. He's the "creator of right." We only know this, however, because he says so. If we take this logically to another step, anyone who can trick anyone else, without him knowing, that he's a God, is the voice of right/wrong due to divine power.
In this case, the Emperor of Japan was always right, since he was an
infallible GOD Emperor of Man.
We already know it's possible for God to be wrong, since most of the Bible is the word of God, and a considerable ammount is directly contrary to logic and fact.
God man man in his own image, so man as he stands now is the image of God. We are jealous, mean, greedy and we are driven by the Hegelian desire for Recognition. We are God. God's "mistake" was making people too much like himself.
If God were quick to wrath... you and I would already be dead long ago. You even being able to say that proves it wrong, so long as we assume God does in fact exist.
Millions already suffered his quick wrath. He figured out eventually that he made a mistake in Exodus, when he unequivocally stated: I repent the evil which I was to do unto my people."
He made a mistake, he was wrong. HE was sorry for his EVIL. He recognized it's silly to get worship through complete fear and evil, so he brought a new figure into the picture-- jesus. Instead of complete tyranny, the "improved" God still fufills his desire for recognition, but this time through more "lenient," although still arbitrary, cruel powers. He still threatens you to behave, and if you don't, you will be cast into the burning pit of hell.
God's laws are built on the fallacy of appeal to authority and power. I say what's right because I am bigger and badder than you--so stuff it if you don't like it peon.
We aren't dead because God finally wised-up and learned that it's not good policy to kill off your worshipers. It makes you look bad, and in the divine struggle for Recognition (just like the earthly one), he wants not only to look GOOD, but powerful.
There is no point in being allpowerful if no one cares about you--he NEEDS that recognition to fufill his supersized ego.
Speaking of justice, anyone that would slander a perfect and blameless God to begin with is not good.
He's neither Good, nor perfect, nor blamless.
He commits evil, to which he admits. He repented, he said he was sorry and he sought forgiveness. Perfect beings don't make mistakes--God admitted he did.
Perfect, allpowerful beings can do anything. THere are many things God cannot do.
God is a hypocritical mob boss. Slander is only slander when it's not true. I have yet to lie about anything.
What are His actions? Are you judging from the Bible? If you are... try reading the rest of it. There's more.
I have read it. I am going from the Bible. His evil actions are obvious to anyone who's not borderline retarded. There are few passages in the Bible which DON'T show his cruelty, his hate, his evil, and his authority-abuse.
I believe you when you say He is evil... the nature of anything evil is to reject what is good. So... either you're evil and God is good... or God is evil and you're good, right? Hmmm - well, I've made my choice. 8)
Good. Follow an evil, petty, cruel, jealous God. That's your decision *wink,* I will follow my own logic, morality, and intelligence. I am better than God. And not, it's not black and white like that. God has done SOME good things, but he's not good overall.
I can agree with part of your statement if you can amend it to say that you know nothing about the reality of God. I might be able to agree with that... but I certainly do know about the reality of God. You can't speak for me on that one.
You have never met God, and you never will. I now of God only from the Bible, and he's evil in it. Actions speak to character: God does far more evil than good.
I don't know where all this hatred for God is coming from. Why do you expect that He should serve you? What have you ever done for Him? Anything?
I typically hate evil tin-pot dictators. I don't care if they think they are allpowerful super Gods or not. Evil is Evil. God is evil, therefore I don't support him.
He shouldn't serve me. No one should serve anyone. Slavery of rational, autonomous beings is wrong. God doens't think so, because God (surpise) is an evil Dictator. Evil Dictators rarely think what they do is wrong, and they justify it with "I am more powerful than you are, so shuddup.
I don't have to do anything for him. Morality is not reliant upon recieving. He should be good for the sake of being good or to make good consequences. God's version of morality seems to be "Ethical Egoism."
"God:" Mememememmememememememememememmeme Mememem I mememe III mememem I mememme I.
He can only be good if you are his servant and you do everything he says. There need not be reciprocation. No one asked him to do anything. HE did it upon himself. If he doesn't like it, tough.
Are you taking Satan's side on this one? It seems to me that you are. Would you consider yourself a Satanist if you believed in the two beings of God and Satan?
From a literary perspective yes, I am taking Satan's side. No I am not a Satanist. I am an Atheist. Satan has done nothing wrong and has harmed no one. God cannot say the same. Satan is a morally superior being to God.
I see Satan as the Divine Savior--the dispenser of Logic, Morality, and Liberal Freedoms. He's the underdog, the anti-hero. I think they also got Heavan and Hell mixed up.
Being with God as his slave for all eternity seems like HELL to me, while being away from him with Satan--intelligent, rational beings, is heaven.
I would rather not serve tea and crumpets to God for millenia.
Would you like butter or jam with that My Lord? Jam? I am sorry, we only have apricot.....noooooooooo please don't send me to Hell!
God backs everything up that He says - word for word.
He backs it up with nothing more than his...word, which I find worthless. Logically, it IS worthless. YOu cannot believe something just because his propaganda says so.
His forgiveness is shown in His mercy.[/quote]
Forgiveness? I find no forgiveness. Don't get me started on God's mercy and forgiveness. Its nothing more than a combination of trickery and God's narcissitic desire for recognition.
Most people don't realize, or take the time to realize that God's giving forgiveness for.....what? What for is he giving forgiveness? Let's analyse this.
God makes man...Man is supposed to serve God like a slave. Man disobeys and wants freedom. GOd punishes man, then repents and "forgives" him for not desiring to be a slave, rather free. Wow, God is essentially forgiving you for wanting to be free and autonomous.
His mercy comes after he just murdered MILLIONS of people through his deliberate wrath, his torture, and his hate. His mercy is nothing and it's worth nothing. He can keep it.
How bout I beat your head in 500 times, tie you up, and then beat you some more, and then come back and say " I forgive you." Would ya still think I was merciful and good?
His promises are shown through His answer to prayer and through the deposit of the Holy Spirit.
Yes. HE promises not to kill you, maime you, or hurt you like he did in the past, but he promises He will still send you to a firey hell. Whadda nice g uy!
If God told me that 1+1 base 10 was 434, it wouldn't violate any mathematical laws because it would be true. God wrote mathematics. He's the Great Author of everything. You're example is void because it's an impossibility. He never lies and He never deceives.
God is under the rules of math as well as the laws of nature. Nothing is above it. God didn't write mathematics. You got zero proof of that, and according to Occam's Razor, the "God did it." Doesn't hold up. It's not even scientifically valid. YOu can't test it. It's borderline usless. It's very useless Rhetoric.
Actually, the Bible specificial states God lies and deceives. YOu have not read your Bible mister. I suggest you go back and read the KJV and the Old Testament. YOu will find he lies.
Tigerlilly wrtoe: That's only what you believe because you buy into the one-sided Bible. Satanists will believe the opposite, and there is no neutral standpoint. I won't believe what God tells me, because there is no verification of what he says.
Wrong. That's only what I believe because that's what Jesus has proven to me, beyond the possibility of a doubt.
Wrong. I say your wrong. My pink God bunny rabbit from Vega told me so. My bunny rabbit knows all and can beat your God up, therefore he's always right. Booya. Of course, I can only take my pink bunny rabbits word, I have no neutral truth.
Tigerlilly wrote: It's like being Kim Jhon Ill's communist propaganda--he is the infallible, allknowning supreme father. They don't know he lies, because they have been brainwashed. The same goes for 50-60's China (Chairman Mau's little red book).
First you argue in favor of philosophies like Kim Jhon Ill's
When have I ever argued in favour of Kim Jhong Ill? I don't recall that ever. You made that up. Nice ad Hominem.
... now you argue against it and try to relate it to God?
I never argued in favour of the former, but inthe fact that they act similiarly and are not trustworthy. Strawman....get yer stawman here. Call me when you're done beating it to death.
I'm sorry, but God is nothing like Kim Jhon Ill. It sickens me that you would even use His name in relation to such a man. Where are you getting this from?
I don't care if it sickens you. God sickens me. We're even. Now lets get passed your opinion of emotion, which is irrelevant distractor material. God is evil, just like Kimmyboy. However, Kimmyboy has killed fewer people than God, and he has done less wrong, so actually, God is worse than COmmunist Kim Jhong Ill.
In fact, you have brought this discussion full circle - to the original fallacy. You're examples are all completely invalid. God is nothing like us limited humans. We are like Him... but He is so much more. The entire brainwashing argument is so weak, but it has a negative ring to it and it seems to be catchy because everyone loves to say it. Can you say that anyone exists at all who is not brainwashed by something? Are you brainwashed?
Nothing has come full circle. You just think it has. You are basing your opinion on an imaginary figure whom you know only as a result of his word. For the sake of argument, lets pretend He exists.
You use the argument from Ignorance to support your case, which is fallacious. We are "less knowledgeable" than God, so we cannot have any say. We won't know what the truth is, so God must obviously be right because we can't understand him. That's truely innane rhetoric. Rational people go by what evidence is at hand, and in the Bible, we see atrocity, evil, hate, and violence. We see God as an evil dictator bully mobboss.
We see only what he wants us to see, and it's reasonable that he could be lying, especially due to his personality and ego complex.
And no. I am not brainwashed. God is the Divine Brainwashesr. HE rights a book and you suck up every word like it's automatic truth, even though God's evil, untrusthwory, and has lied before. Satan has visually done nothing wrong other than what GOd says, and even what God says he's done isn't bad compared to what God has done. God is A-ok though, cause might makes right. HE can do whatever he wants (eat babies, drown kittens etc). It's ok. Christian Apologism does get old after a while.
I wrote:
And that may be because neutral does not actually exist as applied to the larger divine picture.
Tigerlilly wrote: I don't believe God is good. I am fundamentally different from you. I don't take what people say at Face Value. I won't believe what someone tells me about others untill I meet them myself or have credible evidence for it. I don't judge others based on what someone's enemy says about him.
Whether or not God is good is not a matter of belief. It is a fact that God is good - and there is knowledge that He is good.
God is evil--that is a fact. He lies, he's egomaniacle, he kills, he murders, he rapes, he pillages and he sanctions wars of aggression. He supports slavery, and he even enslaved his own Angels and then made war against them. He is the creator of Evil.
I don't need to even defend my personal character against you. My history speaks for itself. God is the one thing in my life that I can say with complete confidence that I have NOT taken at face value.
Useless appeal to personal opinion/experience.
Knowledge of the Christ and Faith in Him is something very sophisticated and it is the deepest Truth that any being can ever come to.
Useless appeal to subjective opinion and experience
Tigerlilly wrote: Everything isn't black/white.
Correction: Many people wish it weren't.
Refusal to recognize bifurcation fallacy.
Or you believe what Satan wants you to believe. I suppose those two are interchangable though.
No, Since I have gotten no word from Satan, only GOd in the Bible. I dont't believe what Satan says either, but then again, I have never heard from Satan. I have read of God, however, and I know enough not to trust him. I also know its unreasonable to take ONE POV.
I have no idea where you get these ideas from or what you feed these thoughts of yours with, but I'm sorry. These ideas are deeply rooted in deceit.
[/quote]
The Bible and evidence of behavior shown by his followers. It's nearly mindless Zeal. No, they aren't rooted in deceit, they are rooted in boredom, hatred, and digust. I am sorry for you as well. You don't know how much God's getting off at this.
Hah. I honestly don't know what you're so proud about. You had your beliefs from the outset. Anything I say makes no difference. People believe what they want to believe, regardless of what's really there.
ATTENTION--POT TO KETTLE--YOU ARE BLACK..
The Bible does not get that specific, and there is a difference.
If anyone captured anything from this discussion... it was me watching you justify Satanism and relating God to Kim Jhon Ill.
Cause GOd is like Kim Jhong Ill, only worse, and Satanism...nothing's wrong with Satan. He's the hero of the Bible.
<phew> Telegram for Mr. George Orwell......
